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Slavery IS Regulated in the Bible!

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by cvanwey, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    As long as you were/are a Hebrew.

    Otherwise, it would appear 'God" allows/sanctions/condones a lifetime of slavery, with virtually no restrictions in 'punishment', just short of death.

    As a disclaimer, this topic would never rear it's 'ugly' head, if there existed even one verse in the Bible stating something to the affect of, 'don't own humans as property.' Or, never mentioned slavery at all. But instead, it provides the contrary.

    As another disclaimer, I'm not addressing the 'moral' implications. I'm instead mentioning this topic because when 'slavery' is thrown out there, from a non-believer, the believer quite often uses the word 'regulate'. Which implies, at least to me, that the believer too does not agree with 'slavery' and is using 'apologetics tactics'.

    I know this topic is anything but new, but I have to bring it up, because it would more likely appear that such verses were written by humans, whom simply passed them off as God pronouncements. Which is yet another reason non-believers can so easily read from this book and not take it too seriously.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    What sanctions of slavery did you have in mind?
     
  3. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    As it relates to 'official permission or approval for an action'. Pretty much synonymous with allowing or condoning.

    You being close to a seminary graduate, I trust you know all about it :)
     
  4. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Things were definitely different back then, but slavery wasn't racist. God never said that skin color mattered (I know that creepy people disagree).
     
  5. gaara4158

    gaara4158 I prefer you trust your reason.

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    Is slavery OK as long as it's not based on skin color?
     
  6. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    God's law is forever. Where in the NT does it then state, in the future, to no longer own slaves? Jesus never mentions as such. He instead tells slaves to obey their masters.

    Furthermore, owning someone as property, is owning someone as property. Especially when you are also given 'carte blanche' to beat them, just short of death, (as long as they are not Hebrew). So yes, it would appear the Bible too 'may' present racism, in the sense that if you are not a Jew, all bets are off.
     
  7. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    I'd like for you to mention a specific passage that we can look at together.
     
  8. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    Why? Are you going to 'teach' me as to why I'm reading them 'wrong'?

    We both know which verses and chapters we are talking about...

    My point is, that when a skeptic like myself reads such passages, it appears that slaver owners, or people in favor of slave ownership, wrote such verses claiming to be 'stamped and approved' by God.
     
  9. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    A common strategy for Bible critics here is to make the issues a little more overblown than they really are. A thorough examination of the texts that actually talk about slavery goes a long way to bringing balance to the discussion.
     
  10. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    I have had many 'balanced' discussions. My conclusions are as follows:

    - If you are not a Hebrew, you can be considered property for life.
    - If you are not a Hebrew, you can be beaten for life.
    - If you are not a Hebrew, you can be inherited until death.
    - The Bible does not define the term 'slavery'. Hence, a slave is a slave, with no 'it was just different back then' rationale.
    - Jesus later comes along and does not further add such caveats, but instead 'reinforces' the topic, with no further definition of what a 'slave' is and isn't.

    It stands, with reason, to conclude, a Hebrew, or someone instructed by an authoritative Hebrew, wrote such verses, and stated they came from a higher authority to make it 'acceptable' law practices.

    This is (my) conclusion after looking at the topic from many viewpoints over the last couple of years.
     
  11. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    Ok thanks!
     
  12. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    You are quite welcome sir.
     
  13. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Golden Rule.
     
  14. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Or slavery came as a curse of sin, along with thorns and pain during child birth? Is there any race of man that has not practiced slavery (this includes slavery outside of what we read in Scripture)?
     
  15. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    I'm a slave to Christ.
     
  16. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    20 Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called. 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Do not let it concern you, but if you can gain your freedom, take the opportunity. 22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ’s slave. -- 1 Corinthians 7
     
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  17. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Most slavery in the bible is what we call today indentured servitude. In that regard, I have a number of ancestors who were slaves.
     
  18. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Well-Known Member

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    So I have to conclude the reason to start this thread is purely for the purpose of promoting your own view. This is based on the fact your premise will not allow for any other conclusion, it is not subject to revision, case closed, end of learning, end of story.

    As an aside, the Lord wanted to lead His people, but His people did not want to be led, this is clearly taught in the book of Judges. The Lord wanted to be King of His people, but his people wanted an earthly king, so the Lord gave them Saul (1 Samuel). Over and over we read about the disobedience of Israel, and the judgments of God on them.

    Even before God gave Moses the law we read; "And the LORD said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people." (Exodus 32:9).

    So I submit it is unreasonable to think just because x was permitted that x pleased God rather the Hebrews mingled with other nations and rather than obeying the Lord, they were influenced by other nations even embracing their lifestyles and practices.

    This brief aside is useful for the purpose of context, for understanding the Levitical laws, which applied to Hebrew society, which have more in common with secular government, courts and laws, than Church government and laws. Israel (as a whole) rejected Theocracy, so they were given the harsh alternative which served to reveal the sinfulness of sin.

    If I am off the mark, maybe ToL will help correct me, but I think this will do.
     
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  19. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    Mathew 7:24, which if you think on what it says again, then you realize "in everything" isn't a small modifier (the wording Christ chose).

    In effect it leads after conversion of the slave owner to Christian faith, next by the inspired command from above, to Philemon (1 page, about 1-2 minutes to read) as the in-time outcome.

    Bible Gateway passage: Philemon - New International Version

    Notice how this outcome in Philemon is better than the United States now.

    The slave became not only free, but the full social equal, no less, to his former master. (And in time a Bishop)

    Are we today up to that level nationally in the U.S.? Well, it's mixed. Partial. Less perfect than the Philemon level.

    We don't fulfill the Christian ideal in the U.S. of true and full social equality, else police wouldn't execute so many black people on the street under color of law, school districts in states wouldn't be some rich, some so underfunded, etc.

    If you read the Bible you can see progressions, which make sense, because if nations progress, they do it gradually.

    If not gradual then why so many laws in lieu of Mathew 7:24? Consider for yourself what is needed without Mathew 7:24:
    Maryland Rape and Sexual Assault Laws - FindLaw

    Did you look? That's "progression" over time of law, just like the Old Testament: accumulating baby steps, more and more micro regulation.

    This is why we need conversion to bring about heaven. Only true faith actually makes Mathew 7:24 happen when it's less an advantage to do....
     
  20. No Username Found

    No Username Found Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There was absolutely no race based slavery in the Bible other than the slavery the Israelites experienced in Egypt. People were enslaved because of crimes they committed or sold themselves into slavery to get out of poverty. In war, enslaving the enemy was considered a mercy rather than killing them. Many slaves had very prominent positions like Joseph.
     
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