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Slavery in the bible.

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Par5, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    I don't think you are really following the discussion. No one on either side is making a pro-slavery argument. The point is that we all universally accept that slavery is immoral. The question is why is it considered immoral in our times when it wasn't considered immoral in Bible times? What changed? How did we determine that slavery is immoral?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
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  2. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    This is a prohibition against kidnapping. There are other ways to enslave people against their will, eg war captives. Are you saying that all slaves in Israel are willing slaves?
     
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  3. Par5

    Par5 Well-Known Member

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    Non-Hebrews could be forced into slavery and made slaves for life. Leviticus 25:44-46
    44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
    45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
    46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

    Hebrew slaves could be freed in the seventh year, but if his master had given the slave a wife then the wife and any children became the property of the slave owner. The only way the slave could stay with his family was to become his master's slave for life. If he did so his ear was tagged like a sheep to denote his slave status.
     
  4. Par5

    Par5 Well-Known Member

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    The bible states that slaves could be taken from non-Hebrew nations and that the men and their families would become slaves for life. Leviticus 25:24-26
     
  5. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    Well, when civilian space travel becomes common and affordable it might help with that.
     
  6. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    The problem with war is that when an army is defeated, it leaves behind the women, children, and elderly, who are the least capable of surviving on their own. If left to themselves, they would die of starvation and exposure, so it was to their advantage to be taken as slaves by Israel. For instance, the Law gives guidelines where a captive could gain the full status of becoming someone's wife, which was much more than they could hope for if taken as a slave by other nations.
     
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  7. Par5

    Par5 Well-Known Member

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    It never ceases to amaze me how Christian apologists call biblical slavery everything except slavery. You would think you were discussing some kind of aid program for the homeless.
    A system where a person is beaten for not pleasing his master. A system where a persons wife and children can be taken from him and passed on as an inheritance. A system where a person can only save losing his wife and children by having his ear tagged and become a slave for life. That my friend is someone who is a slave, not someone who is receiving an act of charity.
    Saying someone is their money is nothing more than a euphemism for being their property.
     
  8. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    Was it in the Israelites advantage to be taken into slavery when they were the ones defeated? Would they cry out for God to rescue them?

    This doesn't really make things any better for the rest.
     
  9. Par5

    Par5 Well-Known Member

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    You compare your life to that of a slave? Really? My goodness, it must be terrible for you. Imagine having to go to work to earn your pay. I just hope you have managed to avoid being beaten by your employer and that he hasn't claimed ownership of your children or placed a tag on your ear. Poor you, it can't be easy being a slave!
     
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  10. Par5

    Par5 Well-Known Member

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    In an ideal world that would be great, but our children don't take long to learn there is such a thing as the Bank of Mum and Dad. And yes, they should be treated humanely.:)
     
  11. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    In Exodus 21:1-6, it gives guidelines where a slave could choose to become a permanent slave instead of going free, so you should be considering scenarios where people thought that they were better off as a slave than as someone who was free. In Israel, slaves could go free is they were mistreated, but there was nothing to prevent their mistreatment in other nations, so it would most likely not be to their advantage to be taken into slavery by them.
     
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  12. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    Philemon is a short book of the Bible which gives the example of a slave being given freedom as a picture of the liberty in Christ from sin and unbelief.

    But of course if the Word of God is read in unbelief, with a view to diminishing its faith related content, then such writings will not be appreciated. Neither is there any profit in continuing the discussion where there is little or no desire actually to learn what God's Word means.
     
  13. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    same cause different conditions.
     
  14. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    The key verse in that passage is Exodus 21:2

    If thou buy a Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.​

    This passage is only applicable to Hebrew servants, not all slaves.

    For foreigners this applies:
     
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  15. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    Is paid labour immoral?
     
  16. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    God only seems concerned with his own people being enslaved and rather tolerant of his people enslaving others.
     
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  17. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    Do you think there is a change in attitude towards slavery between the old and new testaments?
     
  18. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. God's word is the sole infallible rule of morality and faith. I don't know where you get this question from my previous comment.
     
  19. Everybodyknows

    Everybodyknows The good guys lost

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    You said
    I took that comment as though you were implying that God reduced his standards in accordance with the human culture of the time. And that the covenant of law alone is somehow incomplete.
     
  20. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    That is not what I meant. I apologize if I was not clear. God does not lower His standard. But God does use means to glorify Himself. God uses evil by His sovereign decree, but that does not make Him less than perfect or the author of evil. God allowed Pharoah to enslave Israel for a time, so that God could set the Israelites free to show His mercy and grace on the people of Israel, and to show His judgment on the false gods of Egypt and the Egyptians for following after false gods. God decree that Joseph was to be sold into slavery so that God would later use Joseph to preserve His people, even though Joseph's brothers intended it for evil.

    So what if God was using the general practice of slavery in some manner to demonstrate His glory? Apart from the grace of God, we are all enslaved. We are slaves to sin. But by the work of grace by God, we become slaves to righteousness.

    My primary point I was attempting to make, although I know I was not completely clear, is that when we look at the practice of slavery and the laws that God gave to the ancient Israelites concerning slavery, we far too often look at it from the modern lens and completely ignore what is going on at that time, in that place, with those particular people. We think we have the right to judge God's actions and laws, when we don't have that right at all.

    I seek to defend the truth of God, although God does not need me to do this, I believe as a Christian, we have a responsibility to stand up when someone takes scripture completely out of context, has no concept of what was happening in history, has no love of truth or God, and attempts to call God evil, when they themselves are the evil ones, because of their hatred of God and attempting to make themselves God.
     
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