sinful passions aroused by the law...

[visionary]

How many of you have sinful passions erupt by the reading of the law? Do you get consumed with evil desires while contemplating the law? So how can sinful passions be aroused by the law? It doesn't make sense.

To me the law of God brings convictions and a desire to upgrade my standard of living to match what is required. Do you have the opposite effect where the convictions from studying the Word of God drive you to do the opposite of what it requires in rebellion?

I just do not understand how sinful passions can be aroused by the law..

 

[jehoiakim]

I don't think i have ever had the law arouse a sinful passion and if I did I would assume I was under attack by demonic forces for reading the law. My temptation comes when I haven't been reading the law

 

[ChavaK]

How many of you have sinful passions erupt by the reading of the law? Do you get consumed with evil desires while contemplating the law? So how can sinful passions be aroused by the law? It doesn't make sense.

To me the law of God brings convictions and a desire to upgrade my standard of living to match what is required. Do you have the opposite effect where the convictions from studying the Word of God drive you to do the opposite of what it requires in rebellion?

I just do not understand how sinful passions can be aroused by the law..

I've never heard of such a thing. Have you read something indicating this is a problem for some people?

 

[visionary]

Just wondering where Paul gets the idea that the law arouses sinful passions.

 

[ChavaK]

Just wondering where Paul gets the idea that the law arouses sinful passions.

Don't know, but it seems like a strange concept.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just wondering where Paul gets the idea that the law arouses sinful passions.

Not sure myself.
But didn't Paul use a lot of verses concerning "law and sin"? Seems it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the Gosples that I could see.
Can one have knowledge of sin w/o the Law?
[And fwiw, I am not teaching here, just offering verses in line with the topic and asking questions]

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YLT
"sin" AND "law"
occurs in 24 verses in the YLT

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

 

[Avodat]

Just wondering where Paul gets the idea that the law arouses sinful passions.

Actual text quoted and translation used, please?

 

[yonah_mishael]

I love ice cream. I mean, love it. If I could eat only ice cream every day, I would not give it up. Seriously. So, imagine my chagrin when my doctor gave me the news that I’m diabetic and that I cannot go to the local gelatto shop and sit down daily to a cup of softserve with hardening chocolate topping!

Was I tempted by ice cream before the news came? Of course, I ate ice cream when I got the urge. It wasn’t really daily, but if I felt like a cup of ice cream, I didn’t think twice. What about now? If I walk past Dairy Cream, what temptations flood my system! Passion is stirred. Desire awakened. I feel the need to grab a cup of ice cream like I never felt it before I received the news from my doctor.

Paul is not saying that sin creates the desire but that it awakens it. The desire to do the actions that constitute breaking the law is always present, but it is not a violation of the law as far as our conscience is concerned until someone makes us aware of the fact that it’s a violation.

I didn’t know that eating ice cream was dangerous for me before I received the news. Someone who steals a little from work doesn’t know that it’s wrong until they are made aware of that somehow. Only when we become aware of the wrongness of the action does it become “sin” in our own eyes, and then it takes on power.

That’s what Paul is saying. He isn’t saying that the law itself creates the desire to break it. Nor is he saying that the law itself is responsible for sin. He is saying that law reflects the reality of our situation – that we naturally desire to do what is a violation of the law – and that the law itself has no power to correct this defect in us.

 

[visionary]

Romans 7:5
New International Version (NIV)
5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

 

[visionary]

I love ice cream. I mean, love it. If I could eat only ice cream every day, I would not give it up. Seriously. So, imagine my chagrin when my doctor gave me the news that I’m diabetic and that I cannot go to the local gelatto shop and sit down daily to a cup of softserve with hardening chocolate topping!

Was I tempted by ice cream before the news came? Of course, I ate ice cream when I got the urge. It wasn’t really daily, but if I felt like a cup of ice cream, I didn’t think twice. What about now? If I walk past Dairy Cream, what temptations flood my system! Passion is stirred. Desire awakened. I feel the need to grab a cup of ice cream like I never felt it before I received the news from my doctor.

Paul is not saying that sin creates the desire but that it awakens it. The desire to do the actions that constitute breaking the law is always present, but it is not a violation of the law as far as our conscience is concerned until someone makes us aware of the fact that it’s a violation.

I didn’t know that eating ice cream was dangerous for me before I received the news. Someone who steals a little from work doesn’t know that it’s wrong until they are made aware of that somehow. Only when we become aware of the wrongness of the action does it become “sin” in our own eyes, and then it takes on power.

That’s what Paul is saying. He isn’t saying that the law itself creates the desire to break it. Nor is he saying that the law itself is responsible for sin. He is saying that law reflects the reality of our situation – that we naturally desire to do what is a violation of the law – and that the law itself has no power to correct this defect in us.

Really... in verse 7 he says he would not have known sin without the law.

 

[visionary]

Here is how I relate to it.. Example.. the scenario... Mom instructs her little child, "Now, don't take any of these cookies,"

SO now we have the law laid down. Before Mom said that, there was no law. Now that Mom made this law, it would be against the law to take one of the cookies without permission.

The child who desired the cookies before Mom spoke up is now stuck with a decision. Obedience or cookie. They may be clear up on the top shelf, which Mom had placed them to keep the temptation down, but the child could sneak one anyway... pull a chair to the counter, climb up onto the counter, climb the shelves like a ladder, and reach up to the top shelf to get a cookie. And when caught in the act of getting the forbidden cookie, the child could add a lie, just like Adam in the Garden by laying the blame, "Little sister wants a cookie," shamefully trying to shift the blame to an infant who doesn't even have any teeth yet!!! Did the child sin? Yes, in disobeying Mom by stealing a cookie and in telling a lie to try to cover his guilt...

 

[Avodat]

Before the Law was made known man did lots of things, as he wanted to, and these things became ingrained in life. When the Law was made known, a lot of these things were outlawed. Man, however, has a strong desire to carry on doing them - this desire is heightened by the fact that they are now forbidden. Because of that the desire to go back to the pre-Law stage is very, very strong and man wants the things he used to do to remain available to him. Thus, the law has aroused a passion for the things he may no longer do!

 

[visionary]

Before the Law was made known man did lots of things, as he wanted to, and these things became ingrained in life. When the Law was made known, a lot of these things were outlawed. Man, however, has a strong desire to carry on doing them - this desire is heightened by the fact that they are now forbidden. Because of that the desire to go back to the pre-Law stage is very, very strong. Man wants the things he used to do to remain available to him. Thus, the law has aroused a passion for the things he may no longer do!

I still do not see the law arousing anything... It was already there, the law just identified where it would put them.. obedient or not obedient to the law.

Professor does an experiment... Before leaving the room, he announces that he does not want anyone to come touch anything on his desk. Before he made the announcement, no one was interested in his dusty old books and papers on his desk, because they could not care less what the ol' crusty boring teacher has. But since the teacher has made a point of laying down a law about his desk, curiosity is now peeked, and sure enough, someone in the room is going to check out as to why....

We really don't know all the details or reasons why the Lord "yah or nah" on this or that subject, making it a law that you can't do this or that. But the moment He did, the forbidden became the desired for some. It has to have been His way of testing our meddle...

Garden of Eden test... one tree
Before Mount Sinai... Sabbath

Wisdom comes from knowledge and obedience of the Law.

Romans 7:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

 

[Avodat]

Yeah, that's what I said with a different analogy. Can't see your distinction.

 

[visionary]

Yeah, that's what I said with a different analogy. Can't see your distinction.

All I am saying is the the sinful passion was already there but later after the law came was it identified as such..

 

[Avodat]

All I am saying is the the sinful passion was already there but later after the law came was it identified as such..

Erm, there could not be sinful passions prior to the Law - you needed the Law to tell you it was sinful!

I don't want to get into swapping analogies, but this may help: if the speed limit is not shown, 150kph plus is ok and is not a violation of the law. When the signs appear saying a maximum of 95kph it then becomes illegal (or a sin) to drive faster than that. However, having been used to driving at any speed, people will want to go a lot faster as they always have done! The passion to do so - to drive at 150kph - will eat away at them and they will be tempted to sin and drive above the new, lower limit.

 

[visionary]

Erm, there could not be sinful passions prior to the Law - you needed the Law to tell you it was sinful!

I don't want to get into swapping analogies, but this may help: if the speed limit is not shown, 150kph plus is ok and is not a violation of the law. When the signs appear saying a maximum of 95kph it then becomes illegal (or a sin) to drive faster than that. However, having been used to driving at any speed, people will want to go a lot faster as they always have done! The passion to do so - to drive at 150kph - will eat away at them and they will be tempted to sin and drive above the new, lower limit.

Since we know from the beginning, there has always been the law of God, there is no time with out His law and Satan was in the doing good until "iniquity" was found in him. I think this is where sinful passions needs to be laid at the foot of. He is the father of all evil. We know that the Law identifies and labels that which is sin. The desire to break the law can not be laid at the foot of the law itself nor the lawmaker who has our good at heart. That leaves it on the shoulders who brought it into being in the first place. That is why I say that the law does not arouse sinful passions. There might be more truth to the saying "the devil made me do it"

 

[Avodat]

Since we know from the beginning, there has always been the law of God, there is no time with out His law and Satan was in the doing good until "iniquity" was found in him. I think this is where sinful passions needs to be laid at the foot of. He is the father of all evil. We know that the Law identifies and labels that which is sin. The desire to break the law can not be laid at the foot of the law itself nor the lawmaker who has our good at heart. That leaves it on the shoulders who brought it into being in the first place. That is why I say that the law does not arouse sinful passions. There might be more truth to the saying "the devil made me do it"

Sin is the violation of the Law, ergo: no Law, no sin.

That old cop-out! Blame anyone, or G_d, but ourselves!

 

[visionary]

Sin is the violation of the Law, ergo: no Law, no sin.

That old cop-out! Blame anyone, or G_d, but ourselves!

Blame the flesh like Paul did then... Sin does not come from the law, the definition does. So sinful passions can not be from the law, but it can come from our flesh. The Law exposed those sinful passions and brought them to the surface. They can not longer be ignored in ignorance, and we have to make decisions as to what we are going to do about it. Do we continue to do that which we didn't know was wrong or do we cast it aside to walk in the light?

 

[macher]

Really... in verse 7 he says he would not have known sin without the law.

The law makes us aware of sin. Therefore who's going to deliver us?