Since evil, sin and suffering will last forever, does it really matter where?

[Mandy]

How long after Adam and Eve sinned, did God wait to become flesh?

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by seebs
Well, if sin and suffering don't continue forever, what happens to Satan? Is he saved, too?

Good question!

there are, as I see it, two takes on that.

1) Universalism; Everyone is saved whether they believe or not. I suppose this would have to include Satan, but I can't say for sure since I am not a universalist.

2) Annihilationism; Satan an the rest of the wicked are extinguished.

The Belief espoused by the bulk of Christianity (myself included) is that Satan and the wicked suffer eternal conscious punnishment, which means that Sin & Suffering do in fact continue forever.

You can't have the "annihilation" of Sin and suffering, in a cosmos where conscious punnishment and suffering of sinners, exists forever.

It's got to be one or the other.

Which brings us nicely back to the thread topic:
Isn't the objection about sin and suffering continuing forever more an objection about the location of where sin and sufering continue forever, than an objection to the mere continued existance of sin and suffering?

 

[Mandy]

How long did God wait, after man sinned, to send Jesus?

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by parousia70

Which brings us nicely back to the thread topic:
Isn't the objection about sin and suffering continuing forever more an objection about the location of where sin and sufering continue forever, than an objection to the mere continued existance of sin and suffering?

You really see it as the same thing if sin and suffering continue in the lake of fire or here on earth? Location doesn't matter?

I'm having a hard time understanding that logic. Of course location matters. For example, I can think of at least one unpleasant thing that I cannot cause to cease to exist, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to flush it anymore.

 

[GTX]

Originally posted by Mandy
How long did God wait, after man sinned, to send Jesus?

Good question, can the Preterists shed some automated speculation on this?

 

[BigEd]

Since evil, sin and suffering will last forever, does it really matter where?

Does it matter? well it does seem to matter in the scriptures, scripture does not explain why but it does explain where and how.

Mt. 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you
who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil
and his angels."

2Th. 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shutout from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.


2Pe. 3:7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved
for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


Jude 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding
towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the
punishment of eternal fire.

Re. 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake
of burning sulphur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever
and ever.

Re. 20:14,15 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The
lake of fire is the second death. If anyone?s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

These scriptures say a few thingsunishment will be eternal, punishment will include a seperation from God,punishment will be in the lake of fire. It makes it very clear that that satan, and death will be judged and sent to eternal punishment.

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Mandy
How long did God wait, after man sinned, to send Jesus?

He didn't "wait" Idley, He began immediatly laying the groundwork to cultivate the proper conditions to allow for Christ to be born.

Hows that for "automation"?

The general consensus however, as I understand it, is approx 4000 years.

Ok Mandy, you have an answer, go ahead and knock it down with whatever potion you have obviously whipped up in preperation.

 

[parousia70]

Thanks Ed, great scriptures! I agree with you about the fact of eternal conscious punishment, however, I differ on location necessity.

Originally posted by BigEd


2Th. 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shutout from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

Please explain how those who roam the earth today, who do not know God and follow the Gospel of Jesus, are In Gods presence today? are they not already shut out? isn't this a present reality for the Living who choose to be apart from God and Jesus?

Revelation 21 & 22 make it clear that even after the New H&E arrive, after the final Judgement, Sinners, murderers, adulterers, liars fornicators, and the like continue to roam the earth, seperated from God.

Originally posted by BigEd

These scriptures say a few thingsunishment will be eternal, punishment will include a seperation from God,punishment will be in the lake of fire. It makes it very clear that that satan, and death will be judged and sent to eternal punishment.

And the Bible makes it clear when the world was judged and satan was cast out:

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

1000 years is a day can not answer to now.

 

[BigEd]

P70-

I do want to respond to your questions,
me and my wife are off to visit her folks in Iowa, so it will be a couple of days before I have the time to.

 

[Mandy]

Originally posted by parousia70


He didn't "wait" Idley, He began immediatly laying the groundwork to cultivate the proper conditions to allow for Christ to be born.

Hows that for "automation"?

The general consensus however, as I understand it, is approx 4000 years.

Ok Mandy, you have an answer, go ahead and knock it down with whatever potion you have obviously whipped up in preperation.

Is it true that the OT Jews were waiting for and expecting their Messiah?

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Mandy


Is it true that the OT Jews were waiting for and expecting their Messiah?

(OK, I'll play along, but I'd ask that within the next post or two, you make your point.)

Yes it is true.