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Sin...?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Really? Here’s a few for you….


    And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
    - Matthew 12:10

    How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
    - Matthew 12:12

    And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
    - Mark 2:24

    And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
    - Mark 3:2

    And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
    - Mark 3:4

    Why if there is no commandment?
    And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
    - Mark 15:42


    And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
    - Luke 6:2

    And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
    - Luke 6:7

    And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
    - Luke 13:14

    And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
    - Luke 23:54

    And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
    - Luke 23:56

    And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
    - Acts 13:44

    For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
    - Acts 15:21

    And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
    - Acts 18:4

    Perhaps another read of the NT. Not only is the Sabbath still a commandment its the day the disciples and Jesus kept as our example preaching and reading scriptures in the Temple as their custom on the Sabbath day.

    Jesus kept all the commandments of His Father and told us to as well. John 15:10.

    Jesus tells us to obey commandments over traditions which is Sunday worship and keeping traditions over the commandment of God is worshipping in vain. Matthew 15:3-9

    The Sabbath will continue to be the day of worship as promised by God Exodus 31:16 on the New Heaven and New Earth Isaiah 66:23. If you do not want to worship our Savior on His holy day now, will you want to in Heaven?
     
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Indeed!

    We enter into God's own full-time Sabbath rest, in our rest from our own work to save and
    in our rest in Jesus' complete work which saved us.

    Jesus is the fulfillment of God's full-time Sabbath rest, which was made for man, not for God.
     
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not biblical (see post 222 and post # 224 linked)
     
  4. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is no scripture stating the 4th commandment is deleted and that we receive Christ rest when we disobey the commandments of God.

    God blesses us for obeying not disobeying.

    Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
    From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
    And call the Sabbath a delight,
    The holy day of the Lord honorable,
    And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
    Nor finding your own pleasure,
    Nor speaking your own words,
    14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
    And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

    And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
    The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


    You do not receive Christ rest by disobeying the commandments of God.

    Ezekiel 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths.

    Hebrew 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,

    We receive the blessing of Christ rest when we obey which of course includes the 4th commandment personally written and spoken by our Creator and Savior Exodus 20:8-11 stored along the other nine commandments in the Most Holy of God’s Temple and now written in our hearts in the New Covenant.
     
  5. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    As posted earlier Jesus is not a Sabbath. The only scriptural definition of the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of the week. Exodus 20:10 the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God. Your mixing up the gospel rest that we receive from Jesus as we believe and follow Gods' Word with His Sabbath rest made before sin and the gospel was made for fallen mankind.
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    The Sabbath was made for man (not for God), not man for the Sabbath.

    God's Sabbath was not made man's one day/week Sabbath until Sinai.

    Hebrews 3:7-4:13 explains it well in post #1259, link following:

    Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    According to the scriptures Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27 and that he is the creator and Lord of the Sabbath in John 1:1-4; 14; Mark 2:28. The Sabbath was made for mankind on the "seventh day" of the creation week where God rested and blessed and made the "seventh day" of the week a holy day of rest *Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath therefore was made for all mankind at creation and we who believe do enter in *Hebrews 4:1-5
     
  9. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Where do we find God's Sabbath given to Adam?

    It is God's own rest, given to man when the Law was given at Sinai.

    When and where given are not the issue.
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Mark 2:27. There was no one else around when God made the Sabbath for mankind.
     
  11. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    The Sabbath was God's own rest, which he gave to Israel at Sinai, and there were plenty around when it was given "for man, not man for the Sabbath," which timing again is not the issue, but a distraction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No. The Sabbath is Gods' rest made for mankind as a memorial of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth given at creation *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. It was given to the nation of Israel at Mt Sinai as one of Gods' 10 commandments. *Exodus 20:8-11.
     
  13. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Nope. . .

    Read
    Hebrews 3:7-4:13. . .post #1259, link following:

    Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Your response...
    Yep.....

    1. REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY - memorial. (Exodus 20:8)
    2. THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN - (Mark 2:27)
    3. SABBATH WAS MADE IN CREATION - (Genesis 2:1-3)
    4. GIVEN TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL AT SINAI - (Exodus 20:8-11)
    5. ALREADY KNOW TO ISRAEL BEFORE SINAI - (Exodus 16)

    ..............

    God's Rest/His Rest/My Rest defined as "the seventh day" from the foundation of the world is what remains (stays behind) for the people of God to enter into as they believe and follow what Gods' Word says. See post 222 and post # 224 linked for a detailed scripture response.

    Your teachings are not biblical.

    Take Care.
     
  15. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Not the issue, just a distraction.

    Jesus is the fulfillment of the Sabbath in Hebrews 3:7-4:13, post #1259, link following:

    Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Your response...
    Responded with...
    You said here...
    Nope this is the issue and your post is the distraction. Please follow the conversation above. Please see post 222; post # 224 and post # 238 linked that disagrees with your teachings. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) and no where in the bible does it teach Jesus is a Sabbath. Your mixing up the gospel rest we receive from believing and following God's Word with God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath of creation that he made for all mankind (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 11:28-30; Hebrews 3:7 to Hebrews 4:1-11).

    Take Care.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Old Soul Supporter

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    Wow, this thread has gotten off topic/been derailed a bit...

    If you want to get back on topic, then, maybe start by answering "how do you think God will judge sin", etc...?

    God Bless!
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if it is all that much off topic as sin is the transgression of the law according to 1 John 3:4 and not believing and following Gods' Word *Romans 14:23. So both law, faith and unbelief are linked to sin. According to the scriptures we will be judged by the Word of God we accept or reject and if we keep God's standard of righteousness which is His law *see John 12:47-48; Psalms 119:172
     
  19. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

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    LoveGodsword: " There are two rests here. One is to the rest we enter into by believing and following Gods Word which is our rest and the rest we enter into by believing and following God’s Word to God’s rest which is the seventh day Sabbath.

    "Hebrews 4:3-5 defines God's rest by saying [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest (our rest from or the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (God's rest): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the "seventh day" on this wise, And God did rest the "seventh day" from all his works. [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest ("seventh day")."




    There is one rest. It is a sanctified rest, to remember how the Lord created the Heavens and the earth, and then Colossians tells us, Jesus Christ created all things, by Him and for Him ( For our Lord Jesus Christ.)


    There is one rest, not self created, interpreted words saying , " (our rest from or the gospel rest of believing and following God's Word)"...





    Here is God, which is Jesus Christ, creating the Heavens and the earth then sanctifying it ...



    Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


    Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:





    Jesus did all the works on earth this time, to shake the Heavens and the earth, to remove them, in order to replace them for ever so they never can be moved again, this is how the remembrance of the creations of the Heavens and the earth, is now a new creation, and works finished by Jesus Christ on earth ( the antichrist denies Christ came in the flesh) and how the sanctified day was replaced by the true sanctification and everlasting creation of the Kingdom of Heaven within us by Jesus Christ..



    Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
    27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.







    So the works were finished from the foundation of the world, but new works Christ had to finish, and that was when Christ rested, when He was sanctified on the death and rising..




    Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.






    Remember the day that God sanctified, to be remembered for the creation of Jesus Christ, of the Heavens and the earth.

    That sanctification was improved, replaced, God that is Holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

    Jesus did this, He sanctified Himself ( by rising from the dead to glory) to also sanctify all who believe in Christ through the truth ( the truth of Jesus Christ which is the Holy Ghost given into us/the Spirit of truth)...



    Genesis 2::3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    Isaiah 5:16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

    John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.




    The offering of the body of Christ sanctifies us ( keeping the sabbath rest sanctified nobody ever) the same as keeping the law, nobody lived, it is not of faith, it was therefore death in the letter, curse and only the ones who did them would live in them ( but all in Adam die in in and unbelief in the righteousness of Christ).

    Jesus did sanctify us, and Sabbath day sancification keepers, deny the sanctification of Christ, once, and for all, but Jesus triumphed over all, therefore no man can judge us ( or Jesus Christ) in respect of the sabbath days, which are now a shadow, but all is of Christ ( sanctified in Him) now..



    Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.




    Here is example of all of this, the disciples of Jesus did not keep any sabbath days, they worked by plucking corn, of course LoveGodsword states that to do good on the sabbath day is lawful, yet, just like the Pharisees, he cannot support working on the sabbath days, or doing what is good for us ( our own pleasure on the sabbath as the disciples of Jesus did to the displeasure of the Pharisee, sabbath keepers) Jesus Christ is greater than the temple, as He is the Temple, and we are the Temple with Him ( sanctified by the Lord in us in Holiness all days the same...




    Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:


    Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.
    2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
    3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
    4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
    5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
    6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.




    The purpose of this answer is to clarify for the ones teaching law, ( which is against the faith of Christ) how they say we need to rest on the Sabbath, or if we do not, we break the Sabbath and are sinners ,( they even go so far as to say Jesus Christ is a sinner if He broke the Sabbath) but Jesus is not only not shown as resting on the sabbath days, He is shown to be non stop doing the works of God on those very same sabbath days, and not resting at all.


    In John 5, what we notice here is the specific command of Jesus to the now healed man, to not only rise up and walk, but to carry his bed with him.

    Naturally it was the Sabbath, as Jesus picked these days on purpose to confound the Jews , Acts and 1 Corinthians can remind some other confounded the Lord did on them, Acts 9:22, 1 Corinthians 1:27, but to the ones who believe, they are not confounded by Christ, unlke the Sabbath so called law keepers the Pharisees.


    It was not lawful to carry ones bed, but the man answered why he did it, because Jesus said to him, take up your bed, and walk..



    1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.



    John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
    9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
    10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
    11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
     
  20. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

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    Prophecy: "Speak Gods word that supports your showing of the law in the new testament, but how no such word at all speaks of Sabbath keeping as part of any law of Christ, you know in the entire new Testament ?"





    SabbathBlessings:


    And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
    - Luke 23:56


    And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
    - Acts 13:44

    For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
    - Acts 15:21

    And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
    - Acts 18:4



    SabbathBlessings: "Perhaps another read of the NT. Not only is the Sabbath still a commandment its the day the disciples and Jesus kept as our example preaching and reading scriptures in the Temple as their custom on the Sabbath day."



    Now, you can have another look with me.

    The women, rested on the sabbath according to the commandment ( which the Jews enforced)


    The disciples were struggling to believe all that the prophets had spoken, for Christ to suffer all things and then enter into His glory ( to be sanctified for our sakes by the truth).

    Mary told the disciples she had seen the Lord, and the disciples also were assembled together and shut the door, for fear of the same enforcing and persecuting Jews against them.

    Jesus sends them, to do the will of the Father, as the Son did the will of the Father, and breathed on them the Holy Ghost. ( now they are bold and have no fear of the Jews, no hiding and no keeping of the Jews laws ( as they were now sanctified in Christ, once for all and not sanctified on any sabbath day)

    The Jews commanded the disciples, to not do all in the name of Jesus as they were dong now, but the disciples now answered the Jews, they obey God and not man ( or man made enforced laws)..




    Luke 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
    56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

    Luke 24:24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
    25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
    26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

    John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
    19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

    Acts 5:28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
    29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
    22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:







    There is no law mentioned in the new testament, which also says to keep the sabbath, that is against liberty and is false, see examples..


    We are sanctified in the truth, the love of the truth, and to love another fulfils the law, all the commandments that are mentioned are to keep loving our neighbour, and anything that is missing, is the same, to fulfil loving our neighbour as ourself, which is not done by resting on the sabbath, but by the same as Christ, to labour to be accepted of Him, on all days and in all ways that are giving of ourselves for others, and not doing this selfish way for us instead..

    John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


    Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

    Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
    29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.




    We labour to be accepted of Christ, that is how the Apostles laboured to enter into the rest of God, as we see clearly, and then the labourer is worthy of his reward, and that is exactly why the disciples took their reward for labouring in the Lord ( not restring) on the sabbath days..



    1 Timothy 5:18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

    Luke 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
     
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