Sin was not rooted in behalf of God

[elopez]

As frank as it gets this is for those who believe god is the origin of sin and evil and how this belief is misleading and makes god's nature out to be a sham. This view should be unequivocally discredited by any and every Christian as the reaction.

To say that god created sin is to equivocate the meaning of "create," for sin is not of substance material such as it was with the earth when it was "created." Simply put, sin is not something that can be "created."

Even then, to begin to claim god created sin or evil it would be critical to delineate the nature of sin. In simplicity sin is the result of an immoral action of man that opposes the law of God (Romans 8:7; 1 John 2:4; 1 John 3:4). Sin is moral evil. Since it does not make sense to say god "created" sin it would be said that god caused sin, that is, to engage in an immoral action that opposes his own law. So when it is said that god created sin that essentially is what is meant. To deny this would only mean one wishes to also redefine "sin," but how can you when sin is defined right there in scripture?

Sin could not have originated from God as there is no darkness in His nature (1 John 1:5). God hates sin (Proverbs 6:16-19), so how could He have been the origin of it? This mendacious conclusion simply does not follow. Not according to scripture or reasoning. Indeed it is claimed however that scripture does entail that God created sin, though this would only mean it conflicts with the above verses.

It would be contradicting of scripture if it claimed that god created sin yet there is no sin in him. So either scripture is contradicting at that point or the interpretation of the text that desires to conclude god is the author of sin is mistaken and taken out of context. The notion that god is the origin of sin is in dispute with reason as sin could not originate from a sinless being. God cannot be tempted by sin or evil and as such would not cause it's existence (James 1:12-13).

 

[OzSpen]

As frank as it gets this is for those who believe god is the origin of sin and evil and how this belief is misleading and makes god's nature out to be a sham. This view should be unequivocally discredited by any and every Christian as the reaction.

To say that god created sin is to equivocate the meaning of "create," for sin is not of substance material such as it was with the earth when it was "created." Simply put, sin is not something that can be "created."

Even then, to begin to claim god created sin or evil it would be critical to delineate the nature of sin. In simplicity sin is the result of an immoral action of man that opposes the law of God (Romans 8:7; 1 John 2:4; 1 John 3:4). Sin is moral evil. Since it does not make sense to say god "created" sin it would be said that god caused sin, that is, to engage in an immoral action that opposes his own law. So when it is said that god created sin that essentially is what is meant. To deny this would only mean one wishes to also redefine "sin," but how can you when sin is defined right there in scripture?

Sin could not have originated from God as there is no darkness in His nature (1 John 1:5). God hates sin (Proverbs 6:16-19), so how could He have been the origin of it? This mendacious conclusion simply does not follow. Not according to scripture or reasoning. Indeed it is claimed however that scripture does entail that God created sin, though this would only mean it conflicts with the above verses.

It would be contradicting of scripture if it claimed that god created sin yet there is no sin in him. So either scripture is contradicting at that point or the interpretation of the text that desires to conclude god is the author of sin is mistaken and taken out of context. The notion that god is the origin of sin is in dispute with reason as sin could not originate from a sinless being. God cannot be tempted by sin or evil and as such would not cause it's existence (James 1:12-13).

I do not know why you started a new thread as this topic has been debated at length. See "God created evil, period". See also, "Was sin created by God?"

Oz

 

[elopez]

I do not know why you started a new thread as this topic has been debated at length. See "God created evil, period". See also, "Was sin created by God?"

Oz

Cause' those two threads are advocating that sin was created and like you said, were debated at length. I'm not going to join some random conversation and I've already posted in the first thread. So, this thread is a fresh start for those who want to attempt to make sense of the premise. So far no takers.

 

[OzSpen]

Cause' those two threads are advocating that sin was created and like you said, were debated at length. I'm not going to join some random conversation and I've already posted in the first thread. So, this thread is a fresh start for those who want to attempt to make sense of the premise. So far no takers.

I understand your emphasis and I support that view, but by starting a new thread, it is expected that those who take a contrary view will be engaged with you.

Here is my brief take on God not being the creator of sin/evil (but I have posted some of this elsewhere on CF):

How do we respond, biblically to the accusation that God created sin/evil? I was preaching at a service when at the end of the service a fellow publicly stated that God created evil according to Isa. 45:7. Let's examine this because the KJV translation has been promoting this view.

The KJV translates as, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things”.

The ESV reads, “I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things”.

According to the KJV, God creates good (light, peace) and evil (see also Jer. 18:11; Lam. 3:38; Amos 3:6). But there are other Scriptures that state that there is no darkness in God (e.g. 1 John 1:5). Hab. 1:13 states that “You who are of purer eyes than to see evil” (ESV). James 1:13 confirms that “God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one”. So where does this leave us?

We know that God is morally perfect (see Deut. 32:4; Matt. 5:48). God cannot sin (Heb. 6:18). But there is more to the attributes of God, including his absolute justice that requires that sin be punished by Him. So, there will be judgment by God in this life and eternally (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:11-15). So, in this life, when God executes justice we sometimes call this “evil” because from our human perspective, God seems to be committing evil against these people and nations. Were the Indonesian tsunami and the Joplin MO twister examples of God’s “evil” actions?

However, the Hebrew ra, evil/calamity in Isa 45:7, does not always mean moral evil. In the Isa 45 context, the ESV demonstrates that it should be translated as “calamity”, which is how the NKJV also translates it. The context supports this translation. So God is seen as the creator of “evil”, not in the moral sense directly, but as the one who brings judgment/calamity.

God can be seen indirectly as the author of moral evil, but only in the sense that he created moral human beings who had the power of free choice and it is this free choice by us that brought moral evil into the universe. We see the beginning of this in Genesis 3. God created moral beings who had the ability to perform moral evil – and they did. God created free human beings and it is they who made evil real.

God’s making human beings with the possibility of free choice is a good thing. Surely we agree with the idea that human beings can choose one kind of clothing over another, one type of food over another, is a good action by God. Living in a world without choice would seem strange indeed. But the power of choice or free will comes with other consequences – the power for human beings to perform evil actions such as murder, rape, theft and many other evil things.

Thus, we can say that God created only good things and one of those good things was freedom to choose. Moral, but free, human beings produced the evil in our world.

Yes, God made the moral universe and indirectly created the possibility of evil/sin in our universe. So, sin is permitted by God, but God does not produce or promote this evil. We know that ultimately a greater good is coming (see Gen. 50:20; Rev. 21-22).

However, God, throughout history, has brought disaster/calamity in judgment. At the time of Noah was the worst of these, but there have been other times throughout biblical history.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[elopez]

I understand your emphasis and I support that view, but by starting a new thread, it is expected that those who take a contrary view will be engaged with you.

That is what I anticipate. I want to see their responses to my questions.

And I enjoyed reading your line of thought

 

[OzSpen]

That is what I anticipate. I want to see their responses to my questions.

And I enjoyed reading your line of thought

Why do you think that some are taking the view that God created sin/evil? Are they not able to differentiate between God's causation (making a good human couple in the beginning who had not sinned) and God's giving human beings the power of choice (to obey or disobey God)?

I hope others join this discussion so that we can better understand why others want to attribute evil/sin to God.

However, I'd like your view on what you think is motivating people to make God the creator of sin.

Oz

 

[elopez]

Why do you think that some are taking the view that God created sin/evil? Are they not able to differentiate between God's causation (making a good human couple in the beginning who had not sinned) and God's giving human beings the power of choice (to obey or disobey God)?

The majority probably view that because they are convinced it's what the Bible says. Though I have also come across those who are confused on that difference. I would say it's a pretty frequent issue. So I guess a factor of the both more than likely combined.

I hope others join this discussion so that we can better understand why others want to attribute evil/sin to God.

That's more or less why I started this thread.

However, I'd like your view on what you think is motivating people to make God the creator of sin.

Oz

Honestly I think it's the poor translations and confusion over various issue concerning the nature of God, e.g. God caused evil because He foreknew of evil.

 

[OzSpen]

The majority probably view that because they are convinced it's what the Bible says. Though I have also come across those who are confused on that difference. I would say it's a pretty frequent issue. So I guess a factor of the both more than likely combined.

That's more or less why I started this thread.

Honestly I think it's the poor translations and confusion over various issue concerning the nature of God, e.g. God caused evil because He foreknew of evil.

They are excellent observations. I consider that the KJV translation of Isa. 45:7 is a wrong one and this led to a fellow in the congregation where I preached to state: "God created evil". But I also think that there is considerable ignorance on the teaching on the attributes of God. If we understood the holiness and goodness of God, we would know that He could not create sin.

On a related matter, Pollster George Barna in the USA a few years ago "was commissioned . . . to inquire of people what one question they would ask of God if they had the opportunity. By an overwhelming margin, the most urgent question was this ..." What do you think it was?

I know that you can Google this quote and find the answer. I have the answer in a couple of my articles online. I'd urge you not to Google the answer, but for you to state what you think most people would like to ask God.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[billybtennessee]

To me personally, it is more a question of 'Why does God allow evil to exist.' I believe we are free moral beings. We choose who to love, serve, believe. God wants a people who will seek Him, and find Him. This is what 'faith' is. We can rebel, reject, who God is, and all He did/does for us. In that we, as mankind, are prone to evil, is not debatable, I don't believe. Left to our own selves, we are hopelessly lost. It is God alone who saves, He provided redemption, through the Lord Jesus Christ. This is the 'gospel'. The gospel is for 'all'. All are invited to come to God through Jesus Christ.

Others believe that God only desires to save a 'few'. This is His plan and purpose. However, using that reasoning, then God also purposely rejects the overwhelming majority. There are very serious contradictions to such theology, in scripture. But, nonetheless, this is why the debate exists.

One of the things satan used, in the fall, was 'ye shall become as gods'. In an awful lot of issues, we can see people claiming what only God can answer. Since most of the answers used in christendom, has scripture they will use in their defense of whichever view they will use, the debates just goes around in circles. Obviously, there is not a clear cut answer, at least one which all will agree on. The fault does not lie with God, that is for sure.

I agree with the OP. And with Oz. Completely, regarding this. Others will not. Anyhow, this is my contribution to this topic. In Jesus Christ, trusting, following, abiding, in Him, is the only way any of us will be saved. He is our only hope, regarding our salvation. In Him, is Light, no darkness at all. God seeks those who love Him, above all else. We fall short at any less. I don't believe God is to be blamed for that falling, though.

 

[OzSpen]

To me personally, it is more a question of 'Why does God allow evil to exist.' I believe we are free moral beings. We choose who to love, serve, believe. God wants a people who will seek Him, and find Him. This is what 'faith' is. We can rebel, reject, who God is, and all He did/does for us. In that we, as mankind, are prone to evil, is not debatable, I don't believe. Left to our own selves, we are hopelessly lost. It is God alone who saves, He provided redemption, through the Lord Jesus Christ. This is the 'gospel'. The gospel is for 'all'. All are invited to come to God through Jesus Christ.

Others believe that God only desires to save a 'few'. This is His plan and purpose. However, using that reasoning, then God also purposely rejects the overwhelming majority. There are very serious contradictions to such theology, in scripture. But, nonetheless, this is why the debate exists.

One of the things satan used, in the fall, was 'ye shall become as gods'. In an awful lot of issues, we can see people claiming what only God can answer. Since most of the answers used in christendom, has scripture they will use in their defense of whichever view they will use, the debates just goes around in circles. Obviously, there is not a clear cut answer, at least one which all will agree on. The fault does not lie with God, that is for sure.

I agree with the OP. And with Oz. Completely, regarding this. Others will not. Anyhow, this is my contribution to this topic. In Jesus Christ, trusting, following, abiding, in Him, is the only way any of us will be saved. He is our only hope, regarding our salvation. In Him, is Light, no darkness at all. God seeks those who love Him, above all else. We fall short at any less. I don't believe God is to be blamed for that falling, though.

Billy,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. To your question, "Why does God allow evil to exist?", I developed this outline about 12 months ago for a sermon / conference topic that I plan to present. Would you mind picking it to pieces for me to show the weakness in this kind of approach.

Sincerely, Oz

Which "monster" created evil?

​

I. Introduction

Pollster George Barna in the USA recently "was commissioned to inquire of people what one question they would ask of God if they had the opportunity. By an overwhelming margin, the most urgent question was: Why is there so much suffering in the world?" (in Rhodes 2004:8).

I want to ask and try to answer two questions:
· First, Which "monster" created evil?
· Second, why doesn't God do something about it?

A popular argument by atheists on university campuses:
1. "If God is all-good, He would destroy evil.
2. "If God is all-powerful, He could destroy evil.
3. "But evil is not destroyed.
4. "Hence, there is no such God." (Geisler & Brooks 1990:63)

II. Evil defined


Genesis 2:17: "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil." What is "good"? To obey God's law, i.e. to do what is morally correct. What is "evil"? To disobey God's law; to commit moral wrong.

In the OT, evil refers primarily to what "objectively hurts one's existence" and "is predominantly looked on as God's punishment" (Achilles 1975:562). In the NT, the main word, kakos, means "in the moral sense bad, evil…. Injurious, dangerous, pernicious" (Arndt & Gingrich 1957:398) or "evil, bad, destructive, damaging, unjust" (Achilles 1975:563).

III. God's view on the origin of evil


A. Let's touch down on a few verses in Genesis ch. 1


1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
1:10, "God called the dry ground 'land,' and the gathered waters he called 'seas.' And God saw that it was good."
1:12, "The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good."
1:18, The sun and moon in the sky: "And God saw that it was good."
1:21, God created the creatures of the land and sea, "And God saw that it was good."
1:25, "And God saw that it was good."
1:27, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."
1:31, "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good."

B. The test was given to human beings

Free will human beings were given the power of choice from the first man and woman who ever existed. It was the power to choose evil OR good. If they chose evil, what would be the consequence. Gen. 2:17 states it clearly: "For when you eat of it you will surely die."

The Bible speaks of three types of death:
1. Physical death, which is death of the flesh;
2. Spiritual death, separation from God that was caused by Adam and is experienced by all human beings;
3. The "second death", which is Gehenna (hell) – eternal damnation, eternal torment.

In commenting on Gen. 2:17, H. C. Leupold enlightens the meaning:

"Dying is separation from God. That separation occurred the very moment when man by his disobedience broke the bond of love. If physical death ultimately closes the experience, that is not the most serious aspect of the whole affair. The most serious is the inner spiritual separation. Oehler … rightly maintains: 'For a fact, after the commission of sin man at once stepped upon the road of death'" (Leupold 1942:128).

God did not create evil. He created human beings with "the ability to decide between alternatives." God "created the fact of freedom; we perform the acts of freedom. He made evil possible; [people] made evil actual. Imperfection came through the abuse of our moral perfection as free creatures" (Geisler & Brooks 1990:63)

But! Isaiah 45:7, “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things” (NIV). (cf. the wrong KJV translation: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".)

Remember Noah’s flood? Who did it? Remember Sodom & Gomorrah? Who did it? God! God brings some calamities, disasters, but God does not cause or create moral evil.

IV. Free will & evil

J. B. Phillips, the Bible translator, wrote: "Evil is inherent in the risky gift of free will. God could have made us machines, but to do so would have robbed us of our precious freedom of choice, and we would have ceased to be human. Exercise of free choice in the direction of evil in what we call the 'fall' of man, is the basic reason for evil and suffering in the world. It is man's responsibility, not God's" (Phillips 1960:88-89, cited in Little 1987:115-116).

V. What would happen if God exterminated all evil RIGHT NOW?


Paul Little: "If God were to stamp out evil today, He would do a complete job. We want Him to stop war but stay remote from us. If God were to remove evil from the universe, his action would be complete and would have to include our lies and personal impurities, our lack o love, and our failure to do good. Suppose God were to decree that tonight all evil would be removed from the universe—who of us would still be here after midnight?" (Little 1987:109)

VI. What's God's purpose in evil?

A. The nature of God

1. He's the living God and not some dead idol (Dan. 6:16)

2. He is love (1 John 4:8)

3. He's present everywhere (Ps. 139:7-8)

4. He is holy (1 Sam. 2:2)

5. He is righteous and just (Ps. 11:7)

6. He is the God of compassion (Ps. 103:13)

7. He is the Sovereign God (Ps. 66:7)


B. The atheist's argument


1. "If God is all-good, He would destroy evil.
2. "If God is all-powerful, He could destroy evil.
3. "But evil is not destroyed.
4. "Hence, there is no such God" (Geisler & Brooks 1990:63).

C. A Christian response


1. If God is all-good, He will defeat evil.
2. If God is all-powerful, He can defeat evil.
3. Evil is not yet defeated.
4. Therefore, God can and will one day defeat evil" (Geisler & Brooks 1990:64-65).

D. God's purpose in evil

1. There is a difference between our knowing the purpose for evil and God having a purpose for it.
2. God has told us some of the purposes for evil.
· Evil sometimes warns us of worse consequences.
· Pain can help stop us from destroying ourselves.
· Remember these people in the OT? Joseph, Job & Samson.
· James 1:2-4.
· To defeat evil, God permitted some horrific evil.
Jesus Christ had done nothing wrong. He was pure, without sin. Yet he died a cruel death with criminals on the cross.
· C. S. Lewis, "God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world."

VII. Towards an answer

1. The absolutely good God created a total universe, including human beings, that were "very good" (Gen. 1:31).
2. In the beginning, God created innocent and perfect human beings (Adam & Eve) with free wills, so they could obey or disobey God (Gen. 2:15-17).
3. These two human beings were our representatives and chose to sin by breaking God's law (Genesis 3).
4. God prepared immediately for the Saviour (Gen. 3:15).
5. Jesus Christ the Saviour came into the world to die and be
resurrected, to bring salvation to human beings who would repent & receive him (Gal. 4:4-5; 1 John 2:1-2).
6. God's people (the church) are on earth to live a radically different life and to proclaim the message of salvation through Christ alone (Matt. 28:19-20).
7. Jesus Christ is returning as King over all people (Matt. 19:28) and this will lead to the final judgment of people.
8. The new heavens and the new earth will be established (Rev. 21:1-4).

VII. Conclusion

This may not look like the best possible world to us, but God has determined that "it is the best way to the best world. If God is to both preserve freedom and defeat evil, then this is the best way to do it" (Geisler & Brooks 1990:73)
John Stott summarised:

"I could never myself believe in God, if it were not for the cross. . . In the real world of pain, how could one worship a God who was immune to it? I have entered [some] Buddhist temples of the Buddha, his legs crossed, arms folded, eyes closed, the ghost of a smile playing round his mouth, a remote look on his face, detached from the agonies of the world. But each time after a while I have had to turn away. And in imagination I have turned instead to that lonely, twisted, tortured figure on the cross, nails through hands and feet, back lacerated, limbs wrenched, brow bleeding from thorn-pricks, mouth dry and intolerably thirsty, plunged in God-forsaken darkness. That is the God for me! He laid aside his immunity to pain. He entered our world of flesh and blood, tears and death. He suffered for us. Our sufferings become more manageable in the light of his. There is still a question mark against human suffering, but over it we boldly stamp another mark, the cross which symbolizes divine suffering. 'The cross of Christ . . . is God's only self-justification in such a world' as ours" (Stott 1986:335-336, including a quote from Forsyth 1916:32).

"If God is to both preserve freedom and defeat evil, then this is the best way to do it" (Geisler & Brooks 1990:73).

References

Achilles, E. 1975. Evil, Bad, Wickedness. In C. Brown (ed.), The New
International Dictionary of New Testament Theology. Exeter: The Paternoster Press, 561-564.
Arndt, W. F. & Gingrich, F. W. 1957. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New
Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago/London: The
University of Chicago Press (limited edition, Zondervan Publishing House).
Forsyth, P. T. 1916. The Justification of God. London: Duckworth.
Geisler, N. L. & Brooks, R. M. 1990. When Skeptics Ask. Wheaton, Illinois:Victor Books.
Leupold, H. C. 1942. Exposition of Genesis. London: Evangelical Press.
Little, P. E. 1987. Know Why You Believe. Wheaton, Il: Victor Books.
Phillips, J. B. 1960. God Our Contemporary. New York: Macmillan.
Rhodes, R. 2004. Why Do Bad Things Happen If God Is Good? Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House Publishers.
Stott, J. R. W. 1986. The Cross of Christ. Leister, England: Inter-Varsity Press.

 

[billybtennessee]

Billy,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. To your question, "Why does God allow evil to exist?", I developed this outline about 12 months ago for a sermon / conference topic that I plan to present. Would you mind picking it to pieces for me to show the weakness in this kind of approach.

Sincerely, Oz



VII. Conclusion

This may not look like the best possible world to us, but God has determined that "it is the best way to the best world. If God is to both preserve freedom and defeat evil, then this is the best way to do it" (Geisler & Brooks 1990:73)
John Stott summarised:

"I could never myself believe in God, if it were not for the cross. . . In the real world of pain, how could one worship a God who was immune to it? I have entered [some] Buddhist temples of the Buddha, his legs crossed, arms folded, eyes closed, the ghost of a smile playing round his mouth, a remote look on his face, detached from the agonies of the world. But each time after a while I have had to turn away. And in imagination I have turned instead to that lonely, twisted, tortured figure on the cross, nails through hands and feet, back lacerated, limbs wrenched, brow bleeding from thorn-pricks, mouth dry and intolerably thirsty, plunged in God-forsaken darkness. That is the God for me! He laid aside his immunity to pain. He entered our world of flesh and blood, tears and death. He suffered for us. Our sufferings become more manageable in the light of his. There is still a question mark against human suffering, but over it we boldly stamp another mark, the cross which symbolizes divine suffering. 'The cross of Christ . . . is God's only self-justification in such a world' as ours" (Stott 1986:335-336, including a quote from Forsyth 1916:32).

"If God is to both preserve freedom and defeat evil, then this is the best way to do it" (Geisler & Brooks 1990:73).

Brother I really appreciate the conclusion. In the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, I believe all of the mysteries are solved. All of Gods fullness was revealed in Him. The one who created (without Him nothing was made that was made) died for His creation. Awesome. Deep.

Scripture spoke of satan being perfect in his creation, the anointed cherub, I think. Satan did not desire to fully submit to God, Gods authority, because He loved self more than God. God created them with the freedom to rebel against Him, and some did. God desires that we willingly submit, love, and serve Him. In that also comes the ability to reject, and rebel, refuse God.

Jesus Christ came to redeem sinners, and that is all of mankind. Those who come to God through Him, and abide in Him, are loved and chosen of God. No greater love could have been shown toward mankind. I am convinced of Gods love because of all Jesus Christ did, to provide our redemption. All of Gods purposes, desires for us, are found through the Lord Jesus Christ. We are safe in Him. Saved in Him. Kept through Him. We are just humble, willing vessels, He makes NEW, and fills with the Holy Spirit.

Much in the theological circles, just gives me a headache. Yes, I realize that many distort, change, and misinterpret Gods word. And there will be an accounting of that. But, in Jesus Christ, I have found that one is never wrong. One usurping Him will be ground to powder of that stone. But not if we fall upon it first. I can tell by your writing that you have. I agree with your view concerning this topic. Godspeed brother.

 

[OzSpen]

Billy,

Much in the theological circles, just gives me a headache. Yes, I realize that many distort, change, and misinterpret Gods word. And there will be an accounting of that. But, in Jesus Christ, I have found that one is never wrong. One usurping Him will be ground to powder of that stone. But not if we fall upon it first. I can tell by your writing that you have. I agree with your view concerning this topic. Godspeed brother.

Thank you for your kind words. I have a heartache over the distortion of God's word that happens in too many places. My wife and I have recently moved house to the capital of our state of Queensland - Brisbane. We have found it so difficult to locate sound exposition of Scripture from the pulpit. We have tried Baptist, Churches of Christ (not the same denomination as the USA Church of Christ), Anglican, and a couple evangelical Presbyterian Churches.

We have finally located one with sound exposition by the pastor at Petrie Presbyterian Church.

In Christ, Oz

 

[Jpark]

To say that god created sin is to equivocate the meaning of "create," for sin is not of substance material such as it was with the earth when it was "created." Simply put, sin is not something that can be "created."

Right. Which is why it has to be developed from creation, as there is a kind of wisdom that does not come from God (James 3:14-16) and yet comes from creations of God.

Basically, a perfect being incapable of manifesting imperfection created perfect beings capable of manifesting imperfection.

Hence, Omnipotent because He can make chaos from order, and vice versa.

Sin could not have originated from God as there is no darkness in His nature (1 John 1:5). God hates sin (Proverbs 6:16-19), so how could He have been the origin of it? This mendacious conclusion simply does not follow. Not according to scripture or reasoning. Indeed it is claimed however that scripture does entail that God created sin, though this would only mean it conflicts with the above verses.

God hates Satan (Satan is a murderer. If God does not hate Satan, he does not hate a great murderer) yet He uses him and created him.

Even if it did not originate from God directly, it is still God ordained.

As Oz pointed out, evil has a purpose. And I'ld like to add to that. Evil exists so that God's glory will be praised (Ezekiel 38-39).

The evils, calamity, torments in Rev. 9 and 16 were for repentance which is identified as giving glory to God (Rev. 16:9).