• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The CF Faith Groups List has been updated. The Statement of Faith has also been updated (section on unorthodox Christian theology only). Please review both of these updates. If you would like to request a different faith group, please open a support ticket.

Sin is an internal decision. When needed, we ask a jury to tally their internal decisions.

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by SkyWriting, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Passages that "define sin":

    Here: Jesus illustrates that He forgives sin, making it clear that accusers and name callers who follow the law should buzz off:

    7When they continued to question Him, He straightened upand said to them, “Whoever is without sinamong you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her.”

    Here scripture tells us that each person decides what is sin:
    16 As it is, you boast in your proud intentions. All such boasting is evil. 17 Therefore, whoever knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin.

    Here scripture explains that each person creates their own judgment on sin based on what is inside their mind:

    John 9:41
    "If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

    Revelation 22
    15 But outside are the dogs, - i'm not sure who this is
    the sorcerers, - i'm not sure who this is
    the sexually immoral,
    - only you know if you are cheating on your spouse, or if you are not
    - Purely an internal thing. Invisible to outside investigators.
    the murderers,
    MURDER
    • First degree murder – highest level of premeditation and indifference to the victim
    • Second degree murder – There was a definite intent to harm but not necessarily kill
    • Third degree murder – The death happened as a result of indifference or neglect
    • Fourth degree murder – Used to charge the accomplice in a homicide
    • Aggravated felony murder – the victim dies during the commission of a crime which is considered a felony (non-participant)
    • Justifiable Homicide (as in self-defense situations) is a murder classification but not a charge, because there would be no case to answer.
    MANSLAUGHTER
    • Manslaughter – implies no specific intent to kill
    • Involuntary Manslaughter – perpetrator was engaged in criminal negligent behavior but didn’t intend to take a life
    • Voluntary Manslaughter – when someone takes a life during circumstances that altered the killer’s behavior beyond their control (crimes of passion)

    You can see that the state of mind of the perpetrator is considered.

    the idolaters, - Purely an internal thing. Invisible to outside investigators.
    and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. - Purely an internal thing. Invisible to outside investigators.

    1 Corinthians
    9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
    Neither the sexually immoral, - Purely an internal thing. Invisible to outside investigators.
    nor idolaters, - Purely an internal thing. Invisible to outside investigators.
    nor adulterers, - Purely an internal thing. Invisible to outside investigators.
    nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts,
    ἀρσενοκοίτης, ἀρσενοκοιτου, ὁ (ἄρσην a male; κοίτη a bed), one who lies with a male as with a female, a sodomite
    The proper translation for this is bi-sexual, someone who sleeps with both but traditionally everyone hated gays, so they get the less accurate translation.
    God is only concerned with cheating on your partner, thus treating others poorly. This passage goes into details about the crimes they were guilty of:

    Ezekiel 16
    44“Behold, everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb concerning you, saying, ‘Like mother, like daughter.’ 45“You are the daughter of your mother,
    who loathed her husband and children. You are also the sister of your sisters,
    who loathed their husbands and children.
    Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. 46“Now your older sister is Samaria, who lives north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lives south of you, is Sodom with her daughters. 47“Yet you have not merely walked in their ways or done according to their abominations; but, as if that were too little,
    you acted more corruptly in all your conduct than they.
    48“As I live,” declares the Lord GOD, “Sodom, your sister and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done.
    49Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters
    had arrogance,
    abundant food and careless ease,
    but she did not help the poor and needy.
    50“Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me.
    Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

    1 Corinthians 6
    10 nor thieves,
    nor the greedy,
    nor drunkards,
    nor verbal abusers,
    nor swindlers,
    will inherit the kingdom of God

    We have extensive court systems where juries of peers decide what is right and wrong.
    Each person on a jury makes an internal decision about guilt on any charges
    that is based on as much information as we can get about what is going on
    INSIDE a persons mind, like "motivation".

    Motivation is always considered when properly deciding sin.
    So, no SIN is a pat charge, a done deal.
    All sins consider motivation.

    Most times, a unanimous verdict is required.
    Why would we need juries if these charges were not up for debate?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  2. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

    +496
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    It's time for definitions for Skywriting's threads on "sin"

    My Attempted DEFINITIONS:

    1. SIN = "falling short" = ANYTHING contrary to the perfect CHARACTER and ATTRIBUTES of the TRI-UNE GOD...ALL fall short!
    This is the spiritual gap between God's perfect "good" and Man's imperfections.

    2. SIN(S) = personal "missing the marks" = willful or ignorant, commission or omission, "trespasses" that cause loss of fellowship with / create a barrier between God and Man...these can be FORGIVEN!...
    For unbelievers, SALVATION...another important subject. For believers, CONFESSION (spiritually agreeing with God)

    3. SIN NATURE = the natural-born innate capacity and inclination to do / not do those things that can in no way commend Man and his "works" to God....
    This natural tendency is SPIRITUALLY changed by the SALVATION / REDEMPTION EVENT, BUT it still rears its ugly head in the BODY / SOUL combo ("flesh") during the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS.

    4. IMPUTED SIN:?...Romans 5:12. 15-17 (NIV)...Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ = IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS

    How believers deal with SIN(S) in their lives...>>> the "carnal Christ-follower " must CONFESS (agree with God)...
    1 John 1: 5-10...Walking in the light

    1 Peter 3: 15-22 (NIV1984)
    For Christ (Jesus the God-Man) died FOR (ALL) sin(s) once FOR ALL,
    the righteous (Jesus the God-Man) FOR the unrighteous,(all natural men with IMPUTED SIN)
    to bring you to God. (salvation and reconciliation)

    A Spiritually CREATED perfect Man / Angels CAN / DID exercise their own SEPARATE spiritual "free wills" against / outside of the perfect WILL of the TRI-UNE GOD. When Man REJECTS the spiritual CALLING / DRAWING of God, He becomes an UNBELIEVER whose sins are NOT forgiven.

    Romans 14:23b...
    whatever is not from (spirit-led) faith is sin.

    "SIN" :
    414 times in 269 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the NASB
    condition of sin, guilt of sin, punishment for sin, sin-offering

    OT Hebrew 2403 - "chatta'ath"

    In the NT, Greek 266 - "hamartia"

    a) to be without a share in
    b) to miss the mark
    c) to err, be mistaken
    d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
    e) to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
    2) that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
    3) collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
     
  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,565
    Christian
    Single
    Each person decides what is sin?

    Sin is the transgression of the law 1john 3:4

    The law God desires a believer to follow is written in their minds and placed on their hearts.
    Does God place different laws in different peoples minds and hearts???

    People often decide differently what is and isn't sin in an effort to appease their consciences( they can't of course succeed)
     
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Exactly.

    Likely you would recognize the difference in mind and deeds
    between a Christian who was born again yesterday, verses
    the leader of a large congregation?

    The difference in thought and action would be years of prayer and reflection.




    New International Version
    If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.

    New Living Translation
    Remember, it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it.

    English Standard Version
    So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

    Berean Study Bible
    Therefore, whoever knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin.

    Berean Literal Bible
    Therefore to the one knowing to do good, and not doing, it is sin.

    John 9:41
    "If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

    2 Peter 2:21
    It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  5. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +922
    Non-Denom
    Married
    We don't have a jury only an all knowing, perfect Judge. There is no debate about whether you or I are sinners as the bible teaches very clearly that we have All sinned. God would be perfectly just in condemming all of mankind.
    But in his love and mercy he offers us a way of salvation that we can not earn and do not deserve.
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    John 3:4
    4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

    So the law does not apply to those who don't think it.
     
  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    And for this reason, people are not qualified to judge what we think is sin.
    So we call a jury so a group of people can give their opinion on if a person has sinned.
    And a seperate judge chooses how we respond.
     
  8. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +922
    Non-Denom
    Married
    There is no need of a jury, it is God and God alone who makes that judgement.

    I think you are confusing a countries laws with Gods laws and the trial and judgement of those who break a countries laws. There a jury is vital.
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
  10. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

    +496
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    RESPONSE TO POST #6: " So the (Mosaic) Law does not apply to those who don't think it...."

    Romans 2 (NASB)
    12 For all who have sinned WITHOUT the Law will also perish without the (Mosaic) Law,(Gentiles)
    and all who have sinned UNDER the Law will be judged BY the Law;(Abramic NATIONS)
    13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
    14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law,
    these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
    15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
    16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
     
  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    God creates countries and their laws.
    But back to defining sin:

    Matthew 5:21-22: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.”
     
  12. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Yup. Those who do not know the law
    are not bound to follow
    what they do not know in their hearts.
    Pretty easy to grasp.
     
  13. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +922
    Non-Denom
    Married
    May I suggest you rethink this.
    Many countries have anti christian laws in place and enforce those laws. Are you saying that God put those laws in place, that God enforces the laws perscuting Christians?
     
  14. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

    +496
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    FROM YOUR REFERENCES

    Ezekiel 36:25
    "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

    1 John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Isaiah 44:22
    "I have wiped out your transgressions like a thick cloud And your sins like a heavy mist Return to Me, for I have redeemed you."

    Isaiah 55:7
    Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

    Micah 7:18
    Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity And passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, Because He delights in unchanging love.

    John 3:16
    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    Romans 6:23
    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Romans 5:15
    But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

    1 Timothy 2:4 ...GOD:
    who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Acts 2:21
    'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'

    Romans 5:18
    So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

    2 Peter 3:9
    The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

    Titus 2:11-12
    For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
     
  15. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,565
    Christian
    Single
    I agree you may well recognise different deeds in someone born again yesterday to ten years ago. However, the law written in the mind and placed on the heart us not a gradual process. You only get a saviour from sin because it has been placed there!
    What is in your mind, you in your mind must know.
    No need to quote verses of scripture concerning that
     
  16. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,565
    Christian
    Single
    Haven't a clue what you are getting at here
     
  17. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

    +496
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    MORE:

    Come near to God and he will come near to you.
    Wash your hands, you sinners, and
    purify your hearts, you double-minded.
    James 4:8

    Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.
    But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
    Galatians 6:1

    Have mercy on me, O God,
    according to your unfailing love;
    according to your great compassion
    blot out my transgressions.
    Wash away all my iniquity
    and cleanse me from my sin.
    Psalm 51:1-2

    Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
    It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.
    Ephesians 5:11-12

    Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the Law;
    rather, through the Law we become conscious of our sin.
    Romans 3:20
     
  18. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,565
    Christian
    Single
    Anyways:

    But now he has appeared, once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself
    Heb9:26
     
  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others

    Yes. Knowledge of Sin is entirely internal.
    No sin exists before one realizes it themselves.
    You cannot see sin in others lives.
    As a result of this, we require a score of peers
    to determine the mindset of the accused.

    The "Action" is often clear. The motive is up for debate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +2,599
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
Loading...