Simplicity in Christ?

[amariselle]

In modern language, it's akin to feeling very remorseful. When in the Bible it's turning away from wrong ideas

Yes, we need to know we are sinners, and what that means, otherwise how can we know how desperately we need our Saviour?

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Yes, we need to know we are sinners, and what that means, otherwise how can we know how desperately we need our Saviour?

It's not Biblical repentance though. It's recognition of your true standing before God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. Not hearers, but doers. That's the division line between faith and unbelief. If you truly and genuinely believe your house will imminently catch fire, you won't drink tea and laugh with co-workers but will run home and try to save your family, pets and possessions. So, your actions or works aren't part or pre-requisite of faith, but simply an outwardly manifestation of it. Like we don't see the wind but we see the tree leaves moving.

However, what I see in what is called Christianity, is total ignoring of the simplicity of Christ, complete deviation from it. For example, Jesus says don't worship in a temple or on a mountain. But we see people building "Christian" religious buildings that sometimes they happen to call "temples". Or Jesus says, don't gather any riches on earth, but strive and spend all your money on charity in order to obtain riches in heaven. Well, we see that very few people who claim to be Christ followers do it. Especially the religious leadership. They even wear the clothes of gold and gems, wear golden crosses and hold a staff clad with gold and gems. It's a complete contradiction to Jesus, which is an obvious red flag of absence of true faith.

Well ....


I'm Orthodox, which if you know anything about it, might not fall in line with what you imagine.

In some places our churches are very ornate - mostly because of beautiful depictions of important things associated with the faith, such as a depiction of the Last Supper over most of our altar tables. Do remember that God Himself commanded certain things concerning the beauty of the Temple when it was ordered to be built. It has to do with how we appreciate the majesty of God and deem Him worthy of the best we can provide.

However ... a few important points. These are so usually because of the love of the people, often over many generations, little by little adding to the beauty of the Church. And in many cases, it is not expense so much - very many of our Churches are caves, or old stone buildings, but beautifully painted, indoors, sometimes outdoors, sometimes every inch of the wall - again, over generations, and lovingly maintained.

On the other hand, if the Church is poor, I have seen those that are nothing more than a lumber frame with a roof, the most basic of furnishings as the people need, paper images of those things like the Last Supper, and usually other Churches will donate to the poor or new Church everything they need and cannot buy.

We do believe in assembling together to worship God, hear the Word, and share Communion, as has been done since the time of the Churches established by the Apostles.


But I understand your sentiment. I only mean that sometimes, things might not be as we assume from what we see. I felt the same once, but having learned what I know now, I know why and how we do what we do.

But yes, there is simplicity in following Christ.

Peace be with you. I pray I have not offended with you with anything I said.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Well ....


I'm Orthodox, which if you know anything about it, might not fall in line with what you imagine.

In some places our churches are very ornate - mostly because of beautiful depictions of important things associated with the faith, such as a depiction of the Last Supper over most of our altar tables. Do remember that God Himself commanded certain things concerning the beauty of the Temple when it was ordered to be built. It has to do with how we appreciate the majesty of God and deem Him worthy of the best we can provide.

However ... a few important points. These are so usually because of the love of the people, often over many generations, little by little adding to the beauty of the Church. And in many cases, it is not expense so much - very many of our Churches are caves, or old stone buildings, but beautifully painted, indoors, sometimes outdoors, sometimes every inch of the wall - again, over generations, and lovingly maintained.

On the other hand, if the Church is poor, I have seen those that are nothing more than a lumber frame with a roof, the most basic of furnishings as the people need, paper images of those things like the Last Supper, and usually other Churches will donate to the poor or new Church everything they need and cannot buy.

We do believe in assembling together to worship God, hear the Word, and share Communion, as has been done since the time of the Churches established by the Apostles.


But I understand your sentiment. I only mean that sometimes, things might not be as we assume from what we see. I felt the same once, but having learned what I know now, I know why and how we do what we do.

But yes, there is simplicity in following Christ.

Peace be with you. I pray I have not offended with you with anything I said.

No offence to me at all. Thank you for explaining your point of view. Well. What can I say. Jesus teaches us one thing, but of course it's up to each individual to follow it or do something entirely different.

 

[~Anastasia~]

No offence to me at all. Thank you for explaining your point of view. Well. What can I say. Jesus teaches us one thing, but of course it's up to each individual to follow it or do something entirely different.

Indeed ... we have received the faith from God, and through the Apostles.

Again, no offense, taken, nor given, hopefully.

Where others disagree with what we believe, I am of the mind that all are following God to the best of their own understanding and conscience, and that is very important, and precious to God.

God be with you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

No offence to me at all. Thank you for explaining your point of view. Well. What can I say. Jesus teaches us one thing, but of course it's up to each individual to follow it or do something entirely different.

By the way, your post count is fairly high, so I did not check to realize how new you are. Forgive me, I failed to welcome you to CF so ... welcome to CF! We are glad that you've joined us!

I'd offer help if you need any, on using the forums, but it looks like you've got that down. But if you do have any questions, please let us know. And again, welcome!

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Indeed ... we have received the faith from God, and through the Apostles.

Again, no offense, taken, nor given, hopefully.

Where others disagree with what we believe, I am of the mind that they are still following God to the best of their own understanding and conscience, and that is very important, and precious to God.

God be with you.

No offences for me, I'm a thick-skined person. I really love Lev Tolstoi. He said to church, hey guys, you don't do what Jesus says. He was right. But the church said, anathema to you apostate. He only tried to reinstate Jesus's pure teaching. But I guess Jesus wasn't welcome in religion.

 

[amariselle]

It's not Biblical repentance though. It's recognition of your true standing before God.

Yes, and turning to Christ in faith, fully trusting His sacrifice to save us, not our works.

 

[~Anastasia~]

But I guess Jesus wasn't welcome in religion.

What an odd thing to say?

All I can tell you is that everything we do is centered on Christ. I suspect that is true for most Christians, though I have been to a few fellowships that seemed to reduce everything to a self-help group. Those were individual congregations/pastors though. Overall, I think most people who claim Christ, especially the ones who are serious enough to take out time to join and discuss on forums, are devoted to Him.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

By the way, your post count is fairly high, so I did not check to realize how new you are. Forgive me, I failed to welcome you to CF so ... welcome to CF! We are glad that you've joined us!

I'd offer help if you need any, on using the forums, but it looks like you've got that down. But if you do have any questions, please let us know. And again, welcome!

Thank you so much. You did welcome me in your post about reading.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you so much. You did welcome me in your post about reading.

Ah, I see, and thank you. My apologies for having forgotten.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

What an odd thing to say?

All I can tell you is that everything we do is centered on Christ. I suspect that is true for most Christians, though I have been to a few fellowships that seemed to reduce everything to a self-help group. Those were individual congregations/pastors though. Overall, I think most people who claim Christ, especially the ones who are serious enough to take out time to join and discuss on forums, are devoted to Him.

Jesus taught certain things and quite clearly. It seems the gospels don't tell the whole story but whatever we learn there is sufficient to get an understanding. Oftentimes I see that people deviate too far away or into an opposite direction of what Jesus was teaching, but declare that they're of Jesus anyway. This seems very strange to me.

 

[TheSeabass]

True! It's part of accepting Christ. I'll edit my OP to add this most important part of our Lord's gospel.

Confession Matthew 10:32-33; Romans 10:9-10?

 

[TheSeabass]

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God..." - Hebrews 6:1

Dead works one would need to repent from are works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19) or works of the OT law (Galatians 2:16) some in the first century church were engaged in or works of self-righteousness (Romans 10:3) as those Jews were engaged in.
One needs to repent of these dead works so they can be purged by the blood of Christ, (Hebrews 9:14)

 

[amariselle]

Dead works one would need to repent from are works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19) or works of the OT law (Galatians 2:16) some in the first century church were engaged in or works of self-righteousness (Romans 10:3) as those Jews were engaged in.
One needs to repent of these dead works so they can be purged by the blood of Christ, (Hebrews 9:14)

Agreed, we cannot earn salvation in any way by our works.

 

[TheSeabass]

Agreed, we cannot earn salvation in any way by our works.

Correct, only by being obedient to the will of God can one be saved.

 

[amariselle]

Correct, only by being obedient to the will of God can one be saved.

And the will of the Father is to believe on the Son.

 

[pius463]

The Bible asks us not to "deviate from the simplicity in Christ". I see that in Christianity, salvation is often made to be something more complex than what it is. I think it's very simple. Repent and believe in Jesus Christ our God, in His death for the redemption of our sins and His resurrection. That's it. Would you agree or not and why?

I agree that "salvation is often made to be something more complex than what it is."
John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
If we dare to understand salvation based on Jesus' sayings in the Gospel, it will be more straightforward; I do not use simple or simplicity - still it is not that simple that need no musing.

I will elaborate four terms from the quote: redemption, salvation, repent, death and resurrection.

redemption
I find there's no "redemption" in Jesus' sayings. That "redemption" is very popular in Christian's believe, however, likely redemption is not the key point of salvation.

salvation
I find John 17:3 is the terminal of salvation. Now this is eternal life: that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The last words of John 6:40 say "I will raise them up at the last day". Why He is waiting for the last day? Because (referring to John 16:12-15 ) He is awaiting the Church to come to John 17:3.

As we read Matthew 16:16, Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Very likely the Church is now more or less at the same position with Peter; the Church is maintaining Peter's answer.

Jesus gave the keys of heaven to Peter (the Church); Matthew 16:19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven".

Jesus is awaiting for the Church to turn the key (John 17:3 ) on; do believe John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.
For our salvation, let's move forward from "redemption" to "know the only true God".

repent
For me, repent means to switch from believing or worshiping "our perceived God" to knowing and worshiping "the only true God"; Jesus came to lead us to know "the only true God".

We are the prodigal son and the heir of the prodigal son ( Luke 15:11-32 ), walking our personal enjoyment with a consequence that we lost the knowledge of our origin, then we have to crawl to regain the knowledge (the human history say: from being animist, to polytheist, to monotheist). Jesus came to show the way and to be the way. Without Jesus we will never regain our knowledge. We will only come to the "perceived God".
See also, Luke 13:3, Luke 13:5, John 8:24, Matthew 11:27, John 17:3.
It will be easier to understand "repent" if we understand John 3:18, John 3:5, John 3:11, Matthew 11:14; those verses lead us to John 8:24.

death and resurrection
Jesus' miracles were given to attract people to Him.
His death and His resurrection likely is His miracle - His final message for humanity to come to be His disciples and seriously to follow His teachings which lead to human salvation.

John 14:6 says that we have to follow His way (by stepping through His path / His teachings), (under guidance of the Spirit) the teachings will lead us to the truth, and the truth will bring a man into life (eternal life, John 17:3 ).

Again, let's move forward from "redemption" to "know the only true God".
Jesus is awaiting for the Church to turn the key (John 17:3) on.

No need to be complicated. Our Father in heaven is good, He is open to cheer our repentance - switching from our "perceived God" to "the only true God".
Worshiping our "perceived God" is against His will, it is the "main sin" ( John 8:24 ); other sins are just byproducts.

 

[TheSeabass]

I agree that "salvation is often made to be something more complex than what it is.

The other side of the coin is that some people make salvation less than what it really is with simple "believe onlyism"

 

[pius463]

The other side of the coin is that some people make salvation less than what it really is with simple "believe onlyism"

When we believe in Jesus, we will read and follow His teachings and not necessarily be confused with other teachings. John 13:7-8, taking feet as mind (the base of our act), then taking John 13:10 "bathing" as maintaining our spiritual life clean as possible, for we will never be perfect and pure, the things needed then is to let Jesus wash our "feet" and make us able to take part with Him.