Simple of Complicated?

[dreadnought]

Sorry - I mistyped the title. It should have read: Simple or Complicated.

It seems to me that the gospel is a very simple thing:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

What I think happens is that people are reluctant to repent of their sin, so they look for an easier way, and in so doing, make the gospel much more complicated. What do you think?

 

[timewerx]

I agree dreadnought.

It's ironic that we take the New Testament in the context of Paul's epistles, particularly the book of Romans when the synoptic Gospels were written after it (in chronological order, NOT the same order used in the Bible)

The Book of John and the epistles of John in particular was written long after any of Paul's epistles were written and yet, the contents of these books are rarely preached in the church unless the pastor is soliciting money for something.

And the books of John and epistles of John preached heavily on repentance - turning away from sins or old / worldly ways /change and that true belief bears fruit and signifies a change in a person - no change means his or her belief mean't nothing (shallow, untrue, "convenience" belief only)

And despite John wrote these materials many years later than Paul's, he did not mention many of Paul's teachings, including those that became the core theology of Christians today - belief that simply meant saying the Lord's name when John said, belief is much much more than just saying the Lord's name.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sorry - I mistyped the title. It should have read: Simple or Complicated.

It seems to me that the gospel is a very simple thing:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

What I think happens is that people are reluctant to repent of their sin, so they look for an easier way, and in so doing, make the gospel much more complicated. What do you think?

Well, I definitely don't think the Gospel is 'simple' but rather complex in nature, and moreover, I definitely also think it is complicated. How else does one explain the meaning [from a human point of view] of the Wide Path vs. the Narrow Path. It's not just about believing in Jesus over and above or instead of any other potential idol.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Sorry - I mistyped the title. It should have read: Simple or Complicated.

It seems to me that the gospel is a very simple thing:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

What I think happens is that people are reluctant to repent of their sin, so they look for an easier way, and in so doing, make the gospel much more complicated. What do you think?

It's simple AND complicated. Like C. S. Lewis said. Simple enough for any ordinary person, but more than deep enough for the intellectual. We err when we make it only complicated, like some theologians do. We err when we make it only simple, like some Fundamentalists do. It is both simple AND complex. Infinitely complex, of course, as God is infinite. Simple as God is simple. God is infinite AND simple at the same time. So is our faith.

 

[Chinchilla]

Sorry - I mistyped the title. It should have read: Simple or Complicated.

It seems to me that the gospel is a very simple thing:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

What I think happens is that people are reluctant to repent of their sin, so they look for an easier way, and in so doing, make the gospel much more complicated. What do you think?

The gospel is simple but it's not Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand but that Christ died , paid for sin and rose after 3 days .

 

[Greg J.]

The gospel is simple but it's not Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand but that Christ died , paid for sin and rose after 3 days .

A good point, that happens to be good for me to see right now for reasons unrelated to this thread.

Repent for the kingdom of God has come! (in every believer)

What needs to be said depends on what the person already knows. It is not a bad idea to start with why we need a Savior.

 

[Chinchilla]

A good point, that happens to be good for me to see right now for reasons unrelated to this thread.

Repent for the kingdom of God has come! (in every believer)

What needs to be said depends on what the person already knows. It is not a bad idea to start with why we need a Savior.

Jews believe the kingdom is at hand o yes , they try really hard to build back the temple for Messiah to come , they even pray so one of the rockets hit the Muslim's Dome temple for it to be destroyed so they can have thier temple there . They believe the time is at hand and repent seeking to build the temple .
They even have database of future priests .

Are they saved ? No
Why ?
1 Corinthians 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[bcbsr]

Sorry - I mistyped the title. It should have read: Simple or Complicated.

It seems to me that the gospel is a very simple thing:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

What I think happens is that people are reluctant to repent of their sin, so they look for an easier way, and in so doing, make the gospel much more complicated. What do you think?

The way it's expressed is in simple terms:

Acts 16:30,31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved— you and your household.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

As for works:

Rom 4:5,6 to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works

Eph 2:8,9 it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

If a person has a salvation by works mentality as did the Jews, he has to change his mind - which is what the Greek word for "repent" means. "metanoeo" from "meta"=change and "noeo"= to think.

A person is not qualified to be saved unless they cease working for it and rather putting their trust in Christ to take care of that.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think you misunderstood or misunderstand what was being pointed out and/or, more importantly, the why of it this morning.

I created a thread specifically because of what was said to you earlier here:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/simplification-of-the-word.8078206/

In large part i agree that we don't have to create an entire sermon to answer each post, but I absolutely disagree that anyone was objecting to the idea of needing to repent for sin..

The topic as a whole is far far more complicated, and I do agree you way oversimplified your statement. Then, you went one step further and took the response the wrong way - i.e. that the response meant repentance offended them.

We should be just as mindful in making sure we are explaining ourselves fully to people who dont know an answer to a question or a topic, as we should be in making sure we aren't overcomplicating matters and making things too difficult to grasp.

As always, it helps to know your audience. Some people need simple concise explanations, but if you give them make sure your not leaving out what is vital.

 

[dreadnought]

Well, I definitely don't think the Gospel is 'simple' but rather complex in nature, and moreover, I definitely also think it is complicated. How else does one explain the meaning [from a human point of view] of the Wide Path vs. the Narrow Path. It's not just about believing in Jesus over and above or instead of any other potential idol.

I would say it's about obeying the Lord. Is it all that complicated?

 

[dreadnought]

It's simple AND complicated. Like C. S. Lewis said. Simple enough for any ordinary person, but more than deep enough for the intellectual. We err when we make it only complicated, like some theologians do. We err when we make it only simple, like some Fundamentalists do. It is both simple AND complex. Infinitely complex, of course, as God is infinite. Simple as God is simple. God is infinite AND simple at the same time. So is our faith.

It can get very complicated. Does it have to?

 

[dreadnought]

The gospel is simple but it's not Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand but that Christ died , paid for sin and rose after 3 days .

But the Lord wants us to learn from our mistakes.

 

[dreadnought]

The way it's expressed is in simple terms:

Acts 16:30,31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved— you and your household.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

John 5:24 I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

As for works:

Rom 4:5,6 to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works

Eph 2:8,9 it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

If a person has a salvation by works mentality as did the Jews, he has to change his mind - which is what the Greek word for "repent" means. "metanoeo" from "meta"=change and "noeo"= to think.

A person is not qualified to be saved unless they cease working for it and rather putting their trust in Christ to take care of that.

We get ourselves into all kinds of trouble when we sin. It's easier just to repent.

 

[dreadnought]

I think you misunderstood or misunderstand what was being pointed out and/or, more importantly, the why of it this morning.

I created a thread specifically because of what was said to you earlier here:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/simplification-of-the-word.8078206/

In large part i agree that we don't have to create an entire sermon to answer each post, but I absolutely disagree that anyone was objecting to the idea of needing to repent for sin..

The topic as a whole is far far more complicated, and I do agree you way oversimplified your statement. Then, you went one step further and took the response the wrong way - i.e. that the response meant repentance offended them.

We should be just as mindful in making sure we are explaining ourselves fully to people who dont know an answer to a question or a topic, as we should be in making sure we aren't overcomplicating matters and making things too difficult to grasp.

As always, it helps to know your audience. Some people need simple concise explanations, but if you give them make sure your not leaving out what is vital.

I believe heaven is what our lives turn in to when we repent. There's only one way to find out.

 

[Chinchilla]

But the Lord wants us to learn from our mistakes.

But salvation is not by repairing our mistakes by ourselves but by his blood . 1 Peter 1:18-19

 

[dreadnought]

But salvation is not by repairing our mistakes by ourselves but by his blood . 1 Peter 1:18-19

The Lord saves us from the messes we make of our lives and expects us to learn from our mistakes. He may not step in so quickly next time.

 

[Chinchilla]

The Lord saves us from the messes we make of our lives and expects us to learn from our mistakes. He may not step in so quickly next time.

Hebrews 12:6-11 King James Version (KJV)
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I believe heaven is what our lives turn in to when we repent. There's only one way to find out.

anytime we are close to God it seems like heaven to our eyes..

But "seems" or "appears to be" is key, because as Paul said, now it's like looking through a glass darkly but then, face to face.. 1 Corinthians 13:12

So long as we are here in this life we are away from our home, and our hearts will long for home. Foreigners in a foreign land.

There is no utopia here for us even though our saved state is exponentially closer to God, and therefore more glorious, than the state of us while we were lost.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It can get very complicated. Does it have to?

It doesn't have to, no. But it has abundant depth for those who need that.

 

[dreadnought]

anytime we are close to God it seems like heaven to our eyes..

But "seems" or "appears to be" is key, because as Paul said, now it's like looking through a glass darkly but then, face to face.. 1 Corinthians 13:12

So long as we are here in this life we are away from our home, and our hearts will long for home. Foreigners in a foreign land.

There is no utopia here for us even though our saved state is exponentially closer to God, and therefore more glorious, than the state of us while we were lost.

When we sin, we experience the painful consequences of our sin. That does not seem like heaven.