Signs of the Times

Gary K

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Clearly

You're asking me to speculate about something which God has not seen fit to reveal. Theories abound, of course, but the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus are not the Federal Reserve. Believe what you like.

"When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result." {GC 445.1}
Doesn't sound very financial
Do you actually think that the churches have no role in what I've said? Why would the moral solution to the problems caused by an economic collapse, the enforcement of a Sunday law, not involve the political power of the churches? The political power of the Protestant denominations is well recognized in our nation.

Why would you stoop to creating a logical fallacy that I'm saying the FED is the equivalent of God and His law? How did you ever get that out of what I have written? I have said nothing like that.
 
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Cshuffle777

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Any body of rulers that has civil powers is a political body.
Sweeping generalization.
Civil authority is political authority. Secular authority is also political authority. The people who wield political authority are politicians.
Wordsmithery
Why would you stoop to creating a logical fallacy that I'm saying the FED is the equivalent of God and His law? How did you ever get that out of what I have written? I have said nothing like that.
It was just a hyperbolic expression. The Fed is merely one of any number of symbols that might represent the American financial complex. Wall Street, Madison Ave., Chase, Morgan, Goldman Sachs, take your pick. But try to remain calm.
Do you actually think that the churches have no role in what I've said?
Speaking of logical fallacies: All-or-nothing?
You start a thread called "Signs Of The Times" linking Revelation 13 to a Breitbart article and you seem to expect no opposition. Have you been out much lately (say, in the last 10 to 20 years)? There are nearly -0- credible news sources anymore, and Breitbart is barely on the list as being news at all. Other throwaways would be Fox, CNN, Huffington, to name a few.
Breitbart - Media Bias/Fact Check
Least Biased - Media Bias/Fact Check
Believe what you like, Friend.
 
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Gary K

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Sweeping generalization.

Wordsmithery

It was just a hyperbolic expression. The Fed is merely one of any number of symbols that might represent the American financial complex. Wall Street, Madison Ave., Chase, Morgan, Goldman Sachs, take your pick. But try to remain calm.

Speaking of logical fallacies: All-or-nothing?
You start a thread called "Signs Of The Times" linking Revelation 13 to a Breitbart article and you seem to expect no opposition. Have you been out much lately (say, in the last 10 to 20 years)? There are nearly -0- credible news sources anymore, and Breitbart is barely on the list as being news at all. Other throwaways would be Fox, CNN, Huffington, to name a few.
Breitbart - Media Bias/Fact Check
Least Biased - Media Bias/Fact Check
Believe what you like, Friend.

So, you won't even begin to address your dishonest misrepresentations of the things I've said.
 
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Cshuffle777

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So, you won't even begin to address your dishonest misrepresentations of the things I've said.
You've passed on addressing a few points yourself. This could go on forever, and I'm not holding out much hope for a settlement. You seem to be intent upon being argumentative. I've made my point as best I know how. What more is there to say?

You say the Bible and SOP say an economic crisis will be the cause of the Sunday law; I say it ain't so, because it ain't so. YouTube videos and Alf-Right sheets aren't going to convince me otherwise. I don't care if the Army lost 650 trillion dollars. That is not my cross to bear.

So you still haven't answered my initial challenge, except with a bunch of rationalizations and indirect reasoning that suits your point of view.

The constitution is irrelevant. My wife has both a criminal justice and a paralegal degree, and she assures me (although I already knew it from when I heard about it at church and verified it over 30 years ago) that when the big storm or whatever it is that's going to take the world as a complete surprise comes, martial law will be declared and when that happens, the constitution goes out the window, my friend.

This whole thing could be wrapped up in a week or two. Keep your lamps trimmed and full of oil, folks.

Make all the accusations of dishonesty and lack of fair play you want.

I think I might be done here.
 
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Gary K

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You've passed on addressing a few points yourself. This could go on forever, and I'm not holding out much hope for a settlement. You seem to be intent upon being argumentative. I've made my point as best I know how. What more is there to say?

You say the Bible and SOP say an economic crisis will be the cause of the Sunday law; I say it ain't so, because it ain't so. YouTube videos and Alf-Right sheets aren't going to convince me otherwise. I don't care if the Army lost 650 trillion dollars. That is not my cross to bear.

So you still haven't answered my initial challenge, except with a bunch of rationalizations and indirect reasoning that suits your point of view.

The constitution is irrelevant. My wife has both a criminal justice and a paralegal degree, and she assures me (although I already knew it from when I heard about it at church and verified it over 30 years ago) that when the big storm or whatever it is that's going to take the world as a complete surprise comes, martial law will be declared and when that happens, the constitution goes out the window, my friend.

This whole thing could be wrapped up in a week or two. Keep your lamps trimmed and full of oil, folks.

Make all the accusations of dishonesty and lack of fair play you want.

I think I might be done here.

I've been honest with you from beginning to end. I have not misrepresented anything you've said. You have not treated me with the same respect. I have shown the basis for my beliefs from beginning to end. Nothing I have said is in conflict with the SOP or the Bible. It is in conflict with how the church has read Ellen White's writings, but how many times throughout history has God's church misinterpreted His prophets? Why are we still here when Ellen White said we could have been in heaven a century or so ago if we, as a church, had been faithful to God? That says the church, as a whole, has not been faithful as we should have been. We lost our way or we would not still be here. Furthermore Ellen White said the church was like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. Does that mean she thought our church was faultless and getting everything right. What it tells me is that she saw major errors creeping into the church just like what happened with the early church. The primitive Christianity was lost and the devil spread falsehood wholesale leading to a loss of commitment to God and to truth. For a commitment to truth is a commitment to God for Jesus is the truth.

We have agreement on significant points so I don't understand your antagonism. You attack me over a news piece that says that a political party is pushing a totalitarian agenda and used a news source you don't like. So what? Truth is truth no matter where it comes from. The article was accurate as to what is going on in our houses of Congress. If the NYT had published the same thing I would have used them even though I have little to no trust in their agenda. Truth is what matters.

I don't care if someone disagrees with me. I'll debate my beliefs with anyone. But when I'm debating a Christian on our differences in beliefs I expect it to be an honest debate without misrepresentation of my point of view, and I certainly will not misrepresent the other person's point of view. I do not see that as being unreasonable in any way, shape, or form. How can a person expect anything less from a follower of Jesus who is the truth?

I don't dispute nearness of the end of time. In how I view things the end time moves could come at any time as we are already in the midst of an economic collapse. The evil in our nation and the world has reached such levels that our world has come completely bizarre. Truth has fallen in the streets. It's much like Jerusalem in Jeremiah's day when it reached such levels of evil that God told Jeremiah to go throughout the city to see if he could find one man who honored truth and honesty in executing judgment, and if Jeremiah could find that one man God would pardon Jerusalem. Jerusalem was destroyed so we know Jeremiah's search was fruitless.
 
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Cshuffle777

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Make all the accusations of dishonesty and lack of fair play you want.
You literally just did what I predicted here.
I've been honest with you from beginning to end. I have not misrepresented anything you've said. You have not treated me with the same respect. I have shown the basis for my beliefs from beginning to end. Nothing I have said is in conflict with the SOP or the Bible.
This is just pontificating rhetoric. It's subjective, opinionated, and I disagree with most of it.
I've been honest with you from beginning to end.
Being mistaken (however sincere and honest) can be just as dangerous as being dishonest. But I assume that you believe what you say, so I concede this point.
I have not misrepresented anything you've said.
I don't think you have but if you did, all was forgiven instantly. You see I believe forgiveness is not so much an event as it is a character attribute. I must not wait until I have been offended to pray for the power to be forgiving. I pray every day and night for the abiding spirit of forgiveness. Christ was subject to the same thing when He walked the earth. He had no time to pray that he could have the strength to forgive the high priest's guard when he struck Him. Now He is glorified so he once again possesses the attributes that He declared to Moses when He hid him in the cleft of the rock as He passed by.
You have not treated me with the same respect.
We begin to see the great gulf fixed between us here. I do not owe you any respect. Respect must be earned, and I don't even know you. Demanding respect is a bastion of the Politically Correct movement. One would do well to be rid of such notions.
I have shown the basis for my beliefs from beginning to end.
And I find them to be shaky, at best. I am entitled to my opinion. When you submit your expression of thought to a public forum, it is bound to come under scrutiny.
Nothing I have said is in conflict with the SOP or the Bible.
This is so general and sweeping as to be almost meaningless. What's more, it is untrue:
The Bible says an economic collapse will happen in the last days that will be so bad that the only people allowed to buy and sell will be those who agree to the mark oif the beast.
We know from the Bible alone that the government of the world will be a one world government that is totalitarian in nature.
We don't know how things will work out exactly from Ellen White's prophecies. We know the end point, but we do not know what exactly leads to them.
Things aren't true just because you and/or I say so. This is a human condition.
Let God be true, but every man a liar. (Romans 3:4)
We (Christians) are all recovering liars. Sanctification is a process. God even calls mistaken people liars. He winks at their ignorance for a time. I don't call anyone a liar, but I point out what I believe to be error. That's actually a constitutional right, btw.
The Pharisees and Sadducees were the Jewish politicians of their day as they were the Jewish political body of the day, the Sanhedrin. The Sanhedrin was the most powerful Jewish political body of Jesus' day.
For every harsh word Christ said of or to the secular politicians of the day, He said a thousand to the religious rulers and teachers of Israel. To depict them as bona fide politicians is simply a breach of intellectual integrity. Call this an "attack" if you like. I've seen today's church leaders wield tremendous power even in the smallest of churches, but I wouldn't call them professional politicians.

I would ask you to carefully examine your posts #31, #33, #37 and #40 to see if you could find any trace of mere speculation or statement of opinions as facts. It's only for your own benefit. People don't like to be told they're wrong. I get it. I don't mind it so much because I'm acutely aware that I am a fallible, recovering liar.

My son is in his mid-30s, and he gets so frustrated when we have a disagreement because he well knows by now that I feel no need to win. I just state my case while saying all the while that I reserve the right to be found wrong. If I detect an error in his thought process, I'll point it out but I won't insist that he agrees with me. The seed is sown. God waters and gives the increase if the seed is good. That's that. I believe it is The Ministry of Healing that says we should allow nothing to spoil or disturb our peace.
It is in conflict with how the church has read Ellen White's writings, but how many times throughout history has God's church misinterpreted His prophets?
What makes you an expert on how everyone in the church interprets the SOP? Many people are silent on this matter.
Why are we still here when Ellen White said we could have been in heaven a century or so ago if we, as a church, had been faithful to God? That says the church, as a whole, has not been faithful as we should have been. We lost our way or we would not still be here.
Here's where I agree with you 100%. Every time someone sins or suffers, it is, in large part, due and chargeable to the Adventist church in its indolence. Mrs. White even called indolence the sin of this age, if I'm not mistaken.
Furthermore Ellen White said the church was like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. Does that mean she thought our church was faultless and getting everything right.
She was not talking about the Adventist church, in particular, and I suspect you know it.
We have agreement on significant points so I don't understand your antagonism.
The reason you cant understand it is because that is not what it is. I bear you no ill will. You may not like my matter-of-fact manner of expression but it is merely disinterested (non-self-seeking) opposition, and it is pretty clear to me that you don't like opposition.
You attack me over a news piece that says that a political party is pushing a totalitarian agenda and used a news source you don't like.
Way to spin. I barely attacked the object of my point--the news service itself--but you take on the role of crimeless victim. I don't dislike Breitbart. I actually have no recollection of ever reading it. And Hyperbole (do you get out much?) is not necessarily an "attack." You might need to cultivate slightly thicker skin.

"A hyperbole is a figure of speech examples that express exaggerated thoughts or claims that must not be taken in its literal sense. This provides extra emphasis to prove how extreme a certain situation may be. These expressions are often used as a form of wit or humor, distress or even excitement; depending on how it is used in a sentence."
Taken from: 9+ Examples of Hyperbole Expressions | Examples
Truth is truth no matter where it comes from.
Amen, Brother.
I don't dispute nearness of the end of time.
Swerve. My point was not the nearness of the end of time. It was that the constitution does not nead to experience erosion to be abandoned. Try to keep up. (<--- hyperbole)

If you really believe you're being mistreated, it probably wouldn't take much to get me booted out. I'm new here and I'm quite aware that Sabbath-keepers are considered persona non-grata in these pluralist venues.
 
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Gary K

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@Gary K
By the way, as far as I am aware, you have not offended me at all. :)
But you have offended my by twisting my words into meaning things I have never said. And you have implied dishonest motivations with your accusations of "wordsmithery". These things are out and out insults to me.
 
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Gary K

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She was not talking about the Adventist church, in particular, and I suspect you know it.

.

I will answer things you have said in this post in separate posts as quoting this entire post and then responding to them with the evidence I have would make a huge post. I'm not going to do that.

Here is my response to your accusation of dishonesty on my part as to the criticisms Ellen White made of the SDA church.

To whom did Ellen White write the material found in Testimonies to Church and in her letters to SDA church members? Was it to the world at large or to the SDA church in particular?

The following was written the Battle Creek church. An SDA church.

Many look upon the great work to be accomplished for God’s people, and their prayers go up to God for help in the great harvest. But like the Jewish nation, if help does not come in just the manner they have arranged, they will not receive it, but turn from that help as the Jewish nation turned from Christ, because disappointed in the manner of his appearing. Too much poverty and humility marked his advent, and in their pride they refused him who came to give them life. In this God would have the church humble their hearts, and see the great need of correcting their ways before him, lest he visit them with judgment. Pride of dress and the external adorning is made of far more importance with many who profess godliness, than the inward adorning. Had the church all humbled themselves before God, and corrected their past errors so fully as to meet the mind of God, they would not be so deficient in estimating moral excellence of character. The light of Sr. Hannah More has gone out, which now might be burning brightly to illuminate the pathway of many who are walking in the dark paths of error and rebellion. God calls upon the church to arouse from their slumber, and with deep earnestness inquire into the grounds and causes of this self-deception among professors whose names are on the church book. Satan is deluding and cheating them in the great concern of salvation. Nothing is more treacherous than the deceitfulness of sin. It is the god of this world that deludes, and blinds, and leads to destruction. Satan does not enter with his array of temptations at once. He disguises these temptations with a semblance of good. He will mingle with amusements and folly, some little improvements, and deceived souls make it an excuse that great good is to be derived by engaging in them. This is only the deceptive part. It is Satan’s hellish arts masked. Beguiled souls take one step, then are prepared for the next. It is so much more pleasant to follow the inclinations of their own hearts than to stand as on the defensive, and resist the first insinuation of the wily foe, and thus shut out his in-comings. Oh! how Satan watches to see his bait taken so readily, and to see souls walking in the very path he has prepared. He does not want them to give up praying, and maintaining a form of religious duties, for he can thus make them more useful in his service. He unites his sophistry and deceptive snares with their experiences and professions, and thus advances his cause wonderfully. The hypocritical Pharisees prayed and fasted, observed the forms of godliness, while corrupt at heart. Satan stands by, taunting Christ and his angels with insults, “I have them! I have them! I have prepared my deception for them. Your blood is worthless here. Your intercessions and power and wonderful works may as well cease; I have them! They are mine! for all their high profession as subjects of Christ, for all they once enjoyed the illuminations of his presence, I will secure them to myself in the very face of Heaven, which they are talking about. It is such subjects as those that I can use to decoy others.” Solomon saith, “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool;” and there are hundreds such to be found among professors of godliness. Says the apostle, “We are not ignorant of his devices.” Oh! what art, what skill, what cunning, to lead to a union with the world, to seek for happiness in the amusements of the world, under the delusive idea that some good is to be gained. And thus they walk right into the net, flattering themselves that there is no evil in the way. The affections and sympathies of such are wrought upon, which lays a foundation for their illy-built confidence that they are the children of God. They compare themselves with others, and settle down satisfied that they are even better than many true Christians. But where is the deep love of Christ shining forth in their lives, its bright rays blessing others? where is their Bible? and how much is it studied? And where are their thoughts? upon Heaven and heavenly things? It is not natural for their minds to go forth in that direction. The study of God’s word is uninteresting to them. It does not possess that which excites and fevers the mind, and the natural, unrenewed heart will prefer some other book, to the study of God’s word. His attention is engrossed in self. They have no deep, earnest longings for the influence of the Spirit of God upon the mind and heart. God is not in all their thoughts. How can I have it that most of the youth in this age will come short of everlasting life? Oh! that their sound of instrumental music may cease, and they no more while away so much precious time in pleasing their own fancy. Oh! that they would devote less time to dress and vain conversation, and send forth their earnest, agonizing prayers to God, for a sound experience. There is a necessity for close self-examination, and to closely investigate in the light of God’s word, Am I sound, or am I rotten at heart? Am I renewed in Christ, or am I still carnal at heart, with an outside, new dress put on? Reign yourself up to the tribunal of God, and see as in the light of God, if there be any secret sin, any iniquity, any idol you have not sacrificed. Pray, yes, pray as you have never prayed before, that you may not be deluded by Satan’s devices, that you may not be given up to a heedless, careless, and vain spirit, and attend religious duties to quiet your own conscience. It is inappropriate for Christians in every age of the world to be lovers of pleasure, but how much more so now, when the scenes of this earth’s history are so soon to close. Surely the foundation of your hopes of everlasting life cannot be laid too sure. The welfare of your soul, and your eternal happiness, depend upon whether your foundation is built upon Christ. While others are panting after earthly enjoyments, be ye panting after the unmistakable assurance of the love of God, earnestly, fervently crying, Who will show me how to make my calling and election sure? One of the sins that constitute one of the signs of the last days, is, that professed Christians are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. Deal truly with your own souls. Search carefully. How few, after a faithful examination, can look up to Heaven and say, I am not one of those thus described. I am not a lover of pleasure more than a lover of God. How few can say, “I am dead to the world; the life I now live, is by faith on the Son of God. My life is hid with Christ in God, and when He who is my life shall appear, then shall I appear with him in glory.” The love and grace of God! Oh! precious grace! more valuable than fine gold. It elevates and ennobles the spirit beyond all other principles. It sets the heart and affections upon Heaven. While those around us may be engaged in worldly vanity, pleasure-seeking, and folly, the conversation is in Heaven, from whence we look for the Savior; the soul is reaching out after God for pardon and peace, for righteousness and true holiness. His converse with God, and contemplation of things above, transforms the soul into the likeness of Christ. {PH097 53.1}

Notice in the above quote the comparison between SDA churches and the Pharisees.

It seems to me that the Lord is giving the erring, the weak and trembling, and even those who have apostatized from the truth, a special call to come fully into the fold. But there are but few in our churches who feel that this is the case. And there are still fewer who stand where they can help such. There are more who stand directly in the way of these poor souls. Very many have an exacting spirit. They require [21] them to come to just such and such terms before they will reach to them the helping hand. Thus they hold them off at arms’ length. They have not learned that they have a special duty to go and search for these lost sheep. They must not wait till these come to them. Read the touching parable of the lost sheep. Luke 15:1-7 : “Then drew near unto Him all the publicans and sinners for to hear Him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This Man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. And He spake this parable unto them, saying, What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

The Pharisees murmured because Jesus received publicans and common sinners, and ate with them. In their self-righteousness they despised these poor sinners who gladly heard the words of Jesus. To rebuke this spirit in the scribes and Pharisees, and leave an impressive lesson for all, the Lord gave the parable of the lost sheep. Notice in particular the following points:

The ninety and nine sheep are left, and diligent search is made for the one that is lost. The entire effort is made for this unfortunate sheep. So should the effort of the church be directed in behalf of those members who are straying from the fold of Christ. And have they wandered far away, do not wait till they return before you try to help them, but go in search of them.
Testimonies to the Church vol 1 pp 21,22

Once again, notice the comparison to the Pharisees.

The work now before you must commence in your family. You have tried hard to improve outwardly; but the work has been too much on the surface, an outside work and not a work of the heart. Set your heart in order, humble yourself before God, and implore His grace to help you. Do not, like the hypocritical Pharisees, do things to make you appear devotional and righteous in the eyes of others. Break your heart before God, and know that it is impossible for you to deceive the holy angels. Your words and acts are all open to their inspection. Your motives and the intents and purposes of your heart stand revealed to their gaze. The most secret things are not hid from them. Oh, then, rend your heart, and be not overanxious to make your brethren think you are right when you are not! Be circumspect in your family. You are watching to see others’ wrongs, but do this no more. The work you have now to do is to overcome your own wrongs, to battle with your strong internal foes. Deal justly with the widow and the fatherless. Do not throw over your acts the flimsy covering of deception, to influence those whom you greatly wish would think you right, while your motives and acts will not bear the construction you would have put upon them. Testimonies to the Church vol 2 p. 88

Men in this church must feel that God wishes them to become laborers in His cause in any capacity. Unless they change their course, some will be found in a position similar to that of the Pharisees when Christ addressed them: “The publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.” Many feel secure because they profess the truth, while they do not feel its sanctifying influence upon their hearts and do not advance in the divine life.

Brethren, while you as a people profess to have light far in advance of other denominations, your works do not correspond with your profession. Many who have been in the darkness of error gladly accept the truth when it is opened to their understanding. Although they have spent their life in sin, yet when they come to God in penitence and with a sense of their sinfulness they are accepted of Him. Such persons are [615] in a more favorable position for the perfection of Christian character than are those who have had great light and have failed to improve upon it. That which leaves men and women in darkness is their neglect to improve the light and opportunities granted them. Christ hates all vain pretense. When on earth, He ever treated with tenderness the penitent, even though they had been the chief of sinners; but His denunciations fell heavily upon all hypocrisy. Testimonies to the Church vol 4 pp. 614,615

Said Christ to the angry, accusing Pharisees, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.” Were those sinless who were so ready to accuse and condemn Bro. Bell? Were their characters and lives to be searched as closely and publicly as they have searched Bro. Bell’s, some of them would appear far worse than they have tried to represent him. I hope I may not be compelled to make public the past course of students, teachers, ministers and church members, to publish the mistakes and sins of the past and present life of those who sat in judgment upon his case. I wish you all to understand, I here wash my hands of your cruel work. Testimony to the Battle Creek Church p 28

Ellen White made hundreds of statements comparing SDAs to the Pharisees. I've just given you a small smattering of her statements along these lines. Now, don't go off on her saying SDAs are similar for similar has the following meanings.

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)
Similar Sim"i*lar, a. [F. similaire, fr. L. similis like,
similar. See Same, a., and cf. Simulate.]
1. Exactly corresponding; resembling in all respects;
precisely like.
[1913 Webster]

2. Nearly corresponding; resembling in many respects;
somewhat like; having a general likeness.
[1913 Webster]

3. Homogenous; uniform. [R.] --Boyle.
[1913 Webster]
 
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Cshuffle777

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I will answer things you have said in this post in separate posts as quoting this entire post and then responding to them with the evidence I have would make a huge post. I'm not going to do that.

Here is my response to your accusation of dishonesty on my part as to the criticisms Ellen White made of the SDA church.

To whom did Ellen White write the material found in Testimonies to Church and in her letters to SDA church members? Was it to the world at large or to the SDA church in particular?

The following was written the Battle Creek church. An SDA church.



Notice in the above quote the comparison between SDA churches and the Pharisees.



Once again, notice the comparison to the Pharisees.







Ellen White made hundreds of statements comparing SDAs to the Pharisees. I've just given you a small smattering of her statements along these lines. Now, don't go off on her saying SDAs are similar for similar has the following meanings.
You always think you know what's in everyone else's heads, don't you? Go off on Mrs. White? You don't know me at all.

For every quote you find comparing the Pharisees to Adventists, you'll probably find a hundred comparing them to Christendom in general or the Catholic Church, in particular.

Believe what you want. I've long ago lost interest in this conversation.
 
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You always think you know what's in everyone else's heads, don't you? Go off on Mrs. White? You don't know me at all.

For every quote you find comparing the Pharisees to Adventists, you'll probably find a hundred comparing them to Christendom in general or the Catholic Church, in particular.

Believe what you want. I've long ago lost interest in this conversation.

All that I can know of you is the words you write directed towards me. And it's those words I am responding to. I don't post here a lot so I have not read a single post of yours until you addressed me on this thread.

Was not your statement that the statements of Ellen White on comparisons to the Pharisees did not in particular apply to SDAs? It's just not true. She condemned many SDAs, including leadership in the SDA church, of pharisaical behavior. If we don't apply her words to ourselves as SDAs how can we truly see ourselves? We will see ourselves in the light the devil wants to see ourselves, just like the Pharisees of old. This is part and parcel of righteousness by faith for we cannot understand our great need Christ's righteousness if we are not honest with ourselves.

I've had friends of mine kicked out of the church, their membership revoked by letter, without them even knowing their church membership was in question. The church board just decided to kick them out without even the courtesy of speaking to them and coming to understand who they were. They were informed by letter. That's about as impersonal as things can get. And those people no longer attend, or want anything to do with, the church. Our pharisaical attitudes have driven many people away from God. Notice, I used the word "our" in my sentence. I do not hold myself guiltless in this respect.

Ever read what Ellen White has to say about Hannah More? You might want to do a search and read it. Have you also read what Ellen White said about the treatment of a Jewish man working in our publishing institutions? You might find it very interesting. She said that if that young man lost his way because he was treated so cruelly and unjustly by his fellow believers that his blood would be upon those who drove him away. How about what she said about how her own husband was treated?

I asked you to provide evidence that I equated the FED to God's law and in your following posts you have failed to address this blatant fallacy. Why? Do you not think one SDA ought to hold another SDA to a higher standard of behavior than we see in the world? If you don't think so I think you ought to read Paul's letter to the Corinthians on their acceptance of immorality in the church and what Moses said about the results sin in the camp.. James did the same thing. He told us to confess our faults one to another and pray for one another that we might be healed.

Your original post in this thread told me that I should expect push back just because I quoted from Brietbart news. Then you say you've never even read anything from it. How can you be so judgmental over something you have no knowledge of? And your selected "truth" detector is someone who has no past other than his own claims. He said he has 25 years experience in journalism and yet no one can find any evidence of that. In fact, when pushed, he backed off his claims of experience in journalism and in reporting the news. He said he had no idea that his little bio was still on his web page. Yet those claims still exist on his site a year or so later. So, he's not exactly a truth teller. I don't see him as any kind of authority at all. I see him as an ideologist. Just not one honest enough to admit it.
 
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Cshuffle777

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I'm happy for you that you're so fully convinced of so many things. Perhaps you'll find someone here who would just love to sit and whine with you awhile. What do you want from me? I don't agree with your emphasis on criticism about things you can't change. If you lay upon yourself the duty of spreading the 3 angels' messages God will prosper you with souls won to His glory. But if you want to major in stuff that's not going to amount to hill of beans in the New Jerusalem I fear you'll just have a rough row to hoe. In any case if all you're going to do is bellyache, we're done here. You talk like I owe you something. I've got news for you...
 
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Tim Ray

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Interesting post ... really is hard to say how everything plays out and what will be the catalysts that are set off over time to make it so ... however ... we do know .... ultimately it ends up being about worship ... with the main power being (the first beast) with the second beast (governmental power - perhaps global at that time) giving it's "authority" to the first beast (doing it's "bidding" so to speak).

According to the Scriptures, the mark will be enforced by imposing economic sanctions on anyone unwilling to accept the mark:

And that no man might buy nor sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast or the number of his name…and his number is six hundred, three score and six (Revelation 13:17-18).

seems to me the first beast will rise to power first ... or could be the two powers rise somewhat simultaneously ... point is ... when that time comes (economic "take over") happens ... both powers are in place ... in control.

The first beast (religious power) is marveled at ... followed (GREAT signs & wonders) .... that is .... it is a great deception and with the second beast (state power) enforcing the first beasts "power" (ie does the "bidding" of the first beast in regard to worship).

1 Thessalonians 2

9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 11For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

and the "signs and wonders along with delusion" will effect the whole world ... (professed believers and non-believers alike)

so ... until that time ... we have this going on ...

Matthew 24:6

4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

and this ....

Matthew 24
English Standard Version
And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Revelation 14:12

Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

and so it is .... ;o) AMEN
 
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Tim Ray

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Interesting post ... really is hard to say how everything plays out and what will be the catalysts that are set off over time to make it so ... however ... we do know .... ultimately it ends up being about worship ... with the main power being (the first beast) with the second beast (governmental power - perhaps global at that time) giving it's "authority" to the first beast (doing it's "bidding" so to speak).

According to the Scriptures, the mark will be enforced by imposing economic sanctions on anyone unwilling to accept the mark:

And that no man might buy nor sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast or the number of his name…and his number is six hundred, three score and six (Revelation 13:17-18).

seems to me the first beast will rise to power first ... or could be the two powers rise somewhat simultaneously ... point is ... when that time comes (economic "take over") happens ... both powers are in place ... in control.

The first beast (religious power) is marveled at ... followed (GREAT signs & wonders) .... that is .... it is a great deception and with the second beast (state power) enforcing the first beasts "power" (ie does the "bidding" of the first beast in regard to worship).

1 Thessalonians 2

9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 11For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

and the "signs and wonders along with delusion" will effect the whole world ... (professed believers and non-believers alike)

so ... until that time ... we have this going on ...

Matthew 24:6

4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

and this ....

Matthew 24
English Standard Version
And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Revelation 14:12

Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

and so it is .... ;o) AMEN
 
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Gary K

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I ran across the following article early this morning.

The product in question is the growing of human meat from discarded human blood, your own blood, as a way to feed yourself in the coming starvation. The creator's of this have used the symbol of a coiled snake eating itself as their corporate logo, and say this is a way for people to feed themselves when they are no longer able to buy beef, chicken, pork, etc... in the supermarkets due to the destruction of agriculture products due to coronavirus lockdowns.

The UN Agenda 2030 is now being called "The Great Reset". And that is the UN plan to depopulate the world down to approximately 500 million people world wide. The prime minister of Canada came out and publicly said the government of Canada is there to help this agenda.

The rest of this article can be read at the link following the excerpt.

It's time to break out the fava beans and a nice Chianti, Clarice!

The makers of a 'DIY meal kit' for growing steaks cultured from human cell samples have offered the reassurance that the concept is not 'technically' cannibalism.

Ouroboros Steaks — named for and resembling the icon of a snake eating itself — were nominated for the London Design Museum's 2020 'Designs of the Year Award'.

While one could culture meat from cells taken by a self-administered cheek swab, the team instead used research cells from the American Tissue Culture Collection.

The cells were grown on a fungus scaffold in warm conditions for three months by feeding them with human serum sourced from expired, discarded blood donations.

The resulting product — bite-sized human steaks — have been preserved in resin and put on display in both the Design Museum and the Philadelphia Museum of Art.

Those actually keen to put a little more of themselves in their cooking, however, will find themselves disappointed — as the kits are unlikely to end up going on sale.

Instead, the designers said that they developed the concept to highlight some of the current limitations with lab-grown meat generally — and how such still harm animals.

It's time to break out the fava beans and a nice Chianti, Clarice!

The makers of a 'DIY meal kit' for growing steaks cultured from human cell samples have offered the reassurance that the concept is not 'technically' cannibalism.

Ouroboros Steaks — named for and resembling the icon of a snake eating itself — were nominated for the London Design Museum's 2020 'Designs of the Year Award'.

While one could culture meat from cells taken by a self-administered cheek swab, the team instead used research cells from the American Tissue Culture Collection.

The cells were grown on a fungus scaffold in warm conditions for three months by feeding them with human serum sourced from expired, discarded blood donations.

The resulting product — bite-sized human steaks — have been preserved in resin and put on display in both the Design Museum and the Philadelphia Museum of Art.

Those actually keen to put a little more of themselves in their cooking, however, will find themselves disappointed — as the kits are unlikely to end up going on sale.

Instead, the designers said that they developed the concept to highlight some of the current limitations with lab-grown meat generally — and how such still harm animals.

Fava beans, anyone? Growing steaks from human cells not 'technically' cannibalism, makers say | Daily Mail Online
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Why is this such an important issue? One, the Constitution mandates financial transparency so the government saying it has the ability to just lie to us about what it is doing blatently violates the Constitution.

Consider that the current Fed controlled system is what is untransparently unconstitutional. The patriots have been working towards dismantling the Fed for the last 4 years and instituting a Constitutionally sound system.
 
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