Signs a person is regenerated.

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Thank you.

In case anyone is interested, here are a couple of excerpts from Anglican theologian, Dr. J. I. Packer, on the topics of Regeneration and Justification. Hopefully they may prove to be useful.

REGENERATION
THE CHRISTIAN IS BORN AGAIN

In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
JOHN 3:3​

Regeneration is a New Testament concept that grew, it seems, out of a parabolic picture-phrase that Jesus used to show Nicodemus the inwardness and depth of the change that even religious Jews must undergo if they were ever to see and enter the kingdom of God, and so have eternal life (John 3:3-15). Jesus pictured the change as being “born again.”

The concept is of God ~renovating the heart~, the core of a person’s being, by implanting a new principle of desire, purpose, and action, a dispositional dynamic that finds expression in positive response to the gospel and its Christ. Jesus’ phrase “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) harks back to Ezekiel 36:25-27 where God is pictured as symbolically cleansing persons from sin’s pollution (by water) and bestowing a “new heart” by putting his Spirit within them. Because this is so explicit, Jesus chides Nicodemus, “Israel’s teacher,” for not understanding how new birth happens (John 3:9–10). Jesus’ point throughout is that there is no exercise of faith in himself as the supernatural Savior, no repentance, and no true discipleship apart from this new birth.

Elsewhere John teaches that belief in the Incarnation and Atonement, with faith and love, holiness and righteousness, is the fruit and proof that one is born of God (1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4). It thus appears that as there is no conversion without new birth, so there is no new birth without conversion.

I agree with this.

Though infant regeneration can be a reality when God so purposes (Luke 1:15, 41–44), the ordinary context of new birth is one of effectual calling—that is, confrontation with the gospel and illumination as to its truth and significance as a message from God to oneself. Regeneration is always the decisive element in effectual calling.

What is effectual calling?

Regeneration is monergistic: that is, entirely the work of God the Holy Spirit. It raises the elect among the spiritually dead to new life in Christ (Eph. 2:1–10). Regeneration is a transition from spiritual death to spiritual life, and conscious, intentional, active faith in Christ is its immediate ~fruit~, not its immediate ~cause~. Regeneration is the work of what Augustine called “prevenient” grace, the grace that precedes our outgoings of heart toward God.

I thought prevenient grace was the grace before justification?

JUSTIFICATION
SALVATION IS BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH​

Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
GALATIANS 3:11​

The doctrine of justification, the storm center of the Reformation, was a major concern of the apostle Paul. For him it was the heart of the gospel (Rom. 1:17; 3:21–5:21; Gal. 2:15–5:1) shaping both his message (Acts 13:38–39) and his devotion and spiritual life (2 Cor. 5:13–21; Phil. 3:4–14). Though other New Testament writers affirm the same doctrine in substance, the terms in which Protestants have affirmed and defended it for almost five centuries are drawn primarily from Paul.

Justification is a ~judicial act~ of God pardoning sinners (wicked and ungodly persons, Rom. 4:5; 3:9–24), accepting them as just, and so putting permanently right their previously estranged relationship with himself. This justifying sentence is God’s gift of righteousness (Rom. 5:15–17), his bestowal of a status of acceptance for Jesus’ sake (2 Cor. 5:21).

Is justification merely a judicial act?

God’s justifying judgment seems strange, for pronouncing sinners righteous may appear to be precisely the unjust action on the judge’s part that God’s own law forbade (Deut. 25:1; Prov. 17:15). Yet it is in fact a just judgment, for its basis is the righteousness of Jesus Christ who as “the last Adam” (1 Cor. 15:45), our representative head acting on our behalf, obeyed the law that bound us and endured the retribution for lawlessness that was our due and so (to use a medieval technical term) “merited” our justification. So we are justified justly, on the basis of justice done (Romans 3:25-26) and Christ’s righteousness reckoned to our account (Romans 5:18-19).

Is the righteousness of Christ in us, a part of justification? What I mean to ask is, what is the connection between God's reckoning of Christ's righteousness and me as I exists in myself? Also, what is meant by retribution?

God’s justifying decision is the judgment of the Last Day, declaring where we shall spend eternity, brought forward into the present and pronounced here and now. It is the last judgment that will ever be passed on our destiny; God will never go back on it, however much Satan may appeal against God’s verdict (Zech. 3:1; Rev. 12:10; Rom. 8:33–34). To be justified is to be eternally secure (Rom. 5:1–5; 8:30).

Interesting.

The necessary means, or instrumental cause, of justification is personal faith in Jesus Christ as crucified Savior and risen Lord (Rom. 4:23–25; 10:8–13). This is because the meritorious ground of our justification is entirely in Christ. As we give ourselves in faith to Jesus, Jesus gives us his gift of righteousness, so that in the very act of “closing with Christ,” as older Reformed teachers put it, we receive divine pardon and acceptance which we could not otherwise have (Gal. 2:15–16; 3:24).

So my faith doesn't have merit or value?

Official Roman Catholic theology ~includes sanctification in the definition of justification~, which it sees as a process rather than a single decisive event .. e.g. John 5:24, and affirms that while faith contributes to our acceptance with God, our works of satisfaction and merit contribute too. Rome sees baptism, viewed as a channel of sanctifying grace, as the primary instrumental cause of justification, and the sacrament of penance, whereby congruous merit is achieved through works of satisfaction, as the supplementary restorative cause whenever the grace of God’s initial acceptance is lost through mortal sin. Congruous, as distinct from condign, merit means merit that it is fitting, though not absolutely necessary, for God to reward by a fresh flow of sanctifying grace. On the Roman Catholic view, therefore, believers save themselves with the help of the grace that flows from Christ through the church’s sacramental system, and in this life no sense of confidence in God’s grace can ordinarily be had. Such teaching is a far cry from that of Paul.

~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs

--David

John 5
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, ~has~ eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
.​

I agree with the Roman Catholic view as presented here, except to say that I have confidence in God's grace.

 

[d taylor]

Well this is not a perfect example of the way receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life is but it may help people see it better.

But the point about the well illustration, like receiving Eternal Life from God.

Requires no other act from a person than, in the case of the well rescue. Taking the rope and understanding they need to tie the rope around them.

In the case of receiving God's free gift of Eternal life, this requires no other action by a person but understanding how to receive God's free gift and that is through belief, faith, trust (all the same type of actions) in The Messiah. That Jesus is The Resurrection and The Life.

A person may love, they may cry, they may feel the need to repent, they may feel joy. But these are emotions or connected to emotions (except repentance it should be an action dealing with sin in ones life). But these do not impart Eternal Life to a person, belief is the chosen way God uses to give His Eternal Life to humanity.

 

[Hammster]

Requires no other act from a person than, in the case of the well rescue. Taking the rope and understanding they need to tie the rope around them.

How does a dead man tie a rope?

 

[d taylor]

How does a dead man tie a rope?

Man is not dead, his sin has been taken care of as The Messiah is The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Sin is not an issue in tying a rope.

 

[Hammster]

Man is not dead, his sin has been taken care of as The Messiah is The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Sin is not an issue in tying a rope.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
— Ephesians 2:1

 

[d taylor]

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
— Ephesians 2:1

Man’s Role in Conversion – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Hammster]

Man’s Role in Conversion – Grace Evangelical Society

I’m not reading articles.

 

[d taylor]

I’m not reading articles.

Well you are lucky i even posted that, as i do not waste time with back and forths with calvanist/reformers.

 

[Hammster]

Well you are lucky i even posted that, as i do not waste time with back and forths with calvanist/reformers.

I’ve got the feels.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What are signs a person can look at to say "The Holy Spirit lives in me."

Baptism.
The person who has been baptized is born again and has received the Holy Spirit.

God's signs are visible, external, and objective.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Baptism is NOT the way ANYONE was ever born again.

False. Jesus Christ our God and Lord says that the new birth is "of water and the Spirit", and the Apostle St. Paul says that we have received the washing of regeneration.

This has always been the Christian faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hammster]

False. Jesus Christ our God and Lord says that the new birth is "of water and the Spirit", and the Apostle St. Paul says that we have received the washing of regeneration.

This has always been the Christian faith.

-CryptoLutheran

No. That’s a work. And if it comes before regeneration, then it’s pleasing to God, which we cannot do in the flesh.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No. That’s a work. And if it comes before regeneration, then it’s pleasing to God, which we cannot do in the flesh.

It's a work of God, yes.

Holy Baptism, however, is not a human work. The naked passive sinner receives Christ and all of Christ's perfect and finished work. The baptized has faith, through which alone he is justified; justified not by his efforts, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus freely imputed to Him by grace.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hammster]

It's a work of God, yes.

Holy Baptism, however, is not a human work. The naked passive sinner receives Christ and all of Christ's perfect and finished work. The baptized has faith, through which alone he is justified; justified not by his efforts, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus freely imputed to Him by grace.

-CryptoLutheran

The decision to be baptized is pleasing to God. It must be done in the Spirit.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Well this is not a perfect example of the way receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life is but it may help people see it better.

But the point about the well illustration, like receiving Eternal Life from God.

Requires no other act from a person than, in the case of the well rescue. Taking the rope and understanding they need to tie the rope around them.

I see. I agree. This is, an intellectual assent put into action.

In the case of receiving God's free gift of Eternal life, this requires no other action by a person but understanding how to receive God's free gift and that is through belief, faith, trust (all the same type of actions) in The Messiah. That Jesus is The Resurrection and The Life.

No. Per your explanation above, it takes more than understanding that the rope saves. The rope must be put around me.

A person may love, they may cry, they may feel the need to repent, they may feel joy. But these are emotions or connected to emotions (except repentance it should be an action dealing with sin in ones life). But these do not impart Eternal Life to a person, belief is the chosen way God uses to give His Eternal Life to humanity.

I see the confusion now. No. I apologize for not being clear. Thankfulness and love are not an emotion, although the emotions are often involved. If someone rescued me from a pit, I would hug and kiss him not just because I am feeling relieved but because it is the appropriate response. Say I find out after he rescues me that my rescuer is a KKK member and a terrible employer who beats his wife. My feelings may dictate disgust but I should not conclude from them that I shouldn't have been loving and thankful toward him for saving me.
Part of the problem people have in relationships is that their expressions of love and thankfulness are based upon the goodness they think they see in other people rather than the static and permanent love and thankfulness that has been implanted in them by the Spirit and cannot be shaken.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Man is not dead, his sin has been taken care of as The Messiah is The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Sin is not an issue in tying a rope.

@Hammster brings up a valid point. To use your analogy, the Incarnation is like the rescuer scaling the walls of the pit with the rope of his humanity/divinity tied around him. Once he reaches us, he himself ties the rope around. Have you ever seen a heralding of hell icon? Take a look at one when you have a chance. Christ is pulling a passive (limp wristed) Adam up out of death's pit (the grave).

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

@Hammster brings up a valid point. To use your analogy, the Incarnation is like the rescuer scaling the walls of the pit with the rope of his humanity/divinity tied around him. Once he reaches us, he himself ties the rope around. Have you ever seen a heralding of hell icon? Take a look at one when you have a chance. Christ is pulling a passive (limp wristed) Adam up out of death's pit (the grave).

 

[d taylor]

@Hammster brings up a valid point. To use your analogy, the Incarnation is like the rescuer scaling the walls of the pit with the rope of his humanity/divinity tied around him. Once he reaches us, he himself ties the rope around. Have you ever seen a heralding of hell icon? Take a look at one when you have a chance. Christ is pulling a passive (limp wristed) Adam up out of death's pit (the grave).

He has a valid point, you say, so tell me how a dead man walks.

 

[Hammster]

He has a valid point, you say, so tell me how a dead man walks.

He doesn’t.


But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
— Ephesians 2:4-5

 

[d taylor]

I see. I agree. This is, an intellectual assent put into action.



No. Per your explanation above, it takes more than understanding that the rope saves. The rope must be put around me.


I see the confusion now. No. I apologize for not being clear. Thankfulness and love are not an emotion, although the emotions are often involved. If someone rescued me from a pit, I would hug and kiss him not just because I am feeling relieved but because it is the appropriate response. Say I find out after he rescues me that my rescuer is a KKK member and a terrible employer who beats his wife. My feelings may dictate disgust but I should not conclude from them that I shouldn't have been loving and thankful toward him for saving me.
Part of the problem people have in relationships is that their expressions of love and thankfulness are based upon the goodness they think they see in other people rather than the static and permanent love and thankfulness that has been implanted in them by the Spirit and cannot be shaken.

That was like a said just an example and a far from perfect one.

To receive God's free gift of Eternal life, one must first understand how to receive this free gift. They must understand what God requires of a person to receive His free gift of Eternal Life.

God does not force this gift on to anyone, that would be like the rescuer tying the rope on whether you want it or not.

No God is offering the free gift, we must understand how to receive it. That is the purpose of The Gospel of John, it was written to tell people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. John 20:30,31

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.


When you speak of being appreciative to the rescuer all that is after you have been rescued. That is not the focus of the illustration. The focus is that you are in a well do you take the rope (representing God's free gift of Eternal Life) and get out or not and stay in.

It is the same with receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Do unbelievers trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life (and become born again) or not.

If not and they stay an unbeliever and will eventually be a person, who eventually ends up being judged (for their works) at the great white throne and then, sent to the lake of fire.