Sifting through news for "truth" - covid vs. flu question

SingularityOne

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I think our knowing the truth and speaking it is important during this time. However, I really don't trust mainstream news sources right now. I'm wondering what all of you think (or have found) about covid vs. the seasonal flu death rate/mortality rate comparisons. I've read an interesting post below and I've been trying to figure out if this is something that is blown out of proportion by the media, or if covid actually is something that is worse than the seasonal flu. What are y'all thinking (also let me know what you think of this post linked below along with anything you've been thinking/hearing about the similarities/differences between both covid and the seasonal flu. I want to help bring people peace, and I think that starts with me knowing the truth of it (although I know there are still uncertainties due to this being such a new virus). I trust all of y'all much more than the mainstream media, haha.

The Conspiracy of the Nations
 

archer75

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There are some reasonable concerns hiding in here, but they are mixed in with paranoid fantasies and likely fabrications.

"For example, face masks [long parenthetical remark in original] which will, it is clear, eventually (and already it may be observed) lead to tracking apps and other such things, of which it is very clear the ultimate end goal is the implanting of chips into people."

How is it clear that face masks "lead to" tracking apps, and how is it clear that the end goal is implanting chips?

I had a PC game, free, in the mid-90s. Sonewhere in there was this chip talk. I think it said the chipping would be done around the year 2000. This chip talk has been around for a while.

Why would chips be necessary when everyone voluntarily carries a tracking device and pays to update it every few years anyway?
 
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Phronema

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The CDC thinks more than 20 million people (I've actually read elsewhere the number they quoted was 24-25 million, and this was in late June) have had Coronavirus in the US, and if that's the case the mortality rate is actually much lower than previously thought. The link is below.

My thoughts? I'd just be cautious, and do the best for yourself, and your family as you can. Wear a mask, avoid crowds for now, wash your hands, and keep them away from your face. This goes doubly so if you have multiple risk factors. To be clear I'm not saying be afraid of it, but I'm saying be cautious, and do what you can to mitigate risk to yourself, and family.

CDC: At Least 20 Million Americans Have Had Coronavirus. Here's Who's At Highest Risk

Edit : There's no doubt about this being worse than the flu, and its RNA is different than the regular flu. So they're not the same. Also Coronavirus is causing people to have lasting neurological issues such as anosmia whereas the regular flu doesn't cause that problem to last. There's no doubt that's it's not a joke, and I'd not *try* to catch it like some people are. Again keep yourself safe if you can, but don't let it cause anxiety. Stay calm, and be smart about it.
 
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Hank77

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I think our knowing the truth and speaking it is important during this time. However, I really don't trust mainstream news sources right now. I'm wondering what all of you think (or have found) about covid vs. the seasonal flu death rate/mortality rate comparisons. I've read an interesting post below and I've been trying to figure out if this is something that is blown out of proportion by the media, or if covid actually is something that is worse than the seasonal flu. What are y'all thinking (also let me know what you think of this post linked below along with anything you've been thinking/hearing about the similarities/differences between both covid and the seasonal flu. I want to help bring people peace, and I think that starts with me knowing the truth of it (although I know there are still uncertainties due to this being such a new virus). I trust all of y'all much more than the mainstream media, haha.

The Conspiracy of the Nations
You can find that information on the CDC government website.
 
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SingularityOne

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There are some reasonable concerns hiding in here, but they are mixed in with paranoid fantasies and likely fabrications.

"For example, face masks [long parenthetical remark in original] which will, it is clear, eventually (and already it may be observed) lead to tracking apps and other such things, of which it is very clear the ultimate end goal is the implanting of chips into people."

How is it clear that face masks "lead to" tracking apps, and how is it clear that the end goal is implanting chips?

I had a PC game, free, in the mid-90s. Sonewhere in there was this chip talk. I think it said the chipping would be done around the year 2000. This chip talk has been around for a while.

Why would chips be necessary when everyone voluntarily carries a tracking device and pays to update it every few years anyway?
Yeah, I mean the chips aspect I’m skeptical about too, but still seems like there’s a lot of truth in the article itself other than that. The chip seems to be his own opinion from what I read.
 
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SingularityOne

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The CDC thinks more than 20 million people (I've actually read elsewhere the number they quoted was 24-25 million, and this was in late June) have had Coronavirus in the US, and if that's the case the mortality rate is actually much lower than previously thought. The link is below.

My thoughts? I'd just be cautious, and do the best for yourself, and your family as you can. Wear a mask, avoid crowds for now, wash your hands, and keep them away from your face. This goes doubly so if you have multiple risk factors. To be clear I'm not saying be afraid of it, but I'm saying be cautious, and do what you can to mitigate risk to yourself, and family.

CDC: At Least 20 Million Americans Have Had Coronavirus. Here's Who's At Highest Risk

Edit : There's no doubt about this being worse than the flu, and its RNA is different than the regular flu. So they're not the same. Also Coronavirus is causing people to have lasting neurological issues such as anosmia whereas the regular flu doesn't cause that problem to last. There's no doubt that's it's not a joke, and I'd not *try* to catch it like some people are. Again keep yourself safe if you can, but don't let it cause anxiety. Stay calm, and be smart about it.
I mean, I’ve had it myself already. So I think I’m immune. But, this is helpful. Thanks for the info you’ve gathered.

Are you trusting of the CDC’s data?

I’ve heard that some hospitals are putting covid deaths for anyone with respiratory issues which would heighten the mortality rate.

I’ve also heard that asymptomatic spread is “very rare.”
 
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gzt

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The CDC thinks more than 20 million people (I've actually read elsewhere the number they quoted was 24-25 million, and this was in late June) have had Coronavirus in the US, and if that's the case the mortality rate is actually much lower than previously thought.
100,000/20,000,000 = 0.5% which is not "much lower" than previously thought, it's around the lower end of what we thought it might be.
 
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gzt

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I mean, I’ve had it myself already. So I think I’m immune. But, this is helpful. Thanks for the info you’ve gathered.

Are you trusting of the CDC’s data?

I’ve heard that some hospitals are putting covid deaths for anyone with respiratory issues which would heighten the mortality rate.

I’ve also heard that asymptomatic spread is “very rare.”
Lord have mercy, I'm glad you recovered with apparently little trouble.

You've heard wrong about that.

What they meant when they said that is that what we were previously labeling as "asymptomatic spread" turned out to usually be *presymptomatic* spread or people in fact had low-grade symptoms which they were not reporting. Truly asymptomatic spread - spread from people who were infected but never showed any symptoms during the entire course of their infection - seem to be rare.
 
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gzt

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Anyway, I think it's dangerous and wrong to spread this conspiracy theory nonsense and that finding it credible harms your reputation: it's generally full of holes and relies on untrustworthy data sources as well as a very small model of the world - GK Chesterton has a lot to say about conspiracy theorists which you might do well to read.
 
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SingularityOne

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Lord have mercy, I'm glad you recovered with apparently little trouble.

You've heard wrong about that.

What they meant when they said that is that what we were previously labeling as "asymptomatic spread" turned out to usually be *presymptomatic* spread or people in fact had low-grade symptoms which they were not reporting. Truly asymptomatic spread - spread from people who were infected but never showed any symptoms during the entire course of their infection - seem to be rare.

Thank you. It had the effects of a mild flu for me.

I also mean those who have had it and don’t have symptoms anymore. Aka; I can’t spread it to other people now that I’ve recovered. I’ll have to look into this more considering the distinction you just made. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
 
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SingularityOne

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Anyway, I think it's dangerous and wrong to spread this conspiracy theory nonsense and that finding it credible harms your reputation: it's generally full of holes and relies on untrustworthy data sources as well as a very small model of the world - GK Chesterton has a lot to say about conspiracy theorists which you might do well to read.
Do you mind sharing with me where I can find that GK Chesterton writing in conspiracy theorists? I’m interested in reading it.
 
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gzt

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Thank you. It had the effects of a mild flu for me.

I also mean those who have had it and don’t have symptoms anymore. Aka; I can’t spread it to other people now that I’ve recovered. I’ll have to look into this more considering the distinction you just made. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
You are correct that once you've recovered, you almost certainly have no risk of passing along the disease.
 
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gzt

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Do you mind sharing with me where I can find that GK Chesterton writing in conspiracy theorists? I’m interested in reading it.
He has a whole bit about it in Orthodoxy, I'll have to look up which chapter but that is perhaps enough for you to go on until I dig the book out.
 
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archer75

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He has a whole bit about it in Orthodoxy, I'll have to look up which chapter but that is perhaps enough for you to go on until I dig the book out.
This?

***

The last thing that can be said of a lunatic is that his actions are causeless. If any human acts may loosely be called causeless, they are the minor acts of a healthy man; whistling as he walks; slashing the grass with a stick; kicking his heels or rubbing his hands. It is the happy man who does the useless things; the sick man is not strong enough to be idle. It is exactly such careless and causeless actions that the madman could never understand; for the madman (like the determinist) generally sees too much cause in everything. The madman would read a conspiratorial significance into those empty activities. He would think that the lopping of the grass was an attack on private property. He would think that the kicking of the heels was a signal to an accomplice. If the madman could for an instant become careless, he would become sane. Every one who has had the misfortune to talk with people in the heart or on the edge of mental disorder, knows that their most sinister quality is a horrible clarity of detail; a connecting of one thing with another in a map more elaborate than a maze. If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment. He is not hampered by a sense of humour or by charity, or by the dumb certainties of experience. He is the more logical for losing certain sane affections. Indeed, the common phrase for insanity is in this respect a misleading one. The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason.

The madman's explanation of a thing is always complete, and often in a purely rational sense satisfactory. Or, to speak more strictly, the insane explanation, if not conclusive, is at least unanswerable; this may be observed specially in the two or three commonest kinds of madness. If a man says (for instance) that men have a conspiracy against him, you cannot dispute it except by saying that all the men deny that they are conspirators; which is exactly what conspirators would do. His explanation covers the facts as much as yours. Or if a man says that he is the rightful King of England, it is no complete answer to say that the existing authorities call him mad; for if he were King of England that might be the wisest thing for the existing authorities to do. Or if a man says that he is Jesus Christ, it is no answer to tell him that the world denies his divinity; for the world denied Christ's.

Nevertheless he is wrong. But if we attempt to trace his error in exact terms, we shall not find it quite so easy as we had supposed. Perhaps the nearest we can get to expressing it is to say this: that his mind moves in a perfect but narrow circle. A small circle is quite as infinite as a large circle; but, though it is quite as infinite, it is not so large. In the same way the insane explanation is quite as complete as the sane one, but it is not so large. A bullet is quite as round as the world, but it is not the world. There is such a thing as a narrow universality; there is such a thing as a small and cramped eternity; you may see it in many modern religions. Now, speaking quite externally and empirically, we may say that the strongest and most unmistakable MARK of madness is this combination between a logical completeness and a spiritual contraction. The lunatic's theory explains a large number of things, but it does not explain them in a large way. I mean that if you or I were dealing with a mind that was growing morbid, we should be chiefly concerned not so much to give it arguments as to give it air, to convince it that there was something cleaner and cooler outside the suffocation of a single argument. Suppose, for instance, it were the first case that I took as typical; suppose it were the case of a man who accused everybody of conspiring against him. If we could express our deepest feelings of protest and appeal against this obsession, I suppose we should say something like this: "Oh, I admit that you have your case and have it by heart, and that many things do fit into other things as you say. I admit that your explanation explains a great deal; but what a great deal it leaves out! Are there no other stories in the world except yours; and are all men busy with your business? Suppose we grant the details; perhaps when the man in the street did not seem to see you it was only his cunning; perhaps when the policeman asked you your name it was only because he knew it already. But how much happier you would be if you only knew that these people cared nothing about you! How much larger your life would be if your self could become smaller in it; if you could really look at other men with common curiosity and pleasure; if you could see them walking as they are in their sunny selfishness and their virile indifference! You would begin to be interested in them, because they were not interested in you. You would break out of this tiny and tawdry theatre in which your own little plot is always being played, and you would find yourself under a freer sky, in a street full of splendid strangers." Or suppose it were the second case of madness, that of a man who claims the crown, your impulse would be to answer, "All right! Perhaps you know that you are the King of England; but why do you care? Make one magnificent effort and you will be a human being and look down on all the kings of the earth." Or it might be the third case, of the madman who called himself Christ. If we said what we felt, we should say, "So you are the Creator and Redeemer of the world: but what a small world it must be! What a little heaven you must inhabit, with angels no bigger than butterflies! How sad it must be to be God; and an inadequate God! Is there really no life fuller and no love more marvellous than yours; and is it really in your small and painful pity that all flesh must put its faith? How much happier you would be, how much more of you there would be, if the hammer of a higher God could smash your small cosmos, scattering the stars like spangles, and leave you in the open, free like other men to look up as well as down!"
 
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SingularityOne

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This?

***

The last thing that can be said of a lunatic is that his actions are causeless. If any human acts may loosely be called causeless, they are the minor acts of a healthy man; whistling as he walks; slashing the grass with a stick; kicking his heels or rubbing his hands. It is the happy man who does the useless things; the sick man is not strong enough to be idle. It is exactly such careless and causeless actions that the madman could never understand; for the madman (like the determinist) generally sees too much cause in everything. The madman would read a conspiratorial significance into those empty activities. He would think that the lopping of the grass was an attack on private property. He would think that the kicking of the heels was a signal to an accomplice. If the madman could for an instant become careless, he would become sane. Every one who has had the misfortune to talk with people in the heart or on the edge of mental disorder, knows that their most sinister quality is a horrible clarity of detail; a connecting of one thing with another in a map more elaborate than a maze. If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment. He is not hampered by a sense of humour or by charity, or by the dumb certainties of experience. He is the more logical for losing certain sane affections. Indeed, the common phrase for insanity is in this respect a misleading one. The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason.

The madman's explanation of a thing is always complete, and often in a purely rational sense satisfactory. Or, to speak more strictly, the insane explanation, if not conclusive, is at least unanswerable; this may be observed specially in the two or three commonest kinds of madness. If a man says (for instance) that men have a conspiracy against him, you cannot dispute it except by saying that all the men deny that they are conspirators; which is exactly what conspirators would do. His explanation covers the facts as much as yours. Or if a man says that he is the rightful King of England, it is no complete answer to say that the existing authorities call him mad; for if he were King of England that might be the wisest thing for the existing authorities to do. Or if a man says that he is Jesus Christ, it is no answer to tell him that the world denies his divinity; for the world denied Christ's.

Nevertheless he is wrong. But if we attempt to trace his error in exact terms, we shall not find it quite so easy as we had supposed. Perhaps the nearest we can get to expressing it is to say this: that his mind moves in a perfect but narrow circle. A small circle is quite as infinite as a large circle; but, though it is quite as infinite, it is not so large. In the same way the insane explanation is quite as complete as the sane one, but it is not so large. A bullet is quite as round as the world, but it is not the world. There is such a thing as a narrow universality; there is such a thing as a small and cramped eternity; you may see it in many modern religions. Now, speaking quite externally and empirically, we may say that the strongest and most unmistakable MARK of madness is this combination between a logical completeness and a spiritual contraction. The lunatic's theory explains a large number of things, but it does not explain them in a large way. I mean that if you or I were dealing with a mind that was growing morbid, we should be chiefly concerned not so much to give it arguments as to give it air, to convince it that there was something cleaner and cooler outside the suffocation of a single argument. Suppose, for instance, it were the first case that I took as typical; suppose it were the case of a man who accused everybody of conspiring against him. If we could express our deepest feelings of protest and appeal against this obsession, I suppose we should say something like this: "Oh, I admit that you have your case and have it by heart, and that many things do fit into other things as you say. I admit that your explanation explains a great deal; but what a great deal it leaves out! Are there no other stories in the world except yours; and are all men busy with your business? Suppose we grant the details; perhaps when the man in the street did not seem to see you it was only his cunning; perhaps when the policeman asked you your name it was only because he knew it already. But how much happier you would be if you only knew that these people cared nothing about you! How much larger your life would be if your self could become smaller in it; if you could really look at other men with common curiosity and pleasure; if you could see them walking as they are in their sunny selfishness and their virile indifference! You would begin to be interested in them, because they were not interested in you. You would break out of this tiny and tawdry theatre in which your own little plot is always being played, and you would find yourself under a freer sky, in a street full of splendid strangers." Or suppose it were the second case of madness, that of a man who claims the crown, your impulse would be to answer, "All right! Perhaps you know that you are the King of England; but why do you care? Make one magnificent effort and you will be a human being and look down on all the kings of the earth." Or it might be the third case, of the madman who called himself Christ. If we said what we felt, we should say, "So you are the Creator and Redeemer of the world: but what a small world it must be! What a little heaven you must inhabit, with angels no bigger than butterflies! How sad it must be to be God; and an inadequate God! Is there really no life fuller and no love more marvellous than yours; and is it really in your small and painful pity that all flesh must put its faith? How much happier you would be, how much more of you there would be, if the hammer of a higher God could smash your small cosmos, scattering the stars like spangles, and leave you in the open, free like other men to look up as well as down!"
Thank you
 
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SingularityOne

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I personally don't know how the implementation of chips even if attempted would be effective. the world does have a love (pretty much wherever you go), with sports and especially contact sports.
Yeah, the chip part I don’t necessarily believe, but there are other parts that I do believe. Parts have truth, but the chip part sounds like a strong opinion that could be wrong.
 
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SingularityOne

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My wife knows four nurses now who have contracted COVID-19. Each one was down with heavy flu-like symptoms feeling like garbage for almost four weeks.
Lord have mercy. I’m glad they are better now. Thanks for letting me know. I’m sure they were in a higher risk category compared to me.
 
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archer75

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Yeah, the chip part I don’t necessarily believe, but there are other parts that I do believe. Parts have truth, but the chip part sounds like a strong opinion that could be wrong.
The thing is, if someone exhibits paranoid or incoherent thinking, all their thinking becomes suspect. Masks have nothing to do with chips. So look elsewhere to make your decisions.

In my opinion, exercise a lot of caution, but not to the point of insanity.
 
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