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Sickness, Faith, and Healing

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Greeter, Aug 24, 2002.

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  1. SUNSTONE

    SUNSTONE Christian Warrior

    +205
    Non-Denom
    When Jesus died for us, we were given his power to heal. That doesn't have anything to do with pain when you bring a child into this earth.
    The bible talks about the end times and how the earth will have birth pains.
    That doesn't mean I wouldn't pray for the pain to go away during child birth, but its not something that is wrong like a broken arm or a cold.

     

    By his strips we are...pain free :p
     
  2. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

    +1,089
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    My wife is now 6 months pregnant with our second child.  We fully expect a wonderful delivery without any pain this time, and even faster than before.


    Praise God! A painless and safe childbirth be unto this dear sister. Let it amaze the people. A blessed child born who will walk with the Lord!

    Amen!

    Didaskalos
     
  3. sn00zles

    sn00zles New Member

    12
    +0
    I know my friend's mum said that she didn't experience birth pains.

    Just my humble point of view, but I don't see why some of you are getting personal and often sarcastic with your messages/replies. We all worship and serve the same God.

    Romans 14:1 "Welcome those who are weak in faith, but do not argue with them about their personal opinions"


    14:5 "Some people think that a certain day is more important than other days, while others think that all days are the same. WE EACH SHOULD MAKE UP OUR OWN MINDS"


    14:6 "Those who think highly of a certain day do so in honour of the Lord; those who will eat anything do so in honour of the Lord..."

    All I'm saying is that some of these messages seemed to be ridiculing or putting down a certain belief or worse, the person writing about it.

    Whatever we believe, we all live and are guided by the Spirit of God, and His will is done in our individual lives accordingly
     
  4. sn00zles

    sn00zles New Member

    12
    +0
    Personally, I agree with Quaffer and Andrew in their views on healing - in that basically we can be healed by faith.  The bible reiterates that so many times. 

    However, not all of us have that faith.  I know that I don't have the measure of faith required because I am still weak.  If our faith is a gift from God (and it is), then it just shows that it is God's plan that not all of us be healed whilst we are still in the flesh, because not all of us will have the faith needed immediately, or indeed ever in our lifetime.  (which I believe is what lambslove and Dave have been saying...)     

    I think we can only keep praying for God to help us build our faith, and trust that in all God does, He does out of love for us. 

     

     

     

     
     
  5. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Faith comes by hearing, hearing what, hearing God.

    No one had more faith than Jesus.  But Jesus said that He would do nothing untill the Father showed it Him.  He would not even believe for something unless the Father lead Him to believe.

    So which is the Correct order.

    We believe God (for something) / God speak's / It comes to pass

    God speak's / We believe God (for what He spoke) / It comes to pass

    The example that Jesus gave is that of the second.  Let our doctrine follow Christ's example.

    Faith comes by hearing, hearing what, hearing God.  Hearing comes by what, by the written word.  So let us all learn to hear.
     
  6. sola fide

    sola fide neo-Puritan

    323
    +6
    Calvinist
    Not trying to be a pessimist(excuse the spelling), but if women are redeemed from birth pains...does that mean that men are redeemed from working the ground which was cursed because of sin? (Gen. 3:17-19)
    Are we redeemed from physical death? For the wages of sin is death right?
    If we are completely healed then why must we die?

    Soli Deo gloria!
     
  7. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    The answer is Yes and Yes.

    Working for God carries no burdon, we are told by Paul to do everything for the glory of God. In this way we will always be filled with joy no matter what the task.

    In Christ we do not die, rather we are translated. To die physically in the presence of God will be a glorious thing. There you are dieing and God becomes more real then you have ever imagined. How can we who believe ever look at death in the body as a bad thing.

    For the wages of sin is eternal death.
     
  8. sola fide

    sola fide neo-Puritan

    323
    +6
    Calvinist
    Funny, I never read the word eternal in Romans 6:23. I have no question that Christ's redemtion is perfect and complete. But we still must face certain consequences of the law. Life is not "perfect", even in Christ, by temporal standards. The sweet by and by will be perfect...but even as a well known charismatic, John Osteen said...we don't live in the sweet by and by, we live in the nasty now and now. Some redemptive aspects are eternal, not temporal, and we must live with that fact in all faith and humility. Sickness, death, etc. can be a tool used by God in His eternal purpose.

    Working for God carries no burden?

    Galatians 6:2,5-
    "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ...
    For every man shall bear his own burden."

    Soli Deo gloria!
     
  9. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    It should be clearly understood that Christ saves us from Hell which is the consiquence of sin. 

    The bible does tell us that we are seated in heavenly places with Christ.  So I must ask you is this your reality?

    I did not say that there was no burdens left to bear, only that doing God's work was not a burdon.  God desires that we only do His work.  But He knows that there are things that way us down, things that we are not ready to let go of.  But He wants to bear those for us.  But if we cannot let them go, Paul says that we should help each other so that none are left behind.
     
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    quote "Not trying to be a pessimist(excuse the spelling), but if women are redeemed from birth pains...does that mean that men are redeemed from working the ground which was cursed because of sin? (Gen. 3:17-19)"

    there's a difference. man was created to work. God told Adam to tend the garden. rule over it, etc. you cant do that just sitting down in front of a TV.

    the curse was work with sweat -- hard labour -- maximum input, minimum results. so yes, there are Christians who work without the stress and tears, they enjoy their work, put in the required efforts and reap maximum results.

    also, our bodies were not redeemed at the cross. only our spirit. but our bodies will be redeemed at the rapture/resurrection -- that's when we will get new glorified bodies and live in a body forever. a body that is not fallen.

    what we are redeemed from is sickness, so that we may live long productive and satsifying lives for God. God does say:"With long life I will satisfy you and show you my salvation".

    QUOTE: "Sickness, death, etc. can be a tool used by God in His eternal purpose."

    that's only true if you mean: When the devil throws lemons at you, God turns the situation around and makes lemonade for you. But if you mean God himself throws the lemons at you, then it contradicts scripture because it is the devil who comes to steal kill and destroy, not God.
     
  11. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

    +125
    Christian
    Married
    A "quick" 8 hour delivery with only minimal pain killers was an easy pain free birth? Why were local anesthetics needed if it was pain free? My mother birthed me with no pain killers, she is into the natural child birth thing. I don't doubt for a second that God was at work. Congrats on a healthy child, but it came through pain.

    Andrew mentioned women who gave pain free births, call me a skeptic, but I don't go for that. Do I believe it is possible? Yes I do. Do I think women give birth without pain? No. And whats with this christian book phenomenon? Just because a christian wrote it does not mean it lines up with the truths of God. Don't get me started on the prayer of Jabez !
     
  12. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

    +125
    Christian
    Married

    "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. "

    Well, who knows friend. Spend more time with christians of different denominations and you might find yourself in the same situation.

    We are better off in agreement, but I find this type of discussion to be valuable. I have stated in a different post that I give blessings to people I disagree with theologically, as long as they preach Christ.
     
  13. DaveKerwin

    DaveKerwin Represent the Most High

    +125
    Christian
    Married
    If all Andrew and Quaffer said is that God can heal us, and that we should have faith, then I would agree completely. The only thing I don't line up with is the notion that it is God's will for ALL people to have good health, no matter what. I believe God can have purpose in my sickness. Andrew would rebuke me for saying this, add some devil talk, and whatnot. But I believe that God's work is not limited if I have a cold. I also believe that God can leave someone with a sickness for his own purpose. Key word : CAN.
     
  14. Loser For Jesus

    Loser For Jesus Member

    212
    +0
    Christian
    Married
    No, we don't.

    Gal 1:6-7  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- (7) which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

    It's quite clear from the intensity of disagreement on this topic, and the others concerned with the whole "Faith Movement," that we don't all worship and serve the same God.

    Let's not try to be all nice and fluffy about this, in a vain effort to maintain harmony. Let's not compromise the truth for the sake of a false unity.

    Either those who are arguing for the "Word of Faith" style camp are correct, or they're not. If they are correct, then I - since I can only speak for myself on this point - am certainly not worshipping and serving the same God as they are. If they are not correct then, equally, they are not serving the same God as I am.

    Can you imagine Elijah standing on Mount Carmel and saying, "Now, come on everyone, let's all just calm down. After all, we all worship the same God."

    Jude 1:11-13  Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion. (12) These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm--shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted--twice dead. (13) They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

    love in Christ,

    Malcolm
     
  15. Loser For Jesus

    Loser For Jesus Member

    212
    +0
    Christian
    Married
    Indeed, "The Prayer of Jabez" book wasn't written by a Christian in the first place. Call me judgmental - and I'm sure someone will - but that should really be a "no brainer."

    love in Christ,

    Malcolm
     
  16. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,302
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    Hey All,

    Here's some testimony's regarding health and prosperity.

    TESTIMONY #1

    The  happened to me just this last week.  My little dog Wigglesworth (Wiggles for short) is 15 yrs old and for the last, I'd says 5 yrs I have been praying in regards to the removal of a large cyst on his body.  It started out small but grew to about 2" in length and about 1" wide and 1" high. 

    I have not been able to afford to take him to a vet for it's removal but prayed for him routinely.  Everytime I would run my hand over it I would say, "Lord, I thank you for a healthy dog.  I thank you that when it's his time to go it will be because he's old, not sick.  I thank you that You give me the authority to curse this cyst and I thank You that it cannot stay on him and do him any harm.  Well, like I said, he's 15 and still quite bouncy.  Well, the other day I was running my hand over the area and the cyst is gone.  All that was there was the flabby skin where it had been.  :clap:

    TESTIMONY #2

    I've been praying for a few years for a VCR and this Tues night, a friend gave me one.  :clap:

    TESTIMONY #3

    This happend to some pastor friends of mine, Barry & Judy.

    They are beginning to prepare for their oldest daughter to go to college.  They were asked by a traveling evangelist to head up his campmeeting this year and during that campmeeting they felt impressed by God to give toward the offering and name their "seed" as seed toward sending their daughter to college.  They are not rich but the Lord has always met their needs in miraculous was.  ALWAYS!

    Well, a few weeks ago Barry's grandmother died and Barry was asked to do the funeral.  Barry and Judy both sang at the funeral as well. 

    Afterwords the man who was driving the herse came up and introduced himself. He's in his 80's and retired and drives the herse at the funeral home just to keep busy. He told them that at his church he also played the piano and sang but heard something in their music that he was missing. They explained to him "the anointing" and he agreed that "yes" that was what he was missing.

    He then went on to tell them he was having a birthday party the next week and would they come. They agreed.

    Then Judy mentioned that her father, also retired, use to work part time at a funeral home. This man asked who her dad was and Judy showed him a picture. The man knew her dad. He also noticed a picure of Kimberly, their daughter. He asked about her.

    He said, well, ya know I've been saving up all the money I've made from driving a herse for quite a few years now and I was just thinking that it's getting rather big and was thinking about where I might put it. He said, I believe that would be a good thing and there is enough to send her all the way through college and I'd like to give it to you.   :clap:

    But that's not all  :D

    He noticed a picture of their other daughter Jennifer. He said, I'm up in years but still healthy and don't plan to go anytime soon, but before I go I'd like to also make sure to give you enough to send her too.

    He said I'm not sure if there's enough in the fund to cover both but the local Masons will cover the rest.

    Judy very quickly told him that she did not think the Masons would want to support the children of 2 Penticostal preachers.

    He straightened himself up and said, "they will when you're the president of it."

    Prov 13:22 set in motion: "the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just." YES!   :clap:
     
  17. Loser For Jesus

    Loser For Jesus Member

    212
    +0
    Christian
    Married
    Yes, God is certainly answering your prayers. Just like he really does answer the prayers of all those who dilligently pray the "prayer of Jabez." I'm not being sarcastic here. I genuinely do believe that God is answering those prayers. Rather than rejoicing in it, though, I find it tragic.

    2 Th 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
    2 Th 2:12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    love in Christ,
    Malcolm
     
  18. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    The pain that my wife experieced was less then the average woman experinces.  Given my wifes condition at the time, her pain should have been considerably greater.  It is a simple conclusion to say that she only experienced pain because she had a condition she did not know about.  In her words, there was fear there.  This is the real cause that pain was present.

     
     
  19. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Why dont you read the book Supernatural Childbirth by Jackie Mize, call her and her hubby up and ask her and the other women who testify in her book if they experienced birth pains after claiming the promises of God, besides conceiving when doctors told them it was impossible. There are women in my church who have given birth without pain, but then of course, you'd say I'm lying.
    "

    When you can look at a snake and say, "hey grow legs and walk around" and it happens, let me know :) Its part of the same curse.
     
  20. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "The pain that my wife experieced was less then the average woman experinces. "

    Oh? so she experienced pain, uh oh..not faithful enough right? ;)

    Sorry, I'm not going to beat myself up when I experience pain or sickness, its the result of living in a fallen world, something that's not fixable.

    Good post LFC.
     
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