My grandfather was an atheist who cursed God on almost a daily basis. He lived in good health until he died at age 90. Was it faith that kept him alive?
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Sickness, Faith, and Healing
- Thread starter Greeter
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My grandfather was an atheist who cursed God on almost a daily basis. He lived in good health until he died at age 90. Was it faith that kept him alive?
quote: "My mom was a student nurse when she got a needle-stick from a patient with hepatitis. She got hepatitis, too. My sister the nurse got an ugly skin infection from one of her patients. Did that happen because they had weak faith, or because a pathogen invaded their bodies? "
What did your Mom and sister believe? The world's explanation/science: "YES you'll get sick too!" Have you ever asked them if they believed wholeheartedly in their heart this verse:
Mr 16:18* They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
no, they were probably ignorant of this verse or even if they were aware, they prob think its a figure of speech. so they had no faith in the area of healing and divine health. they may have faith in other areas but not here.
God says "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge" not lack of good intentions. If u pick up a 1000V live wire, you'll still fry, no matter how holy/faithful you r. its called ignorance.
What did your Mom and sister believe? The world's explanation/science: "YES you'll get sick too!" Have you ever asked them if they believed wholeheartedly in their heart this verse:
Mr 16:18* They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
no, they were probably ignorant of this verse or even if they were aware, they prob think its a figure of speech. so they had no faith in the area of healing and divine health. they may have faith in other areas but not here.
God says "My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge" not lack of good intentions. If u pick up a 1000V live wire, you'll still fry, no matter how holy/faithful you r. its called ignorance.
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DaveKerwin
Represent the Most High
Originally posted by lambslove
If sickness is caused by weak faith, why do vaccinations work? Do they build up a person's faith somehow?
If by getting a shot you can get more faith in God, then show me where to get that shot!!!
I am totally gonna get some more vaccinations.
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"My grandfather was an atheist who cursed God on almost a daily basis. He lived in good health until he died at age 90. Was it faith that kept him alive?"
u c, that's the problem when we start going by testimonies. we can always counter each other's arguments with experiences and testimonies. why not go by the word.
as for your grandpa, wldnt you say God in his grace blessed him with good health, despite his cursings?, so that it is his goodness that leads us to repentance? God send the rain on the just and unjust.
so becos of this testimony, do we then ignore God's Word on healing? Or if I show you another counter testimony, do we then decide to believe? that's standingon shaky ground.
why not see what the Word says.
u guys can laugh all you want at those who believe in healing and divine health. But when push comes to shove, when your doc tells you you've some incurable disease, then you've got nothing to cling to, no hope, if you reject God's Word on healing.
u c, that's the problem when we start going by testimonies. we can always counter each other's arguments with experiences and testimonies. why not go by the word.
as for your grandpa, wldnt you say God in his grace blessed him with good health, despite his cursings?, so that it is his goodness that leads us to repentance? God send the rain on the just and unjust.
so becos of this testimony, do we then ignore God's Word on healing? Or if I show you another counter testimony, do we then decide to believe? that's standingon shaky ground.
why not see what the Word says.
u guys can laugh all you want at those who believe in healing and divine health. But when push comes to shove, when your doc tells you you've some incurable disease, then you've got nothing to cling to, no hope, if you reject God's Word on healing.
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My mom was a big believer in faith healing. Her cousin was healed of terminal brain cancer and her neighbor was healed of end-stage uterine cancer in separate instances, by faith, long after all medical treatments failed. They had both been sent home to die, yet each of them healed and lived by faith. Mom was not in anyway ignorant of anything. Your words are meant to judge my mother and hurt me, and I resent that.
Yet, she not only got hepatitis when exposed to the disease, she later died young from heart faliure. Not because she lacked faith, but because ALL LIVING THINGS DIE.
What planet do you live on where there are living things that never die, but live on and on in bodily form? Not here on earth, where everything that lives eventually dies.
I take it that you personally know people who have been alive for hundreds or thousands of years?
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"I take it that you personally know people who have been alive for hundreds or thousands of years?"
you're totally off track here so I wont bother replying -- no one's talking about staying physically alive forever in this fallen body. i'm talking abt living healthier longer lives.
Perhaps you are now against healing and divine health coz you are bitter abt what happened to your mom/sis.
since you're sensitive abt it, then i wont discuss it any further with you.
LET God be true and every man a liar. I wont ignore God's Word on healing just becos of some -ve testimonies.
you're totally off track here so I wont bother replying -- no one's talking about staying physically alive forever in this fallen body. i'm talking abt living healthier longer lives.
Perhaps you are now against healing and divine health coz you are bitter abt what happened to your mom/sis.
since you're sensitive abt it, then i wont discuss it any further with you.
LET God be true and every man a liar. I wont ignore God's Word on healing just becos of some -ve testimonies.
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Exactly my point. God blessed him with life, although he had NO faith in God. Our lives don't depend on our faith, but on God's faithfulness. Life and health come to us, not because of anything great thing we do, but because God ordains it so for his own reasons, lest we should boast.
If anyone is standing on shaky gorund, it is you, brother. You are promising something that even God never promised. You are trying to put words in God's mouth and force people to believe false promises of healing for all.
I'm fully aware of what the word says. Nice way to judge again. You're pretty much superior to everyone else, aren't you, at least in your own mind. Have you considered making yourself familiar with the passage of the Bible that says, "By claiming to be wise, they showed themselves to be fools"? You seem a little "puffed up" to me.
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I am neither bitter nor against healing. My sister is fine and my mother is in heaven. What is there to be bitter against?
And I have witnessed actual healings. How could I be against what I know to be true?
If anything, you are afraid to discuss this any further, not to spare my feelings, but to spare yourself from having to re-examine your beliefs.
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- Jun 13, 2002
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Greeter,
How refreshing your questions are. They make the time spent here worth it.
Andrew and Droobie have explained things pretty clearly. But your question of "how do you build your faith?" struck me as something I wanted to have a part in answering.
Andrew is very corrrect in saying "get away from all those who would say you're supposed to be sick, etc."
Please bare with me as I share what I went through and how God has taught me to grow my faith.
A few yrs ago, I was employed full time in a ministry orginization. I had worked there for 8 1/2 yrs.
For about the last 3 or 4 yrs of employment I began to suffer with extreme monthly bleeding. Then, it reached a point where the bleeding never stopped. I could closely relate to the woman with the issue of blood. For those who think that that was impossible, trust me, it's not. I bled continuously, everyday, all month, for months. And frequent hemmorging.
I was under doctors care, but nothing they did would stop the bleeding. They first put me on birth control, which helped but the bleeding did not stop. Then they increased the dosage of the birth control and that caused other problems. So they put me on some other stuff, which helped but still did not stop it. Then they tried the shots. It still never stopped.
At one point, when they took my blood count the nurse paled and rushed out of the room. When she came back she said she had to call the doctor because the count was so low. The doctor asked her if they were giving me a transfusion, and she said, "no, she walked in here". It was God's grace that I was functioning in that condition.
It was during that time that I began to seek God ardently for my healing. My job did not have adequate medical coverage for me to have surgery. Nor, would I continue to get paid for the time off work. So in my opinion, I had no choice. I had nobody paying my bills but me.
God began to show that my faith needed to be built and I began to seek out how to do that.
I began to listen to Kenneth Copeland. Week after week I would listen and I'd have questions. Much like the questions I've seen on this site. Sometimes I would not understand, and I'd fume over it for the week. When I'd listen the next week what I'd fumed over would be answered.
Then the light came on. I began to understand.
God showed me that my thoughts and my words were what was causing my lack of faith in that area of my life. He showed me that was the same problem with my finances as well. The reason for my sickness, I believe was a demonic attack. And I believe that because no medical method would work. (my own opinion)
So, I consciously began to change my words. It caused quite a stir amongst the christians I worked with. When I would share what God was showing me and the little bit of improvement I had seen as a result I was pelted with ridicule. I was told that God gave me a brain for a purpose and He expected me to use wisdom.
I was told all kinds of stories about how this person or that person had stood in faith and died anyway. And along with all the physical strength that was flowing out of my body my spiritual strength began to flow out too.
I fought discouragement. One time, I literally did, run out of the room because of all the words of discouragement coming at me from their mouths. I understand they meant well. But they did not understand that "death and life are in the power of the tongue". And with their tongue they were speaking death to me.
Through some other circumstances I stopped working for that ministry. The Lord led me to the job I'm currently at where I work mainly with non-christians who are kinder than the christians I worked with. What the enemy had intended for evil, God turned to good.
Anyway, to continue, the health situation persisted but GREATLY improved when I got away from all the negative talk. At one point I asked God for a scripture that I could claim for my situation and He gave me Romans 8:2-4 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
That scripture took on a whole different meaning for me after that. When I called the dr the next day after God gave me that scripture, I was telling the nurse what had been happening with my body over the weekend. It had been a particularlly bad weekend. The words out of her mouth stunned me. She said, "well, that's the law". I said, "excuse me?" She said, "oh, I mean that's the way things work as you get older". Hmm, I thought her choice of words quite interesting.
I wish I could say that my faith grew to the point that my body manifested miraculous healing. But it did not. I don't condemn myself in that and neither does God. Satan is the one who comes alongside and condemns us. he wanted me to become discouraged and think that I was condemned by others for not having enough faith. In reality, it was not them condemning it was him. We need to understand that when we start feeling like we're failing. It's not in our strength that we do anything, it's in His strength.
I did see marked improvement in my stanima through this ordeal. In Oct of last year when I went to my doctor, who is a "faith" believer, she said that she felt it was time to have it medically taken care of. There were many cysts covering my uterous and tubes. I was anemic. I was tired. I was tired emotionally and physically. I was tired of the enemy beating me up and interferring with my life.
My current job paid for everything. I continued to get a paychek the whole six weeks I was off work. Before I went into surgery at the end of January, I infomed the devil he had not won. I informed him that as a result of his attack on my body that everyone who touched my body was claimed for the kingdom of God. That meant that every surgion, the nurses, the anestheologist, whoever, was claimed for the kingdom. I won.
Now I know that you're freinds can't just have surgery and make it all go away. But they can change their words and their company. You're friend has made a start by saying he is healed, because he is. I don't know how long each person will have to stand in faith. It may be years. It may be the rest of their lives. But at least they can go, standing in faith. Not allowing the devil to defeat them mentally or physically.
As for my health now . . . it's quite good. I have a lot more energy and am looking forward to more. Like Andrew, compared to the rest of the people around me I very, rarely am sick. And when I am it does not last as long as others around me nor is it as severe. I can't remember the last time I had an upset stomach. I don't get headaches very often either. I use to have migranes so bad that I would find myself heaving into that chair in the bathroom.
So, to try and make this long story short, in order to make your faith grow you have to feed it. Feed it with the Word of God. Feed it by hanging around people who are trying to grow their faith too. Feed it by speaking only what God says. Such as: my body is doing this but the Word of God says, I'm healed. With me, I used my scripture by saying, "body, according to the law of sin and death what is happening right now I have to put up with. But God's Word says I am free from that law. Body, you must line up with the Word of God." You may feel stupid at first (that's the devil lying to you), but keep at it. You'll be amazed at how much stronger you'll begin to feel.
In order to make lack of faith die, we must starve it. Stop feeding on what the world says about your situation. Stop feeding with others who listen to what the world says about your situation and want to tell you all about it. Don't listen to anyone who tells you about their friends, cousins, friend who tried all that and died anyway. You'll be amazed at all the negative horror stories that seem to come out of the woodwork when you start trying to grow in any area, not just faith.
Most of all. . .hold on. Don't give up. No matter what your experiencing in the physical it does not change what God says. That does not mean you deny what's going on physically. You do deny it's right to be there though. You take care of what you have to take care of. But keep speaking what God says.
Praise and thank God that he's given you His Word as a sword to fight all those principalities in the heavenlies. Rejoice that you are saved and that the enemy is under your feet. Dance before the Lord and imagine yourself dancing on the head of the enemy. It works.
Your joy will increase. And the word says "the joy of The Lord is your strength". It's hard work standing in faith. You need all the strength you can get.
Note to others: as for grandpa living to 90 it was most likely in his genes to live to 120. And, like Andrew said, God's mercy, giving grandpa more time to repent.
And for vacinations working, again, God's mercy on people. Man could not have found the vacinations without God giving them the power to do so.
I don't know what the others believe, but I do not believe it's wrong to go to a doctor unless, you know that God has specifically told you not to. If you wonder if you should see a doctor, do it.
Abraham--dead.
Mary and Martha--dead
Lazarus--dead
St John--dead
Where is it written these people died of disease? The 1st time Lazarus died it was disease, but where does it say it the 2nd time? Old age is not disease.
Be blessed,
How refreshing your questions are. They make the time spent here worth it.
Andrew and Droobie have explained things pretty clearly. But your question of "how do you build your faith?" struck me as something I wanted to have a part in answering.
Andrew is very corrrect in saying "get away from all those who would say you're supposed to be sick, etc."
Please bare with me as I share what I went through and how God has taught me to grow my faith.
A few yrs ago, I was employed full time in a ministry orginization. I had worked there for 8 1/2 yrs.
For about the last 3 or 4 yrs of employment I began to suffer with extreme monthly bleeding. Then, it reached a point where the bleeding never stopped. I could closely relate to the woman with the issue of blood. For those who think that that was impossible, trust me, it's not. I bled continuously, everyday, all month, for months. And frequent hemmorging.
I was under doctors care, but nothing they did would stop the bleeding. They first put me on birth control, which helped but the bleeding did not stop. Then they increased the dosage of the birth control and that caused other problems. So they put me on some other stuff, which helped but still did not stop it. Then they tried the shots. It still never stopped.
At one point, when they took my blood count the nurse paled and rushed out of the room. When she came back she said she had to call the doctor because the count was so low. The doctor asked her if they were giving me a transfusion, and she said, "no, she walked in here". It was God's grace that I was functioning in that condition.
It was during that time that I began to seek God ardently for my healing. My job did not have adequate medical coverage for me to have surgery. Nor, would I continue to get paid for the time off work. So in my opinion, I had no choice. I had nobody paying my bills but me.
God began to show that my faith needed to be built and I began to seek out how to do that.
I began to listen to Kenneth Copeland. Week after week I would listen and I'd have questions. Much like the questions I've seen on this site. Sometimes I would not understand, and I'd fume over it for the week. When I'd listen the next week what I'd fumed over would be answered.
Then the light came on. I began to understand.
God showed me that my thoughts and my words were what was causing my lack of faith in that area of my life. He showed me that was the same problem with my finances as well. The reason for my sickness, I believe was a demonic attack. And I believe that because no medical method would work. (my own opinion)
So, I consciously began to change my words. It caused quite a stir amongst the christians I worked with. When I would share what God was showing me and the little bit of improvement I had seen as a result I was pelted with ridicule. I was told that God gave me a brain for a purpose and He expected me to use wisdom.
I was told all kinds of stories about how this person or that person had stood in faith and died anyway. And along with all the physical strength that was flowing out of my body my spiritual strength began to flow out too.
I fought discouragement. One time, I literally did, run out of the room because of all the words of discouragement coming at me from their mouths. I understand they meant well. But they did not understand that "death and life are in the power of the tongue". And with their tongue they were speaking death to me.
Through some other circumstances I stopped working for that ministry. The Lord led me to the job I'm currently at where I work mainly with non-christians who are kinder than the christians I worked with. What the enemy had intended for evil, God turned to good.
Anyway, to continue, the health situation persisted but GREATLY improved when I got away from all the negative talk. At one point I asked God for a scripture that I could claim for my situation and He gave me Romans 8:2-4 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
That scripture took on a whole different meaning for me after that. When I called the dr the next day after God gave me that scripture, I was telling the nurse what had been happening with my body over the weekend. It had been a particularlly bad weekend. The words out of her mouth stunned me. She said, "well, that's the law". I said, "excuse me?" She said, "oh, I mean that's the way things work as you get older". Hmm, I thought her choice of words quite interesting.
I wish I could say that my faith grew to the point that my body manifested miraculous healing. But it did not. I don't condemn myself in that and neither does God. Satan is the one who comes alongside and condemns us. he wanted me to become discouraged and think that I was condemned by others for not having enough faith. In reality, it was not them condemning it was him. We need to understand that when we start feeling like we're failing. It's not in our strength that we do anything, it's in His strength.
I did see marked improvement in my stanima through this ordeal. In Oct of last year when I went to my doctor, who is a "faith" believer, she said that she felt it was time to have it medically taken care of. There were many cysts covering my uterous and tubes. I was anemic. I was tired. I was tired emotionally and physically. I was tired of the enemy beating me up and interferring with my life.
My current job paid for everything. I continued to get a paychek the whole six weeks I was off work. Before I went into surgery at the end of January, I infomed the devil he had not won. I informed him that as a result of his attack on my body that everyone who touched my body was claimed for the kingdom of God. That meant that every surgion, the nurses, the anestheologist, whoever, was claimed for the kingdom. I won.
Now I know that you're freinds can't just have surgery and make it all go away. But they can change their words and their company. You're friend has made a start by saying he is healed, because he is. I don't know how long each person will have to stand in faith. It may be years. It may be the rest of their lives. But at least they can go, standing in faith. Not allowing the devil to defeat them mentally or physically.
As for my health now . . . it's quite good. I have a lot more energy and am looking forward to more. Like Andrew, compared to the rest of the people around me I very, rarely am sick. And when I am it does not last as long as others around me nor is it as severe. I can't remember the last time I had an upset stomach. I don't get headaches very often either. I use to have migranes so bad that I would find myself heaving into that chair in the bathroom.
So, to try and make this long story short, in order to make your faith grow you have to feed it. Feed it with the Word of God. Feed it by hanging around people who are trying to grow their faith too. Feed it by speaking only what God says. Such as: my body is doing this but the Word of God says, I'm healed. With me, I used my scripture by saying, "body, according to the law of sin and death what is happening right now I have to put up with. But God's Word says I am free from that law. Body, you must line up with the Word of God." You may feel stupid at first (that's the devil lying to you), but keep at it. You'll be amazed at how much stronger you'll begin to feel.
In order to make lack of faith die, we must starve it. Stop feeding on what the world says about your situation. Stop feeding with others who listen to what the world says about your situation and want to tell you all about it. Don't listen to anyone who tells you about their friends, cousins, friend who tried all that and died anyway. You'll be amazed at all the negative horror stories that seem to come out of the woodwork when you start trying to grow in any area, not just faith.
Most of all. . .hold on. Don't give up. No matter what your experiencing in the physical it does not change what God says. That does not mean you deny what's going on physically. You do deny it's right to be there though. You take care of what you have to take care of. But keep speaking what God says.
Praise and thank God that he's given you His Word as a sword to fight all those principalities in the heavenlies. Rejoice that you are saved and that the enemy is under your feet. Dance before the Lord and imagine yourself dancing on the head of the enemy. It works.
Your joy will increase. And the word says "the joy of The Lord is your strength". It's hard work standing in faith. You need all the strength you can get.
Note to others: as for grandpa living to 90 it was most likely in his genes to live to 120. And, like Andrew said, God's mercy, giving grandpa more time to repent.
And for vacinations working, again, God's mercy on people. Man could not have found the vacinations without God giving them the power to do so.
I don't know what the others believe, but I do not believe it's wrong to go to a doctor unless, you know that God has specifically told you not to. If you wonder if you should see a doctor, do it.
Abraham--dead.
Mary and Martha--dead
Lazarus--dead
St John--dead
Where is it written these people died of disease? The 1st time Lazarus died it was disease, but where does it say it the 2nd time? Old age is not disease.
Be blessed,
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"Our lives don't depend on our faith, but on God's faithfulness."
For we walk by faith, not by sight. So throw faith out the window.
"You are promising something that even God never promised."
"With his stripes we were healed", "With long life will I satisfy you and show you my salvation", "Surely he has borne our pains and sicknesses".... it is you who's taking away God's promises and pulling wool over others.
"You're pretty much superior to everyone else, aren't you, at least in your own mind. Have you considered making yourself familiar with the passage of the Bible that says, "By claiming to be wise, they showed themselves to be fools"? You seem a little "puffed up" to me."
you seem a little touchy and sensitive now, so can't have a meaningful discussion when someone's emotional. so goodnight.
For we walk by faith, not by sight. So throw faith out the window.
"You are promising something that even God never promised."
"With his stripes we were healed", "With long life will I satisfy you and show you my salvation", "Surely he has borne our pains and sicknesses".... it is you who's taking away God's promises and pulling wool over others.
"You're pretty much superior to everyone else, aren't you, at least in your own mind. Have you considered making yourself familiar with the passage of the Bible that says, "By claiming to be wise, they showed themselves to be fools"? You seem a little "puffed up" to me."
you seem a little touchy and sensitive now, so can't have a meaningful discussion when someone's emotional. so goodnight.
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Regards the matter of healing I have always taken the biblical instruction literally any time I have fallen ill.
I have also always been careful to avoid the words "faith healing" prefering rather to say "devine healing" since the actual healing comes from God, in response to the faith. Notice also the faith required to pray for the healing does not necessarily come from the sick person. It's the one doing the praying. These are my thoughts on the matter anyway!
I have also always been careful to avoid the words "faith healing" prefering rather to say "devine healing" since the actual healing comes from God, in response to the faith. Notice also the faith required to pray for the healing does not necessarily come from the sick person. It's the one doing the praying. These are my thoughts on the matter anyway!
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I'm not being emotional, andrew, you are. I'm not agreeing with you, and my statements make rational sense and that frightens you, so you don't want listen to me anymore. Fear runs away. Faith stands and answers.
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DaveKerwin
Represent the Most High
Lambslove, I agree, Andrew is avoiding questions.
Quaffer, you no longer suffer from bleeding because you went under the knife. Yes, God can use a surgeon, but you were not healed PURELY because you willed it so. If that were the case, you never would have gone to a doctor.
If I am sick, guess what, I am gonna pray that God heals me. You better believe that. I don't like being sick and I doubt anyone does. But I find it absurd to say that it is God's will for ALL people in ALL places in ALL situations to be free from any and all forms of sickness. That is not true, and scripture does NOT back that up.
Andrew, you made the case to not give testimony, and provide scripture instead. Notice how you used the example of the guy who lived to 85. This is not to attack you, just showing that you are not as consistant as you make yourself out to be. And I agree with Lambslove, you have a constant need to be right, and you will dismiss questions if need be in order to avoid being wrong. I have yet to see ANY convincing scripture that shows God's will for all people in all places in all situations to be completely healthy.
If I have a headache, I might chill out and drink some water. You might turn it into some demonic attach. If I get diahrrea, I won't curse the devil and claim healing. I will just take care of business and remember not to eat so much ice cream and hot fudge next time.
Why put all the attention on being sick? Why don't we put our attention on something different like being in sin?
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- Jun 13, 2002
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I don't quite understand your statement. I did not will my self to not be healed . . .I was simply tired of fighting. And I honestly admitted that. I guess some people believe that about going to a doctor, but I do not. I don't believe God's Word agrees with that concept either.
If I were sinning, I could put the attention on that, but I am not.
The main problem seems to be that it is very difficult to tell truth to people who already believe they know all the truth. And they take offense when they are told something different from what they've believed all their lives. I believe I referenced that in my testimony. I too took offense. But kept digging at it until I finely understood. That's not a put-down for those who still don't understand.
No one, that I can see is being put down for low faith. We all are low in faith on something. It was Abraham Lincoln who said, "we are all ignorant. . .only on different subjects." By that statement do you believe Abraham Lincoln was putting you down because you don't know anything about being a rocket scientist? If not, why would you think that being told you are low on faith make you think you are being put down? Jesus is not putting you down. And I am not either.
Sickness can come because of a variety of reasons. Eating too much ice cream can definately be one of them
. It can also be because of sin, such as getting sexually transmitted disease due to promiscuity. Or ulsers due to lack of forgiveness, etc, etc. Or it can be carelessness or ignorance. Or it can be just because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or it can be a demonic attack. I don't know. I also don't understand your last statement. Is that something you really believe about yourself? Or you just believe that's what Andrew says?
Being in agreement with the devil can be as simple as dissagreeing with what God says. It's not something that is unchangable.
I don't want to argue. I just want to share what God has given me and if someone can benefit from that, I praise Him for it. If not, that's nothing I can do anything about.
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DaveKerwin
Represent the Most High
Originally posted by Quaffer
I don't quite understand your statement. I did not will my self to not be healed . . .I was simply tired of fighting. And I honestly admitted that. I guess some people believe that about going to a doctor, but I do not. I don't believe God's Word agrees with that concept either.
If I were sinning, I could put the attention on that, but I am not.
The main problem seems to be that it is very difficult to tell truth to people who already believe they know all the truth. And they take offense when they are told something different from what they've believed all their lives. I believe I referenced that in my testimony. I too took offense. But kept digging at it until I finely understood. That's not a put-down for those who still don't understand.
Sickness can come because of a variety of reasons. Eating too much ice cream can definately be one of them
I also don't understand your last statement. Is that something you really believe about yourself? Or you just believe that's what Andrew says?
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I understand you were tired of fighting, hence the visits to the doctor. A person in your same situation may not have come the the conclusion that God will's people healthy only. That was all I was trying to point out.
Right, eating too much ice cream and getting a stomach ache does not mean I am outside of God's will for my health. It means I ate too much ice cream, and thats all it means. I will repeat, a stomach ache from eating too much ice cream only means I ate too much ice cream, nothing else.
I would be an absolute FOOL to believe what Andrew said about me. I don't believe it for a second. My sig is a lame attempt at using sarcasm to make a point.
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What a lovely world Quaffer and Andrew live in. It is much easier and more comforting to believe in a one-dimensional God who wills everyone to be perfectly healthy than it is to ask the hard questions about why God allows suffering, and why do some of His most faithful believers get sick, and what role should we believers have in alleviating the suffering of others.
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I hardly think that my experience conveyed that my world is perfect. In which sentence of my testimony did you see me saying that? I shared from my heart what God brought me through. And what He taught me through it. I believe your attack to be unwarrented.
I do not, for a second, believe it was His will for me to be sick. I've already explained that there are a variety of reasons people get and/or remain sick. I personally don't believe it's because God wants them that way. That does not mean that my world is perfect or that I think any of these people are sinfull.
I have great compassion for those who are sick. I don't know why each one is where they are. But I don't believe God made them that way. It's wonderful that people continue to serve God and bring Him glory even though they are experiencing very difficult things. But it's the person bringing Glory to God, not that persons illness.
My having to run out of church during services because I began hemmoraging brought no Glory to God. It continuously kept me out of church. It kept me from being part of things that I knew God had called me to, for fear that I would have to flee to the bathroom. It interrupted my job, my social life, my sleep, everything.
But my continuing to serve Him with joy (not grumbling and complaining), no matter what I was expericnecing did bring Him glory. My continuing to be faithful in following through with what I was learning about healing brought Him glory. There were some days all I wanted to do was lay in bed and cry. There were some days where I did just cry while my "faith friends" laid hands on me and prayed. Through the strength of Jesus and their prayers, I survived. It was an extremely difficult time. And it went on for years.
Good, faithfull people get sick. Some die. That does not make them bad nor does it change God's Word. It's not a sin to be sick. Let me repeat that. IT'S NOT A SIN TO BE SICK!!!!!
All I can do is incourage you to get alone with the Holy Spirit and your Bible and ask Him, that if what I am saying about healing is true, to help you understand. He is faithful. And, if it's me who is wrong, then please, pray for me, that the Holy Spirit will show me.
Neither Andrew or I, that I could see, said that if you get sick because you were caring for someone else who was sick, was out of God's will. That statement was said facetiously by Dave. And then it got carried a little further by lambslove.
Neither one of us, that I could see, said that living things should never die, even of old age. Again, that was said by lambslove.
Neither of us is trying to force anyone to believe what they do not want to believe. We just want to share what God has shown us. If you don't want it, you don't have to believe it. We will still fellowship together in heaven.
I'm sorry that you have taken offense. That was never my intent. It was a difficult thing for me to share that testimony because I knew that some would take offense. But God directed me to share it.
My healing may have come via the knife of a surgeon, but it was none the less, God, who did the healing. God gave the surgeon his life. God gave the surgeon the skill. God gave the surgeon the knowledge. And then God, directed my steps to that surgeons office and that surgeon (who was not a christian), whether he knows it or not, has been exposed to God, because he came in contact with me. That's divine healing!
In His grip,
Barbara
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LouisBooth
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"But I don't believe God made them that way"
Hmm... Ecc 7:14
"IT'S NOT A SIN TO BE SICK!!!!! "
So why can't christ have been sick then Just a side comment.
"Neither of us is trying to force anyone to believe what they do not want to believe. We just want to share what God has shown us. If you don't want it, you don't have to believe it. We will still fellowship together in heaven. "
I agree, but I don't think it was God that showed you that. I think you took something he did show you..he does bring healing..and you took it too far by adding in the word ALWAYS.
I think this converstation with God happens a lot in the world...
" God heal me" God: No. for my strenght is made perfect in your weakness.
What's more of a testiment. A person stricken with cancer still praising the Lord DESPITE the physical, or a healthy man praising the Lord. In human standards I'd say the former. Like the 3 wacky kids in the OT said, "even if he doesn't, I'll still praise him."
Hmm... Ecc 7:14
"IT'S NOT A SIN TO BE SICK!!!!! "
So why can't christ have been sick then
Just a side comment."Neither of us is trying to force anyone to believe what they do not want to believe. We just want to share what God has shown us. If you don't want it, you don't have to believe it. We will still fellowship together in heaven. "
I agree, but I don't think it was God that showed you that. I think you took something he did show you..he does bring healing..and you took it too far by adding in the word ALWAYS.
I think this converstation with God happens a lot in the world...
" God heal me" God: No. for my strenght is made perfect in your weakness.
What's more of a testiment. A person stricken with cancer still praising the Lord DESPITE the physical, or a healthy man praising the Lord. In human standards I'd say the former. Like the 3 wacky kids in the OT said, "even if he doesn't, I'll still praise him."
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Originally posted by LouisBooth
"But I don't believe God made them that way"
Hmm... Ecc 7:14
"IT'S NOT A SIN TO BE SICK!!!!! "
So why can't christ have been sick then
"Neither of us is trying to force anyone to believe what they do not want to believe. We just want to share what God has shown us. If you don't want it, you don't have to believe it. We will still fellowship together in heaven. "
I agree, but I don't think it was God that showed you that. I think you took something he did show you..he does bring healing..and you took it too far by adding in the word ALWAYS.
I think this converstation with God happens a lot in the world...
" God heal me" God: No. for my strenght is made perfect in your weakness.
What's more of a testiment. A person stricken with cancer still praising the Lord DESPITE the physical, or a healthy man praising the Lord. In human standards I'd say the former. Like the 3 wacky kids in the OT said, "even if he doesn't, I'll still praise him."
Like I said, we can at least come to agreement on one thing. Pray and ask God to show you if you are wrong or show me if I am wrong. Are you able to do that Louis?
I don't want to argue with anyone on this. I know, without a doubt, God's voice. And I know what He's shown me and already proven to me. But I'm open to His correction. How about you?
Also, please point out what part of my testimony I used the word "always". I've searched for it and can't find it.
The scripture correctly quoted is (KJV) "And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: (notice the word NO does not appear) for my strength is made perfect in weakness. "
So, my weakness is made perfect in His strength.
Louis, I believe you twist my words and have me saying things I know in my heart I am not saying. I'm sorry if I am an irritation to you. Please, instead of cutting at me, pray for me. It will be better for both of us.
Thankyou,
Barbara
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LouisBooth
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"Pray and ask God to show you if you are wrong or show me if I am wrong. Are you able to do that Louis? "
did that the first day this issue came up Quaff. He hasn't told me any different everyday after that when I prayed about it.
"How about you?"
very much so, been turned around on a great many things by him.
"The scripture correctly quoted is (KJV) "And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: (notice the word NO does not appear) for my strength is made perfect in weakness. " "
the word trinity isn't mentioned in the bible either, its clearly implied though, just like that no.
"I'm sorry if I am an irritation to you. Please, instead of cutting at me, pray for me. It will be better for both of us."
You don't irriated me at all quaf. I also don't "cut" at you. I don't twist your words, I say exactly what you tell me. I'm not into taking people out of context, nor putting words in their mouths. Ask around Most of my friends know me for that exactly. A teacher I had said that to me expressly also. We were discussing in class and she sais something in relation to me and I piped up, nooooo I didn't say that, I said this.
did that the first day this issue came up Quaff. He hasn't told me any different everyday after that when I prayed about it.
"How about you?"
very much so, been turned around on a great many things by him.
"The scripture correctly quoted is (KJV) "And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: (notice the word NO does not appear) for my strength is made perfect in weakness. " "
the word trinity isn't mentioned in the bible either, its clearly implied though, just like that no.
"I'm sorry if I am an irritation to you. Please, instead of cutting at me, pray for me. It will be better for both of us."
You don't irriated me at all quaf. I also don't "cut" at you. I don't twist your words, I say exactly what you tell me. I'm not into taking people out of context, nor putting words in their mouths. Ask around
Most of my friends know me for that exactly. A teacher I had said that to me expressly also. We were discussing in class and she sais something in relation to me and I piped up, nooooo I didn't say that, I said this.
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