Shroud of Turin

[Meshavrischika]

So... since it didn't pop up until the 1300's... whatcha think of this "cloth that was the burial shroud of christ"?

Do you think it's real? Sham? Somewhere in between?

 

[simonthezealot]

So... since it didn't pop up until the 1300's... whatcha think of this "cloth that was the burial shroud of christ"?

Do you think it's real? Sham? Somewhere in between?

COMPLETE SHAM.

 

[Yarddog]

The fact that none of the early writers mentioned it tends to say that it wasn't of Jesus. The fact that scientist cannot figure out how it was created makes for a great mystery.

Yarddog

 

[Meshavrischika]

yeah, I think that's the fun part. I like anything that makes "learned men" scratch their heads and go "huh?" (bad me)

 

[PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter]

What's up ERM?

The discovery channel seems to think it's real so who am I to question!

While you're at it can you find out who shot JFK and whether or not OJ is guilty and if the Black Sox scandal really went down the way they said?

Go Cards!

 

[Meshavrischika]

right - heck, I'd like to know how the big bang occured too

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So... since it didn't pop up until the 1300's... whatcha think of this "cloth that was the burial shroud of christ"?

Do you think it's real? Sham? Somewhere in between?

It has been known in the Orthodox Church as "The Shroud of Edessa" since the 500's. It was found in a box burried inside a wall at Edessa.

Are you familiar with the icon of Christ called "The Pantocrator"? It was the first icon of Christ as a "grown man" and it's image (head and shoulders) were taken from the shroud. The earliest one (icon) that still survives today is from the 700's, however it is a copy of much older works that are no longer with.

Upon close examination there are more that 700 points of detail between this icon and the shroud, including the flowers above his head to the left and right of the halo.

Now I would ask, if this is a fake shroud from the 1300's or 1400's how is it that an icon dated to the 700's and is known to be a copy of a much older work has more than 700 points of commonality?

Forgive me...

 

[Meshavrischika]

then why would science and researchers not take this into consideration at all? (if it's so well established)

I'm supposing that they are looking for documented things outside just a church realm (hehehe, but that's just one of my guesses)

If it was known to the Orthodox church, why didn't they claim it and care for it instead of allowing the son of a Templar to sell it to the highest bidder as a show piece?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I also find it interesting to see that the shroud is displayed in the Orthodox icons of "Good Friday" being laid upon Christ in the same was as the shroud would have had to laid on Christ if it is real. The icons far predate the controversial topic.

Forgive me...

 

[Meshavrischika]

A shroud you mean

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

then why would science and researchers not take this into consideration at all? (if it's so well established)

I'm supposing that they are looking for documented things outside just a church realm (hehehe, but that's just one of my guesses)

If it was known to the Orthodox church, why didn't they claim it and care for it instead of allowing the son of a Templar to sell it to the highest bidder as a show piece?

Me thinks you don't know our history very well. We were sacked and pillaged. Everything was taken. We are still to this day, getting things back.

Forgive me...

 

[Meshavrischika]

I'm just giving you a hard time. (Because I know you'll argue with me)

I know less about the shroud than I do about physics (and that's very little) hehehe

I would however, prefer documentation and more indepth information than just short commentary if you're going to assert something as fact Orth

 

[Meshavrischika]

Okay, I looked up the Edessa thing, from what I understand it only mentioned the face and not the whole body... ???

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Okay, I looked up the Edessa thing, from what I understand it only mentioned the face and not the whole body... ???

Correct... The 700 points (of measurment) I mentioned was done by a scientist using lasers. I don't know how to ignore that.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I'm just giving you a hard time. (Because I know you'll argue with me)

I know less about the shroud than I do about physics (and that's very little) hehehe

I would however, prefer documentation and more indepth information than just short commentary if you're going to assert something as fact Orth

I used to post long detailed posts... only to find that people will NOT read them... keep it short and simple.

I hope I'm not arguing too much or "just for the sake of arguing".

Forgive me...

 

[Meshavrischika]

links would be better for me (that way I can bookmark and peruse in my own time)

yes, I am one of those ignore the long post offenders, but I tend to actually read linked articles because I can verify those and take my time over a couple days/weeks

 

[Meshavrischika]

I'd love to see information on the art specifically

 

[Kristos]

It would seem that the shroud is the same as King Abgar's icon, not made by hands.

 

[Meshavrischika]

but that doesn't even exist anymore, how can you possibly link the two?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

but that doesn't even exist anymore, how can you possibly link the two?

Only by written descriptions.

The trouble with attempting to give you links is... I did not learn these things from the Internet, but rather in class, so I don't have many things I can point you to.

Forgive me...