Show me - Patriotism

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is it unreasonable to say denial of self includes our patriotic expressions?

No, not at all. Rather it is clear and plain in Scripture, and opposed by men for various reasons opposed to God.

I can't keep entertaining your digressed thoughts. My point is on denial of self so either you reply to that or we can just call it a night.

Good observations. (Distracting, false digressed thoughts causing confusion, trying to overthrow the truth so people don't see it)

In the quote below,
nothing hidden here. Simply unashamed open obvious rebellion rejection of the plain meaning of the Bible.
Why ? < shrugs > Who knows? Yahweh knows. What to do? Nothing. (maybe pray)

I had no hidden agenda this thread and those others that want us to hate our country, show the folly of Bible alone or if you will Sola Scriptura. No one lets the Bible speaks for itself but how they want it to be. For instance all those who do not want to let others be patriotic and love their country will site time after time the deny yourself verse and hate your other and brother verses turning them to say something they never said. My unhidden agenda was to show how silly it was to say by some we had to hate our country by twisting verses.

 

[DamianWarS]

When you post Bible verses with "hate" in them, it behooves all of us to clarify the context of what is meant.

Clarity is a GOOD thing.

and I did when I spoke of denial of self that you refuse to comment on.

 

[brinny]

and I did when I spoke of denial of self that you refuse to comment on.

and I did when I spoke of denial of self that you refuse to comment on.

No.

You didn't.

Questions regarding clarity, are a GOOD thing, Damian.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not when they already were clarified many times.
Not for unknown why, obsessive repetitive assaults of questions that are already clear.

 

[Archivist]

It has always been more important to us to have the strongest military and we have put ourselves out there as the 'protector' of the world. We don't have to be.

Overall I liked your post, but this portion is incorrect. For much of its history the US relied on the oceans to protect ourselves. We had a tiny army and navy. We did not try to be the protector of the world, although we did take special interest in our own hemisphere. We finally started building up our navy in the 1880s after we almost went to war with Chile. At the time the Chilean navy probably would have sunk our fleet. By the time of the 1898 Spanish-American war we had built up our navy and were behind only Germany and the UK. Our army, however, was tiny and poorly equipped until the Seconf World War. In WWI our army actually had to use French tanks and French fighter planes because we didn’t have any of our own.

I would agree that since WWII ended we have insisted on having a large military and seen ourselves as protector of the world.

 

[Tutorman]

Is it unreasonable to say denial of self includes our patriotic expressions?

Yes it is, it is adding something not there

 

[Richard T]

2 Peter 2:10 (KJV) 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Despise is kataphroneō, or to think against. I had to repent on this myself. I think it is fine to favor certain policies and even dissent, but overall, no matter who is in leadership, we should be respectful and do our best to pray and WORK WITH government. This is exactly the opposite of many in media who for the most part, do really despise Trump and speak evil of him as often as possible. The scripture would apply to any country, and many would be far more challenging than the USA.

 

[DamianWarS]

Yes it is, it is adding something not there

how exactly do you suggest one denies self?

 

[miamited]

Overall I liked your post, but this portion is incorrect. For much of its history the US relied on the oceans to protect ourselves. We had a tiny army and navy. We did not try to be the protector of the world, although we did take special interest in our own hemisphere. We finally started building up our navy in the 1880s after we almost went to war with Chile. At the time the Chilean navy probably would have sunk our fleet. By the time of the 1898 Spanish-American war we had built up our navy and were behind only Germany and the UK. Our army, however, was tiny and poorly equipped until the Seconf World War. In WWI our army actually had to use French tanks and French fighter planes because we didn’t have any of our own.

I would agree that since WWII ended we have insisted on having a large military and seen ourselves as protector of the world.

Hi archivist,

Well, yes, we weren't born as a nation with quite the degree of 'we're the best' that we have accomplished today and I am generally speaking of how I have seen our nation during my adult life time. Under the leadership of previous Presidents, that understanding has been somewhat muted and it was just understood. Today, however, I see quite a bit of braggadocio of both the citizenry and the leadership. A braggadocio that under general social standards would be termed 'boorish'. Everyone dislikes the person at the party whose basic communication skill is to brag about themselves and their accomplishments. We've set that person up as the standard bearer of our nation. Yay us!

Personally, I dislike being represented as a part of such a people. Greedy beyond what we deserve. We're just a people of a nation upon the earth. We're really no different than any other people, individually, but our governmental system has some ideologies that, in some instances, better respect the rights and freedoms of the individual. But along with such an ideology also comes the freedom that allows a lot of us to take advantage of others.

Overall, however, the American form of governance is preferable to some others, but it is by no means the best form of governance. As I said in the other post, there are some 200+ nations on the face of the earth and many of them provide governance over their people in a fair and equitable manner. The United States is just another such nation, but its size and strength have catapulted it to this position of power, and power often corrupts.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[brinny]

2 Peter 2:10 (KJV) 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Despise is kataphroneō, or to think against. I had to repent on this myself. I think it is fine to favor certain policies and even dissent, but overall, no matter who is in leadership, we should be respectful and do our best to pray and WORK WITH government. This is exactly the opposite of many in media who for the most part, do really despise Trump and speak evil of him as often as possible. The scripture would apply to any country, and many would be far more challenging than the USA.

Amen.

"But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities." ~II Peter 2:10

 

[miamited]

I had no hidden agenda this thread and those others that want us to hate our country, show the folly of Bible alone or if you will Sola Scriptura. No one lets the Bible speaks for itself but how they want it to be. For instance all those who do not want to let others be patriotic and love their country will site time after time the deny yourself verse and hate your other and brother verses turning them to say something they never said. My unhidden agenda was to show how silly it was to say by some we had to hate our country by twisting verses.

Hi tutorman,

If you believe or have evidence that some people are encouraging an attitude of 'hate' because of what the Scriptures say, I'd be inclined to believe that someone isn't understanding the Scriptures. The only thing that the Scriptures encourage us to hate is sin. We should hate any act or attitude that encourages sin.

If we use the example of Jesus' exchange with the woman caught in sin, the Scriptures don't even teach us to 'hate' the person who commits sin. Generally hate has no place in a born again believer's life, but then we can't usually see from the outside whether or not someone has been so born. We must depend on their fruit and the fruit of hate is not a profitable fruit for showing that one has been born again.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

2 Peter 2:10 (KJV) 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Despise is kataphroneō, or to think against. I had to repent on this myself. I think it is fine to favor certain policies and even dissent, but overall, no matter who is in leadership, we should be respectful and do our best to pray and WORK WITH government. This is exactly the opposite of many in media who for the most part, do really despise Trump and speak evil of him as often as possible. The scripture would apply to any country, and many would be far more challenging than the USA.

Hi richard,

I don't suppose you've ever considered checking the words of the KJV here against other translations or commentaries, eh? Most of them show that this idea of 'who' they have no fear of speaking against isn't some earthly political leader. Most other translations also translate the word 'government' as 'authority'. There is a difference.

The question you might want to answer, if wisdom of the Scriptures is what you seek, is which translation more accurately reflects the will and purpose of God in having those words written? Did God mean to tell us that we shouldn't speak out about things concerning our national governments? Or, did God mean to tell us that we should not despise authority? For the one who despises authority, will also despise the authority of spiritual beings.

BGod bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[brinny]

Hi richard,

I don't suppose you've ever considered checking the words of the KJV here against other translations or commentaries, eh? Most of them show that this idea of 'who' they have no fear of speaking against isn't some earthly political leader. Most other translations also translate the word 'government' as 'authority'. There is a difference.

The question you might want to answer, if wisdom of the Scriptures is what you seek, is which translation more accurately reflects the will and purpose of God in having those words written? Did God mean to tell us that we shouldn't speak out about things concerning our national governments? Or, did God mean to tell us that we should not despise authority? For the one who despises authority, will also despise the authority of spiritual beings.

BGod bless,
In Christ, ted

Be careful with those many translations that are even "copyrighted", Ted.

The KJV is not "copyrighted".

There's a reason for that Ted.

 

[Tutorman]

how exactly do you suggest one denies self?

By the the words JOY. Jesus first, others second, yourself last. That does not mean to hate your country. National pride is something everyone should have

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

dude wut?

 

[miamited]

Be careful with those many translations that are even "copyrighted", Ted.

The KJV is not "copyrighted".

There's a reason for that Ted.

Hi brinny,

I always try to be careful with all translations of God's word. That's why I use many and when there are discrepancies I am able to further research the source of said discrepancy.

The word is kuriotes and it means dominion. It can be referring to God or the police and is rightly translated as 'authority' in most translations. Peter here is warning us to watch out for those who follow after the lusts of the flesh and those who despise authority. I do not despise authority, but I feel that I do have the freedom to speak out against an authority that is unjust. Just as your posts 2 years ago spent a lot of effort speaking against the 'authority' over us then. So, you obviously seem to be comfortable with speaking against an authority that is unjust. But, just as Daniel represented, even when confronted with an unjust authority, one must be respectful.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[DamianWarS]

By the the words JOY. Jesus first, others second, yourself last. That does not mean to hate your country. National pride is something everyone should have

But I don't see that in the text. Joy is your interpretation and by your own logic since it is not explicitly in the text it must be rejected. These are your rules not mine.

 

[miamited]

By the the words JOY. Jesus first, others second, yourself last. That does not mean to hate your country. National pride is something everyone should have

Hi tutorman,

You keep using that word 'hate'. Is hate what you're after or are you rather just after those who don't seem as gungho patriotic as you think we should be? And no, I don't see the description of 'JOY' as you have laid out as having anything to do with national pride. If your love is for your nation, go for it. You can build yourself a shrine of some kind, say a big pole in your front yard with a flag on top, and go out every day and sing the Star Spangled Banner and Hail to the Chief. Personally, I don't think God is going to see you as somehow the more faithful servant for that. But, if you do, then have at it.

I also don't see the 2 Peter 2:10 verse as being all about national pride either. I don't remember Jesus singing 'Hail to Thee Oh Israel'. I do however remember several times that he spoke against many of their practices. So, Jesus may not have been a big, "Oh you guys really need to love your nation" type either.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

Be careful with those many translations that are even "copyrighted", Ted.

The KJV is not "copyrighted".

There's a reason for that Ted.

Hi brinny,

Just a humorous piece for your perusal:

http://www.kjvonly.org/doug/kutilek_king_james_copy.htm

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[brinny]

Hi brinny,

Just a humorous piece for your perusal:

http://www.kjvonly.org/doug/kutilek_king_james_copy.htm

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Thanks Ted.

This is what is under the KJV in Gateway:

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

This is what's under the ESV on Gateway:

English Standard Version (ESV)

The Holy Bible, English Standard Version. ESV® Text Edition: 2016. Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers.