Should you buy a new electric car..

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or go with a gas powered car. What are the true costs and benefits of electric versus gas powered vehicles?

Well lets take a look starting with the price. You will find a new electric car are typically higher-priced than a comparable gas powered car. Right now they are more than $11,000 higher than what you’d pay for a new regular gas-powered car, and nearly $30,000 more if its a compact car. With the price for an electric vehicle over $50,000 on the average.
For example, the 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric starts at $34,000, while the gas-powered model costs just $21,300, so some 20-30 percent0 more. you will find basically the same thing with trucks.

Next how far can you go as the average gas powered cars get 300 to 400 miles per tank depending on the model. Here are some new car prices from the dealer with their miles per charge..

MODEL/BASE PRICE...................../MINIMUM RANGE/MAXIMUM RANGE

2021 BMW i3/$44,450................../153/153

2022 Tesla Model 3/$46,990........./272/353

2022 BMW i4/$55,400................./227/301

2022 Porsche Taycan/$86,700......./199/227

2022 Tesla Model S/$99,990........../396/405

Then you need to look at car insurance as with a higher sticker price on a electric car, you will pay more on insurance as the insurer will need to pay out more in an accident,
For maintenance/repairs the a electric car is going to be cheaper to maintain than the gas-powered car. With fewer moving components, there’s less to service. Oil changes and tune-ups also don’t happen with a electric cars. But the cost of replacing an electric car battery can be expensive, for example, $26,000 on a Tesla.

Then you the electric cars reliability which for most are not good.. Electric vehicles are less reliable because of newer technologies, Consumer Reports finds.
Next you have to look at charging the electric car, with a cost average of $0.25-$0.65 kWh and up to hour or more to get a full a electric car charge, and understand you may not be able to find a place to charge while traveling or have the charging station working especially in the cold. Why America doesn’t have enough EV charging stations Commentary: Tesla Owner Goes Viral After Car Fails to Charge During Frigid Temps - That Wasn't Even the Worst Part

Then one thing most dont quite know hope to gauge, with a electric cars being so new, is depreciation. The a electric car, is going to drop much faster in value, up to 40% lower than gas powered cars. But the most startling thing is that most people will not buy a used electric car and inherit the innumerable of issues and problems that come with used electronics.

 
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or go with a gas powered car. What are the true costs and benefits of electric versus gas powered vehicles?

Well lets take a look starting with the price. You will find a new electric car are typically higher-priced than a comparable gas powered car. Right now they are more than $11,000 higher than what you’d pay for a new regular gas-powered car, and nearly $30,000 more if its a compact car. With the price for an electric vehicle over $50,000 on the average.
For example, the 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric starts at $34,000, while the gas-powered model costs just $21,300, so some 20-30 percent0 more. you will find basically the same thing with trucks.

Next how far can you go as the average gas powered cars get 300 to 400 miles per tank depending on the model. Here are some new car prices from the dealer with their miles per charge..

MODEL/BASE PRICE...................../MINIMUM RANGE/MAXIMUM RANGE

2021 BMW i3/$44,450................../153/153

2022 Tesla Model 3/$46,990........./272/353

2022 BMW i4/$55,400................./227/301

2022 Porsche Taycan/$86,700......./199/227

2022 Tesla Model S/$99,990........../396/405

Then you need to look at car insurance as with a higher sticker price on a electric car, you will pay more on insurance as the insurer will need to pay out more in an accident,
For maintenance/repairs the a electric car is going to be cheaper to maintain than the gas-powered car. With fewer moving components, there’s less to service. Oil changes and tune-ups also don’t happen with a electric cars. But the cost of replacing an electric car battery can be expensive, for example, $26,000 on a Tesla.

Then you the electric cars reliability which for most are not good.. Electric vehicles are less reliable because of newer technologies, Consumer Reports finds.
Next you have to look at charging the electric car, with a cost average of $0.25-$0.65 kWh and up to hour or more to get a full a electric car charge, and understand you may not be able to find a place to charge while traveling or have the charging station working especially in the cold. Why America doesn’t have enough EV charging stations Commentary: Tesla Owner Goes Viral After Car Fails to Charge During Frigid Temps - That Wasn't Even the Worst Part

Then one thing most dont quite know hope to gauge, with a electric cars being so new, is depreciation. The a electric car, is going to drop much faster in value, up to 40% lower than gas powered cars. But the most startling thing is that most people will not buy a used electric car and inherit the innumerable of issues and problems that come with used electronics.

If you look at actual resale values of Tesla cars, you will find that they hold up well. I'm older so an EV makes little sense. If I was buying a new car now, I'd go for electric in a heartbeat. There is very little to go wrong, especially with Tesla. A lot of problems are due to unsorted software issues. This affects VW and BMW. Tesla started from scratch and has a continual improvement policy.

Battery issues are greatly overstated. New technology and management systems have extended battery life dramatically. Also, the battery has plenty of value even when it no longer suits motoring. Check out used battery packs on Ebay or whatever. You'll be surprised. People are repurposing them for use with solar power, where recharge rates are not as critical.
 
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reddogs

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If you look at actual resale values of Tesla cars, you will find that they hold up well. I'm older so an EV makes little sense. If I was buying a new car now, I'd go for electric in a heartbeat. There is very little to go wrong, especially with Tesla. A lot of problems are due to unsorted software issues. This affects VW and BMW. Tesla started from scratch and has a continual improvement policy.

Battery issues are greatly overstated. New technology and management systems have extended battery life dramatically. Also, the battery has plenty of value even when it no longer suits motoring. Check out used battery packs on Ebay or whatever. You'll be surprised. People are repurposing them for use with solar power, where recharge rates are not as critical.
I would buy a Tesla understanding that it was just on the basis of ego, as I could never justify it on cost or practicality or any idea of 'saving the environment' as they are saying 'its the cows now'... Cow burps are a major contributor to climate change — can scientists change that?

But just as a example, take a look at buying a Ford electric truck, $57,869 for the Ford F150 Lightning Pro or 65,369 for the Ford F150 Lightning XLT, few will pay for a truck that runs down quickly when carrying a load or trying to keep warn in the cold, and then you cant resale at the end of your 60 month payments... (to say nothing of the Ford F150 Lightning Lariat $76,369 or Ford F150 Lightning Premium $98,369...)

the https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/pricing-and-incentives/
 
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I would buy a Tesla understanding that it was just on the basis of ego, as I could never justify it on cost or practicality or any idea of 'saving the environment' as they are saying 'its the cows now'... Cow burps are a major contributor to climate change — can scientists change that?

But just as a example, take a look at buying a Ford electric truck, $57,869 for the Ford F150 Lightning Pro or 65,369 for the Ford F150 Lightning XLT, few will pay for a truck that runs down quickly when carrying a load or trying to keep warn in the cold, and then you cant resale at the end of your 60 month payments... (to say nothing of the Ford F150 Lightning Lariat $76,369 or Ford F150 Lightning Premium $98,369...)

the https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/pricing-and-incentives/
I ride a bike. I avoid roads where I can. The stink of diesel fumes is enough to make me gag at times. I don't like to think what exhaust fumes do to me. I'll be happy when most vehicles are electric.

As it happens, Australian scientists think they have solved the issue of animal methane emissions. It's seaweed based.
 
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reddogs

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This is relevant...
"Most Americans still don't want an electric car — and many EV buyers end up going back to gas

Most Americans don't intend to buy an electric car in the near future, according to a new study.
People who do spring for an EV often buy a gas car as their next purchase, per another study.

In a recent poll conducted by Yahoo Finance and Ipsos, 57% of respondents said they were not likely to choose an EV when they buy their next car. (For the purposes of the study, EVs included fully electric cars and plug-in hybrids, which have a larger battery and more electric range than traditional hybrids.)

Of that majority, 36% said they were "not at all likely" to go electric, while 21% said they were "not too likely." Thirty-one percent of those surveyed said they were likely to buy an EV.

The biggest factors turning potential buyers off from EVs are the same worries that consistently pop up in these kinds of surveys: High vehicle cost, limited driving range, and insufficient charging infrastructure. The study also highlights a striking political divide among the EV-curious; 41% of Democrats said they'd buy an EV, compared to only 17% of Republicans."

 
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reddogs

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I ride a bike. I avoid roads where I can. The stink of diesel fumes is enough to make me gag at times. I don't like to think what exhaust fumes do to me. I'll be happy when most vehicles are electric.

As it happens, Australian scientists think they have solved the issue of animal methane emissions. It's seaweed based.
Well, the 'cons' of ownership for an electric car are many, someone in our family bought a very expensive electric vehicle with all the bells and whittles, and when it came time to charge, he has to plug into a contraption hanging out of his electric panel and wait "8 hours". So no chance to go if a emergency, or late night outing to the store, or quicky midnight trip for some doughnuts, nada for 8 hours or you might not be able to get there to say nothing of getting back. And to get the Tax Credit is just a nightmare to figure it out, and it is becoming restrictive to the point most will not get anything.... Here is a breakdown:
"EV Tax Credit
That tax credit has evolved over the years. Today, if you buy a new plug-in EV or fuel cell vehicle (FCV) in 2023 or later, you may qualify for a clean vehicle tax credit of up to $7,500. Details for the clean vehicle tax credit can be found in section 30D of the Tax Code.

Generally, to qualify, you must buy a qualifying EV for your own use primarily in the U.S. Your income level also comes into play, since your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed $300,000 for married couples filing jointly ($225,000 for heads of household and $150,000 for all other filers). You can use your modified AGI from the year you take delivery or the year before, whichever is less.


The credit is nonrefundable. A nonrefundable credit reduces your tax liability to zero, but not below zero—you can't get back more than you owe in taxes. Additionally, you can't apply any excess credit to future tax years.

Most importantly, the amount of the credit changes depending on when you place the vehicle in service.

Jan. 1 To April 17, 2023​

For qualifying vehicles purchased between Jan. 1 and April 17, 2023, the credit can be up to $2,500 (base amount) plus $417 for a vehicle with at least 7-kilowatt hours of battery capacity and $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity beyond 5-kilowatt hours—up to $7,500 of total credit.


Typically, the minimum credit will be $3,751—that’s $2,500 base amount + (3 x $417 credit amount for a vehicle with the minimum 7-kilowatt hours of battery capacity).

April 18, 2023, And After​

Qualifying vehicles purchased after April 18, 2023, must meet new critical mineral and battery component requirements. The credit will be up to $3,750 if the vehicle only meets the critical minerals requirement and $3,750 if the vehicle only meets the battery components requirement. If the EV meets both criteria, the credit is up to $7,500. A vehicle that doesn't meet either requirement will not be eligible for any credit.

As part of the administration's efforts to keep production close to home, to be eligible for the battery portion of the credit, a certain percentage of the vehicle's battery must be assembled or manufactured within North America. Those percentages change every year. Here’s the list by year:

  • 2023: 50%
  • 2024: 60%
  • 2025: 60%
  • 2026: 70%
  • 2027: 80%
  • 2028: 90%
  • 2029-2032: 100%
The same is true of the critical minerals requirement. Here’s the list by year:

  • 2023: 40%
  • 2024: 50%
  • 2025: 60%
  • 2026: 70%
  • 2027-2032: 80%

2022 Or Before​

To claim the credit for new EVs purchased in 2022 or before, you have to look at battery capacity. Generally, you may be eligible for a clean vehicle tax credit up to $7,500, which equals $2,917 for a vehicle with a battery capacity of at least 5-kilowatt hours plus $417 for each kilowatt hour of capacity over 5 kilowatt hours. Additional restrictions and criteria apply—you can find those here.
 
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Well, the 'cons' of ownership for an electric car are many, someone in our family bought a very expensive electric vehicle with all the bells and whittles, and when it came time to charge, he has to plug into a contraption hanging out of his electric panel and wait "8 hours". So no chance to go if a emergency, or late night outing to the store, or quicky midnight trip for some doughnuts, nada for 8 hours or you might not be able to get there to say nothing of getting back. And to get the Tax Credit is just a nightmare to figure it out, and it is becoming restrictive to the point most will not get anything.... Here is a breakdown:
"EV Tax Credit
That tax credit has evolved over the years. Today, if you buy a new plug-in EV or fuel cell vehicle (FCV) in 2023 or later, you may qualify for a clean vehicle tax credit of up to $7,500. Details for the clean vehicle tax credit can be found in section 30D of the Tax Code.

Generally, to qualify, you must buy a qualifying EV for your own use primarily in the U.S. Your income level also comes into play, since your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed $300,000 for married couples filing jointly ($225,000 for heads of household and $150,000 for all other filers). You can use your modified AGI from the year you take delivery or the year before, whichever is less.


The credit is nonrefundable. A nonrefundable credit reduces your tax liability to zero, but not below zero—you can't get back more than you owe in taxes. Additionally, you can't apply any excess credit to future tax years.

Most importantly, the amount of the credit changes depending on when you place the vehicle in service.

Jan. 1 To April 17, 2023​

For qualifying vehicles purchased between Jan. 1 and April 17, 2023, the credit can be up to $2,500 (base amount) plus $417 for a vehicle with at least 7-kilowatt hours of battery capacity and $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity beyond 5-kilowatt hours—up to $7,500 of total credit.


Typically, the minimum credit will be $3,751—that’s $2,500 base amount + (3 x $417 credit amount for a vehicle with the minimum 7-kilowatt hours of battery capacity).

April 18, 2023, And After​

Qualifying vehicles purchased after April 18, 2023, must meet new critical mineral and battery component requirements. The credit will be up to $3,750 if the vehicle only meets the critical minerals requirement and $3,750 if the vehicle only meets the battery components requirement. If the EV meets both criteria, the credit is up to $7,500. A vehicle that doesn't meet either requirement will not be eligible for any credit.

As part of the administration's efforts to keep production close to home, to be eligible for the battery portion of the credit, a certain percentage of the vehicle's battery must be assembled or manufactured within North America. Those percentages change every year. Here’s the list by year:

  • 2023: 50%
  • 2024: 60%
  • 2025: 60%
  • 2026: 70%
  • 2027: 80%
  • 2028: 90%
  • 2029-2032: 100%
The same is true of the critical minerals requirement. Here’s the list by year:

  • 2023: 40%
  • 2024: 50%
  • 2025: 60%
  • 2026: 70%
  • 2027-2032: 80%

2022 Or Before​

To claim the credit for new EVs purchased in 2022 or before, you have to look at battery capacity. Generally, you may be eligible for a clean vehicle tax credit up to $7,500, which equals $2,917 for a vehicle with a battery capacity of at least 5-kilowatt hours plus $417 for each kilowatt hour of capacity over 5 kilowatt hours. Additional restrictions and criteria apply—you can find those here.
America is not the only country on earth. I know that is almost incomprehensible to the average American. None of what you say applies to the rest of the world. America is not even the biggest car market. That is China. Even Americans drive a relatively small distance each day. You come home from work, plug the car in and do whatever you normally do. Most people sleep overnight. That's when you charge the vehicle. No more visits to the service station!

If you have a range of 400 km, and drive 50 km a day, you have no range worries whatever. The charging network away from home is massive and growing every day. It's not so easy for apartment dwellers, so maybe an EV is not practical as yet for them.

If you have your vehicle plugged in and charging then have to go out, you unplug it, do what you need to do and plug it back in when you get home. It really is not that hard.
 
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reddogs

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America is not the only country on earth. I know that is almost incomprehensible to the average American. None of what you say applies to the rest of the world. America is not even the biggest car market. That is China. Even Americans drive a relatively small distance each day. You come home from work, plug the car in and do whatever you normally do. Most people sleep overnight. That's when you charge the vehicle. No more visits to the service station!

If you have a range of 400 km, and drive 50 km a day, you have no range worries whatever. The charging network away from home is massive and growing every day. It's not so easy for apartment dwellers, so maybe an EV is not practical as yet for them.

If you have your vehicle plugged in and charging then have to go out, you unplug it, do what you need to do and plug it back in when you get home. It really is not that hard.
I think it is the leader of the free world and sets the path on electric cars, whether it sells the most matters not, as what it does, others follow.
 
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reddogs

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Well, this is interesting, the electric cars dont seem to work as well during the cold...
Breaking News from CBS2 - CBS Chicago
'Tesla owners run into trouble amid bitter cold
Some Tesla drivers learned the hard way amid this frigid snap about how cold weather affects battery life.

At a charging station at The Evergreen Marketplace, at 9200 S. Western Ave. in Evergreen Park, Teslas were lined up early Monday morning. Some of the Teslas' batteries died – leaving the cars sitting askew and immobile in the parking lot.

Driver said some of the charging stations weren't working – and those that were working took a lot longer than usual to charge.

"I've been here for over five hours at this point, and I still have not gotten to charge my car," said Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne. "A charge that should take 45 minutes is taking two hours."

Welbourne said he saw at least 10 cars towed.'

And meanwhile in Chicago...
"OAK BROOK, Ill. - Electric vehicles may be the way of the future, but many EV owners are having trouble dealing with Chicago’s bitterly cold temperatures.

Public charging stations have turned into car graveyards over the past couple of days.
"Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent," said Tyler Beard, who has been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon. "And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday."

Beard was among the dozens of Tesla owners trying desperately to power up their cars at the Tesla supercharging station in Oak Brook. It was a scene mirrored with long lines and abandoned cars at scores of other charging stations around the Chicago area.
"This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously," said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.

Mizelle was forced to abandon her car and get a ride from a friend when it wouldn’t charge.

Another man summed up the situation succinctly: "We got a bunch of dead robots out here.

But it was no laughing matter to people like Kevin Sumrak, who landed at O’Hare on Sunday night to find his Tesla dead.

Sumlak was forced to hire a flatbed tow truck to try to find a working charging station."
 
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I think it is the leader of the free world and sets the path on electric cars, whether it sells the most matters not, as what it does, others follow.
"Leader of the free world"? Well not in the realm of EV's. Europe is much more accepting. Europe has driven (pardon the pun) people towards EV's by introducing fuel efficiency and pollution standards that make ICE less attractive. Some cities such as London allow EV's in for free but charge a fee for ICE. London has EV buses. Half of London's taxis are fully electric.

America is leader in oversized trucks, mass shootings, drug addiction, illegal immigrants, and a wide range of social problems. It's the only wealthy nation without affordable health care. It's a leader in woke progressiveness and is turning away from God. Enjoy world leadership while you can. It's not looking all that good now.

I have visited America twice, first in 1994 for work, then in 2016 for a holiday. It was great. Could I live there? I'm not politically correct enough. I say terrible things like "male", "female" and "Happy Christmas". I won't use pronouns apart from he, she and it. I just would not fit in.
 
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"Leader of the free world"? Well not in the realm of EV's. Europe is much more accepting. Europe has driven (pardon the pun) people towards EV's by introducing fuel efficiency and pollution standards that make ICE less attractive. Some cities such as London allow EV's in for free but charge a fee for ICE. London has EV buses. Half of London's taxis are fully electric.

America is leader in oversized trucks, mass shootings, drug addiction, illegal immigrants, and a wide range of social problems. It's the only wealthy nation without affordable health care. It's a leader in woke progressiveness and is turning away from God. Enjoy world leadership while you can. It's not looking all that good now.

I have visited America twice, first in 1994 for work, then in 2016 for a holiday. It was great. Could I live there? I'm not politically correct enough. I say terrible things like "male", "female" and "Happy Christmas". I won't use pronouns apart from he, she and it. I just would not fit in.
Well, I went to Europe, and the people were hungering not for food, but for American dollars that drives (pun intended) the world economy. They drove tiny cars or rode in buses (where my pocket almost got picked, several times!), except for the elite who drove around in EV's and Mercedes, and Porsche's, with not a real thought of fuel efficiency and pollution standards. Only the appearance of it as they cruise through the EU...Give me the freedom and liberty of choosing my cake rather than it be forced upon me.
 
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Tesla's model Y is the best selling car in Europe 2023. Obviously some people have money. Freedom and liberty in America? Don't make me laugh. You are not even allowed to say "Happy Christmas" for fear of offending someone.
 
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Tesla's model Y is the best selling car in Europe 2023. Obviously some people have money. Freedom and liberty in America? Don't make me laugh. You are not even allowed to say "Happy Christmas" for fear of offending someone.
All depends if they are carrying....But anyway the latest is that Americans are turning away from EVs...
'New poll reveals staggering number of Americans unlikely to buy electric cars
A recent poll by Rasmussen Reports revealed that 65 percent of American adults are unlikely to consider purchasing an electric vehicle (EV) for their next car.

This sentiment is particularly strong among working and lower-middle class individuals, with over 70 percent in the $30,000 to $50,000 income bracket expressing disinterest in buying an EV.

The survey also highlighted that EVs are more appealing to wealthier individuals, as 52 percent of those earning at least $200,000 are likely to consider purchasing an EV.


Additionally, the poll’s findings coincide with reports of EVs being stranded due to the winter freeze, raising concerns about their practicality in cold weather.'MSN.
 
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All depends if they are carrying....But anyway the latest is that Americans are turning away from EVs...
'New poll reveals staggering number of Americans unlikely to buy electric cars
A recent poll by Rasmussen Reports revealed that 65 percent of American adults are unlikely to consider purchasing an electric vehicle (EV) for their next car.

This sentiment is particularly strong among working and lower-middle class individuals, with over 70 percent in the $30,000 to $50,000 income bracket expressing disinterest in buying an EV.

The survey also highlighted that EVs are more appealing to wealthier individuals, as 52 percent of those earning at least $200,000 are likely to consider purchasing an EV.


Additionally, the poll’s findings coincide with reports of EVs being stranded due to the winter freeze, raising concerns about their practicality in cold weather.'MSN.
America is not the world. America has cheap petrol. Europe costs a fortune as fuels are heavily taxed. If an EV is not suitable, don't buy one. That's easy. I do think that there is a great deal of misinformation promoted by legacy car makers. They are panicking, not because of what goes on in America, but because they are losing market share where it matters - China. I would buy an EV in a heartbeat. I ride a bike and the stink of diesel is disgusting and air pollution is a problem too. I'm 72, so it's not a cost effective option for me.
 
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America is not the world. America has cheap petrol. Europe costs a fortune as fuels are heavily taxed. If an EV is not suitable, don't buy one. That's easy. I do think that there is a great deal of misinformation promoted by legacy car makers. They are panicking, not because of what goes on in America, but because they are losing market share where it matters - China. I would buy an EV in a heartbeat. I ride a bike and the stink of diesel is disgusting and air pollution is a problem too. I'm 72, so it's not a cost effective option for me.
Well the climate change fanatics wanted to raise the price to above that in Europe, would that solve anything. Of course not. You cannot buy any electronics that were manufactured in China with any sense of reliability, to say nothing of EV and its issues already. Even Ford is backing away...
 
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Here in Michigan, winter, electric cars on the side of the road often.
Well, thats not even the worse part as at least when it gets warm, it can get recharged. But once the battery goes out, then the real nightmare begins..'
  • EV battery replacement costs can be significant, with prices for GM EVs' battery replacement ranging from $4,000 to $20,000, depending on the model.
  • Most EV batteries are designed to last at least 10 years, but the need for replacement after the warranty expires is rare, as they still retain 70% charging capacity.
  • While manufacturers typically cover the cost of battery replacement under warranty, location and time for replacement can be challenging, as EV batteries are large and often require weeks to order and install.
    Electric vehicles (EVs) usually cost more than their gas-powered counterparts, and their sometimes limited range, plus the logistics of recharging, can make them less convenient. These are some of the things consumers consider before purchasing an EV, but an often overlooked aspect is the cost of replacing an EV battery. Just like with phones and laptops, electric vehicle batteries have a limited lifespan, and today we're going to be discussing some GM EVs battery replacement costs. Be it a Cadillac or a Chevrolet, it can cost more than a pretty penny...'

 
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reddogs

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Well, this is telling...
"In a recent video on the YouTube channel “The Electric Viking” by Sam Evans, alarming news about the Chinese electric vehicle market has emerged. The video shared that over the past four months, four different Chinese EV manufacturers and one major automotive group with hundreds of dealerships in China have declared bankruptcy, raising concerns about the overall stability of the EV market in China, which is currently home to a staggering 91 EV makers."
 
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MForbes

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The U.S. needs to build up the infrastructure in order to support all-electric transportation.....and I mean nationwide, not just in the more populated areas.

Europe has it going on as far as that type of infrastructure. A great majority of their public transportation is electric, and has been for sometime now. I lived in Europe for six years so I know.
 
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