Should women teach?

[ROGER459]

I NOTICED THAT no one Responded to the Scripture verses I posted on Page #3 of this Thread? ? ?

When confronted with the OPTIONS, women are NOT ALOUD TO TEACH, OR BE PASTORS = BY THE WORD OF GOD!

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is not in the Word of God! NEITHER ARE POLLS....!

James 1:22 You be DOERS of the Word, and not hearers ONLY, bringing a Delusion UPON YOURSELVES!

Thanks, Roger459

 

[whateveristrue]

I just wanted to point something out...just because women aren't to be in authority in the church DOES NOT mean God does not use them.

Women can do powerful and amazing things for God. He uses them in great ways. A woman's role is not to be the authority over her husband or in the church. She should accept that and seek to serve God in another way.

I agree. Women can totally be used by GOD in the Church. If her gift is teaching, then that's what she should do... but leadership is an entirely different issue. I don't agree with a woman being the lead pastor of a church.

 

[Judy02]

Never once does Paul mention a woman prophecying, teaching, preaching et al in a congregational setting. We see women witnessing to men in what is essentially a field, we see them in multiple settings but never doing the speaking. We have letters from Peter, Paul, and so on but not one from a woman. Again the church is not in public. The insturctions are clear. Again scripture is not a buffet from which we can pick and chose. We have direct commands on behaviour and not a single scripture to refute them. Do we have to like them? No! God states plainly that His thoughts are not out thoughts and our ways our not His ways. The only reason this issue ever comes up is strictly a Western mentality and nothing more. How would someone who had never been exposed to Christians and read the Bible see these verses?

To say women can't teach, when u think about it long and hard enough, can only be because of 2 reasons. They are either morally, or intellectually inferior to men, and when u start along that line of thought, ur starting down a very slippery slope indeed.

Joel 2: 28 'And afterwards, I will pour out my spirit on all people. (Emphasis, mine) Yous sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit on those days.'
I think that is happening now. (Aren't the last days generally agreed to be after Jesus death till his second coming, i.e the Holy Spirit being present amongst all who believe).
'Paul's most all encompassing statement of egalitarianism is in his letter to the Galations, a predominantly Jewish church, where he says that once a person belongs to Jesus Christ there is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female (Galations 3:28). Admittedly, the context is salvation, but Paul is saying that all the old man - made distinctions created by race, status and gender have been broken down by the cross and resurrection. Hierarchy has been dismantled, exclusion is not an option. A new order has come into being, and the proof of it is Pentecost. The Holy Spirit was not and is not discriminatory. So Jewish men can stop thanking God they're not a woman.' Remember, the Jews at the time were more elitist, where they believed to be born among the royal blood line of David...u had to be born within a certain family to be seen as saved by certain Jews/i.e. born a Jew.
When Paul talks about gifts and ministires of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12, he does not say evangelism is for men, embroidery is for women; teaching is for men, typing is for women; prophecy is for men, praying at home is for women; leading is for men, knitting is for women. He says "All these [gifts] are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines." (v11). He doesn't say, 'but mind make sure women are never allowed to speak or teach anyone, this is something divinely ordained for men only, because women are scum, and can never impart wisdom on anybody.'

Doesn't sound like a perfectly reasonable desire that all humans should be eqal in value and role is 'western' thought to me. In fact, it seems very much Biblical. The only reason Christians were accepted into the Church then was because they had been filled with the Holy Spirit, as were women.

 

[Judy02]

The authors know history and culture, but ignore some passages and misleadingly emphasize others. For instance, they omit the portion about women asking their husbands. Further, they're wrong that their isn't a creation order. We rule over animals Ge 1:26, we are lower than angels Ps 8:5. Men rule the house, God rules the Church.

"But if any man does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. " 1 Timothy 5:8
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. " 1 Cor 11:3
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, " Ephesians 5:25
"Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them. " Col 3:19

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:2Bnz_y4nHuoJ:www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/041505%2520AUTHENTEIN%2520FULL%2520TEXT.doc+Authentein&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1AUTHENTEIN

If you're interested how I've come to understand the husband being described as a 'head' I've posted huge amounts of information on another thread. I'm not meant to repeat myself.

 

[Smileyill]

To say women can't teach, when u think about it long and hard enough, can only be because of 2 reasons. They are either morally, or intellectually inferior to men, and when u start along that line of thought, ur starting down a very slippery slope indeed.

Joel 2: 28 'And afterwards, I will pour out my spirit on all people. (Emphasis, mine) Yous sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit on those days.'
I think that is happening now. (Aren't the last days generally agreed to be after Jesus death till his second coming, i.e the Holy Spirit being present amongst all who believe).
'Paul's most all encompassing statement of egalitarianism is in his letter to the Galations, a predominantly Jewish church, where he says that once a person belongs to Jesus Christ there is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female (Galations 3:28). Admittedly, the context is salvation, but Paul is saying that all the old man - made distinctions created by race, status and gender have been broken down by the cross and resurrection. Hierarchy has been dismantled, exclusion is not an option. A new order has come into being, and the proof of it is Pentecost. The Holy Spirit was not and is not discriminatory. So Jewish men can stop thanking God they're not a woman.' Remember, the Jews at the time were more elitist, where they believed to be born among the royal blood line of David...u had to be born within a certain family to be seen as saved by certain Jews/i.e. born a Jew.
When Paul talks about gifts and ministires of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12, he does not say evangelism is for men, embroidery is for women; teaching is for men, typing is for women; prophecy is for men, praying at home is for women; leading is for men, knitting is for women. He says "All these [gifts] are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines." (v11). He doesn't say, 'but mind make sure women are never allowed to speak or terach anyone, this is something divinely ordained for men only, because women are scum, and can never impart wisdom on anybody.'

Doesn't sound like a perfectly reasonable desire that all humans should be eqal in value and role is 'western' thought to me. In fact, it seems very much Biblical. The only reason Christians were accepted into the Church then as because they had been filled with the Holy Spirit, as were women.

Are you sure there are only 2 reasons? Several more come to mind. But I digress.

 

[Judy02]

Are you sure there are only 2 reasons? Several more come to mind. But I digress.

Yes I can't think realistically why there would be any other reason. All believers are filled with the Holy Spirit; itr isn't an innate 'special' gift that comes to men. Why God would pick and choose based on physical qualities rather than their state of heart is absurd. It's not what Christianity was about as Paul outlined. I've also studied this 'head of the wife' issue. The greek word used for head in that letter does not mean 'chief' or 'boss'. I've discussed it in another thread, but I doubt you're that interested.

 

[Smileyill]

Yes I can't think realistically why there would be any other reason. All believers are filled with the Holy Spirit; itr isn't an innate 'special' gift that comes to men. Why God would pick and choose based on physical qualities rather than their state of heart is absurd. It's not what Christianity was about as Paul outlined. I've also studied this 'head of the wife' issue. The greek word used for head in that letter does not mean 'chief' or 'boss'. I've discussed it in another thread, but I doubt you're that interested.

Hey, if I wasn't interested would I respond as much as I have thus far? (btw did you peruse the article I linked?)

Problem is I agree with almost everything you just wrote. A true leader is a servant, not a boss. And, of course, we're all filled with the HS, the ultimate teacher.

Realistically, there are other reasons. I just don't think you want to read them.

 

[Judy02]

Hey, if I wasn't interested would I respond as much as I have thus far? (btw did you peruse the article I linked?)

Problem is I agree with almost everything you just wrote. A true leader is a servant, not a boss. And, of course, we're all filled with the HS, the ultimate teacher.

Realistically, there are other reasons. I just don't think you want to read them.

I had a brief look, but it's 11:30pm here, and I have to sleep soon coz I'm up early tomorrow, so I'll respond to it later.

Let's hear the other reasons

 

[Smileyill]

I had a brief look, but it's 11:30pm here, and I have to sleep soon coz I'm up early tomorrow, so I'll respond to it later.

Let's hear the other reasons

I hear nothing.

Sleep on it. I'm sure you'll think of them.

 

[Judy02]

I hear nothing.

Sleep on it. I'm sure you'll think of them.

No I'd like to hear what reasons u think God has given that he would discriminate women, and not equip women with teaching, on the sole basis that they're 'just a woman.' Even if u believe husbands have authority over wives (and that is solely in a marital context), which I have found to be untrue, meaning that they can't teach and guide their leaders is nonsense. Everyone has things to learnf rom others. None of us is above another person, that is pride, not the teachings of Christ.

I have been studying this issue, and praying on it for a good few years now. These sexist practices in the Church really don't make sense, considering what Christianity is. And if women weren't meant to teach, why do they have that gift. As man's helper, I don't think we're meant to be quiet docile creatures.

 

[Smileyill]

No I'd like to think what reasons u think God has given that he would discriminate women, and not equip women with teaching, on the sole basis that they're 'just a woman.'

I have been studying this issue, and praying on it for a few years now. These sexist practices in the Church really don't make sense, considering what Christianity is.

You are tired, go to sleep. Although I'll give a hint, the 2 reasons you listed aren't in the Bible.

 

[Judy02]

You are tired, go to sleep. Although I'll give a hint, the 2 reasons you listed aren't in the Bible.

I'm not tired. If anything this is waking me up. The two reasons aren't explicitly given I know that...they don't have to be, because the Bible didn't debate the issue, it prob lived in the hope Paul's instructions weren't blown out of proportion, and used to serve a sick, controlling political purpose to serve man's own pride, at the time. but there is no other logical reason why. So lets hear your interpretation

 

[Smileyill]

I'm not tired. If anything this is waking me up. The two reasons aren't explicitly given I know that...they don't have to be, because the Bible didn't debate the issue, it prob lived in the hope Paul's instructions weren't blown out of proportion, and used to serve a sick, controlling political purpose to serve man's own pride, at the time. but there is no other logical reason why. So lets hear your interpretation

I still think you're tired, but in the interest of peace, I'll explain.

Hopefully we agree men and women are different.

Paul told women what to do, teach women and children, for one. Some things only a woman can teach a child well. Certainly women understand other women best. Teaching men instead takes time away from what they're supposed to do. If they're called to pray and prophesy, expounding to other believers, regardless of gender, takes away from that ministry. The converse of all this holds for men.

We only have a short time on this earth, why not spend it doing what the Bible tells us to do?

 

[bod44]

I still think you're tired, but in the interest of peace, I'll explain.

Hopefully we agree men and women are different.

Paul told women what to do, teach women and children, for one. Some things only a woman can teach a child well. Certainly women understand other women best. Teaching men instead takes time away from what they're supposed to do. If they're called to pray and prophesy, expounding to other believers, regardless of gender, takes away from that ministry. The converse of all this holds for men.

We only have a short time on this earth, why not spend it doing what the Bible tells us to do?

I agree, women should focus on women, because men can't give specialized advice to women, certainly men will never understand women! lol And it isn't right for a male pastor to have one on one with a woman anyways, thats asking for trouble. If a woman is gloriously following God's will and she feels called to preach and she's following all the standards of the Bible, I dunno what to say! But, I think that men should be in leadership, women in more specialized roles, lets face it, usually women are better with kids and women, and nowadays its dangerous for men to get really involved with young kids anyways. I'm from a family of 8 with the youngest still not even two, and I love kids. I like working with kids, but i have to be really really careful.

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

It just hit me.

Should woman be teaching is the question right?Some say yes and some say no I am going to list the points why I say yes.

1) God used a woman to carry the word for nine months,The word being Jesus and to give birth to him(naturally b/c he was already there spiritually)

2) There were two woman who saw and found out that Jesus was not dead but he was alive they knew even before the male disciples.

3) Remember nothing is imspossilbe God could have made it where the guys give birth and all, but he didn't he gave it to the girls, God has a reason for everything

4) God is no respect of a person, I feel it should have anything to do with trying to take over and all of that if your heart is right. I feel long as the word is being forth in spirit and in truth than it's great. God has filled women and ordained woman just as he has some man.



I can't remember all of what I was going to write but I did remember that part from the previous thread about this I think once I see that post the one I have been looking for I am going to save it and maybe even put it in my guestbook so I can copy and paste it each time a person starts this thread.



I believe in try the spirit by the spirit and see if it be of God, God never saw try the man by his spirit and see if it be of God he say by the spirit.in this part if never stated that we should be trying the spirit of a man why? becuase man andwoman.

 

[SoulFly51]

Why don't you guys/girls take scissors to the Scriptures you don't believe apply anymore?

If you think a verse doesn't apply today, why not just cut it or tear it out of your Bible? Isn't it a bother having them there?

They are meaningless afterall - just cut them out.

 

[86k10]

No, it's not OK for women to teach as authority over men in the church.

But of course they can teach children and other women. They can also study with people about becoming Christians and they can participate in bible study/discussions as long as a Christian man is the teacher/authority figure.

You have it right, Everything God does is by spiritual authority. And you have to remember who failed the very first test of leadership, it was Eve. So God gave man authority over her, so what it simply boils down to is God is our spiritual authority. Then the spiritual authority in the home is the man, and the same goes for the Church. It's fine for women to teach Sunday school class and such but never to be the pastor of a church.

 

[wmc1982]

Yes, women are great teachers. I just don't think they should be a main leader in the church. Just like how the man in a family should be the leader.

 

[thenewageriseth]

I NOTICED THAT no one Responded to the Scripture verses I posted on Page #3 of this Thread? ? ?

When confronted with the OPTIONS, women are NOT ALOUD TO TEACH, OR BE PASTORS = BY THE WORD OF GOD!

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is not in the Word of God! NEITHER ARE POLLS....!

James 1:22 You be DOERS of the Word, and not hearers ONLY, bringing a Delusion UPON YOURSELVES!

Thanks, Roger459

LOL LMAO! Righttttttt...you just keep believing that, now. *ROFL!*

(Revelation 2:20-to-23)

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
(Rev 2:21) And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
(Rev 2:22) Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
(Rev 2:23) And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Okay.... O____O;

THEN: God's position for WOMEN TEACHERS!

​

(Tittus 2:3-4-5) The aged [MATURE] women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

Hmm...

(*** 2:4)

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
(*** 2:5)To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. [/quote]


Discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their hubbies...unh-uhn, not in this day and age. Feminism is strong my brotha. And part of that scripture that thine offered (Titus 2:5), doth sucketh anywayz, cuz women were not created just to be homemakers and docile enough to stay home for a living when they can go out in the world and they have many opportunites. No way were we also created just for babymaking as well. Some women can't even produce children. Today's women are more independent, fyi. XD

 

[talitha]

I NOTICED THAT no one Responded to the Scripture verses I posted on Page #3 of this Thread? ? ?

Well, no one discussed my post on Page#2 either - I really think that you and I and everyone else just have such set opinions and beliefs on this subject that we are not interested in discussing other points of view. I will paste my post here after I respond to you. Maybe you would care to respond to me.

When confronted with the OPTIONS, women are NOT ALOUD TO TEACH, OR BE PASTORS = BY THE WORD OF GOD!

I do not agree with you on this - see Galatians 3!

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is not in the Word of God! NEITHER ARE POLLS....!

I DO agree with you on this!

FIRST: Why would a woman want to TEACH in a Church? ?

well, first, because God put the desire in her heart. I don't see an any of the listings of the spiritual gifts and manifestations where it says that certain ones are limited only to men. What I do see is that the Holy Spirit is to be poured out upon ALL flesh - specifically in Joel (and quoted by Peter in acts) - it says that this will happen to young and old, male and female, slave and free and children.

Did you miss this WOMAN TEACHER?

(Revelation 2:20-to-23)

​

So you are saying that since there was one female teacher of false things, that means that any women who teach are false teachers? Okay, than since Balaam was a false prophet, does that mean that any men who prophesy are false prophets?

THEN: God's position for WOMEN TEACHERS!

(Titus 2:3-4-5)

​

I do not see anything in this scripture that limits the spiritual freedom of women to exercise their giftings.​

​

Here is my post from page two, Roger, I'm posting it here for your convenience
​

woe is me - hubby and I can't have children, so I can be of no use in the Kingdom of God!

WRONG!

I realize that I will be ignored by some of the very people I'm trying to reach here because I'm a woman - but hey, at least I'm not a dishonest woman who would put up a genderless sock-puppet just so someone might pay attention to what I say....... to whoever has ears to hear:

For you are ALL SONS of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (cf Gal.3)

That's right, I am a SON OF GOD in Christ - in whom there is neither male nor female.

The daughters of Zelophehad speak what is right; you shall surely give them a possession of inheritance among their father's brothers, and cause the inheritance of their father to pass to them. (Numbers 27:7)

Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
This scripture is not speaking of women as opposed to men - I do believe that men and children should also - when learning - learn "in silence and with all submission" - it is speaking about how one should learn -and evidently there was a problem in Timothy's parish with women not following this protocol - women with arrogance problems. We are all - male and female - given great liberty in Christ, but neither men nor women should use their liberty as an occasion to the prideful flesh, but rather by love serve one another (Galatians 5:13).


And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
IN THE ORIGINAL GREEK this verse might well have read "And I do not permit a wife to teach or to have authority over her husband, in order that she might live a quiet, undisturbed, peaceable life." Most women know that the reason a wife can't teach her husband is because he won't listen. And it is a wise wife who knows that it is not a good idea for her husband to not seek advice from others outside the home - this makes the marriage a stagnant pool - nothing flowing in to refresh and invigorate......

For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
Adam was not deceived - he made the decision to sin in the full light of knowledge that it was sin - just to please his wife. It is a wise wife who knows that her advice to hubby may be self-serving, even if she doesn't realize it, for the heart (of a woman or of a man) is deceptive above all things. Better to seek the counsel of a party without so much of a vested interest..... because the husband, in the interest of pleasing his wife, is liable to do something he knows is wrong, just as Adam did.


Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they (the man and the wife?) continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
The curse for Eve that came as a result of her fall into transgression is pain in childbearing. I believe that this is what this verse is talking about - Jesus came to set us free from the curse of sin, and this verse seems to me to be a promise that women have available to them the promise of pain-free labour. (of course, this promise, like all the promises of God, must be apprehended, and this is a completely separate subject from the one the OP was trying to address, so let's not get too far offtrack - suffice it to say that the "saved in childbearing" clause has nothing to do with whether women may teach or not)

I certainly hope this clears it up for at least SOME people......

many blessings, all around, whether you agree with me or not.......
tal