Should Women Be Silent In Church?

[solid_core]

Okay. Putting your first sentence into practice, we then should execute all children who disobey their parents, homosexuals, murderers, and adulterers. Also, all false prophets are to be put to death. Also, women are not permitted to wear men's clothing, therefore trousers are out. If a person won't work, neither let him eat, therefore all welfare benefits for unemployed are unlawful.

That is the Law, and as you said, neither age, century, nation, ideology, nor culture changes it.

Trousers are not exclusively man's clothing.

All people in ancient times were wearing skirts, both men and women. The point of the verse is that man should not dress to deliberately look like a woman and vice versa - transvestites.

 

[com7fy8]

if Paul instructed Timothy that a woman should not teach or usurp authority over men,

There is a difference between having authority in mutual submission with someone, versus taking authority over the person.

And teaching can mean how someone dictates over and talks down to someone, versus together they help one another to learn.

And Paul says for a lady to ask her husband, at home. So, the speaking forbidden could mean how wives were starting conversations with their husbands, asking questions, right while attention should have been to the person speaking, or to prayer without talking.

Paul says to be quiet, then right away says what a wife should do.

Women have had the authority to ask Jesus Himself for things; and Jesus has granted their requests. And women have talked to Jesus Himself.

 

[solid_core]

That is the Law, and as you said, neither age, century, nation, ideology, nor culture changes it.

This Law was given to Jews until 70 AD. Not to us.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Trousers are now exclusively man's clothing.

All people in ancient times were wearing skirts, both men and women. The point of the verse is that man should not dress to deliberately look like a woman and vice versa - transvestites.

But there are churches that ban jeans and female trousers because of that Law. Are they correct?

 

[Carl Emerson]

In the 70's we had a fresh breath of God that transformed our church.

The growth was rapid and spiritual gifts were poured out.

With such conversion growth and a need for mature leadership, the women of the church were asked to consider taking a leadership role.

The women got together before God and sought wisdom on the matter.

After much prayer they independently and unanimously came to the decision NOT to assume leadership roles.

 

[solid_core]

But there are churches that ban jeans and female trousers because of that Law. Are they correct?

I misspelled "are not" to "are now".

Trousers are for both men and women in the same way as skirts were both for men and women in ancient times.

There are still differences in style and shape.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is a difference between having authority in mutual submission with someone, versus taking authority over the person.

And teaching can mean how someone dictates over and talks down to someone, versus together they help one another to learn.

And Paul says for a lady to ask her husband, at home. So, the speaking forbidden could mean how wives were starting conversations with their husbands, asking questions, right while attention should have been to the person speaking, or to prayer without talking.

Paul says to be quiet, then right away says what a wife should do.

Women have had the authority to ask Jesus Himself for things; and Jesus has granted their requests. And women have talked to Jesus Himself.

I believe that is the reason why Paul wrote it (if he actually did). The services were chaotic and disordered and Paul was instructing the Corinthians to sort things out so their services, in future, are run decently and in order.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Okay. Putting your first sentence into practice, we then should execute all children who disobey their parents, homosexuals, murderers, and adulterers. Also, all false prophets are to be put to death. Also, women are not permitted to wear men's clothing, therefore trousers are out. If a person won't work, neither let him eat, therefore all welfare benefits for unemployed are unlawful.

That is the Law, and as you said, neither age, century, nation, ideology, nor culture changes it.

Neither understand Scripture, nor the power of Yahuweh ?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This Law was given to Jews until 70 AD. Not to us.

Oh. So not all Scripture is what you previously said it was?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Neither understand Scripture, nor the power of Yahuweh ?

What I am saying is that we need to apply the skill of hermeneutics to Scripture to ensure that what was written to one group of people does or does not apply to us.

 

[solid_core]

Oh. So not all Scripture is what you previously said it was?

I do not understand your question.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel, only. And was finished/fullfilled in 70 AD.

Since that time we live in the spiritual Kingdom of God and the actual testament is the New Testament. It applies to all nations on Earth, to both "Jew and Greek".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What I am saying is that we need to apply the skill of hermeneutics to Scripture to ensure that what was written to one group of people does or does not apply to us.

OR
as written in Scripture,
learn how Simon barjona learned Jesus is Messiah.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I do not understand your question.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel, only. And was finished/fullfilled in 70 AD.

Since that time we live in the spiritual Kingdom of God and the actual testament is the New Testament. It applies to all nations on Earth, to both "Jew and Greek".

But my friend said:
"Neither age, century, nation, ideology, nor culture changes God's Word".
This is a general statement, and the Old Testament is just as inspired as the New. So I challenged the statement, because the reality is, as you quite rightly say, that what was the Law for the Jews under the Old Covenant, does not apply in most cases to believers under the New Covenant. Therefore my friend's statement as it stands is incorrect, because God's Word did change from the Old to the New Covenant.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

OR
as written in Scripture,
learn how Simon barjona learned Jesus is Messiah.

There were many things in the Bible said to select groups of people which cannot be directly applied to believers in general.

Such as Jeremiah 29:11: "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope."
This was said to the Jews still living in exile in Babylon. It was God's assurance that they had a future and would not be in their present situation long term. In actual fact, under Cyrus, the Jews were able to return to Jerusalem to rebuild it. Although modern believers accept it as a direct word to them, in actual fact, it is not. Even though that word was given to the Jews in Babylon, many died before the 70 years were up, so there was no future for them as indicated by the prophecy of Jeremiah. To really understand the verse, we need to read the whole passage to put it into its proper context.

So, if 1 Corinthians 14 was about the proper running of Christian services, involving tongues and prophecy. It is interesting that Paul's instruction not to forbid the speaking in tongues, and to have the desire to prophesy is in the same passage, but most churches oppose tongues and prophecy and say it is not for today; so what's to stop me saying that the instruction for women to keep silence in churches is not for today either? And I would include verses 26-33 as well. In fact I could say that the whole passage from verse 1 right through to the end of the chapter is not for today, because most churches don't organise their Sunday services that way.

So, to be consistent, we need to say that the whole of 1 Corinthians 14 is still as applicable to churches today as it was when Paul wrote the letter, or not. If it is applicable, then most of our churches are being disobedient to clear Scripture which does not change over time, culture, nation, etc.

So we can't extract one verse and say that we must abide by it, and ignore the rest of the passage. It's like saying that we have to abide by one of the Ten Commandments but ignore the rest of them.

 

[Not David]

Serious posting: It talks about the office of clergy (maybe about asking questions when the Liturgy was going).

Zoomer posting: Of course! They should also be cover from head to toes otherwise they will destroy everything as Jean Gray did! Reeeee...

 

[Emsmom1]

I did a google search but could not find anything about Corrie ten Boom and women in church. Can someone help me out?

 

[Basil the Great]

If one believes that the Bible really is the word of God, then I guess women do need to keep silent in church and be submissive to their husbands and wear a head covering and slaves must be obey their masters. However, if the Bible writers were just inspired by God and often spoke simply representing the culture and the times in which they lived, then perhaps women need not be silent in church and or wear head coverings or be submissive to their husbands and then slaves need not obey their masters. (Remember those of you who say that there are no slaves any longer, that slavery was an institution in the United States until the 1860's and slavery no doubt still does exist in a few areas on Earth.)

 

[timewerx]

What we have to consider is whether Paul's comment is culture-dependent or trans-cultural.

It's culture dependent.

Just like Romans 13:3. Would anyone vouch for Romans 13:3 applicable to Mexico? In Mexico where authorities terrorize the innocent and work with organized criminals?

Paul's letters are just that, letters.....

If the people whom it was addressed to read those, there wouldn't be any problems.... But force a 2000 AD caveman to read it, there will be problems, like throwing pearls to pigs.

The majority of Christians are mostly divided over Paul's teachings. Duh.... You're reading letters that isn't for you!

At least the Biblical prophecy is right that only few will find the way and the majority will be deceived.

 

[com7fy8]

most church members sit like silent wooden statues in the church meetings anyway!

It does not mean how certain women can give a man the silent treatment.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There were many things in the Bible said to select groups of people which cannot be directly applied to believers in general.

Yochanan the immerser said "NO MAN may receive anything UNLESS it is GRANTED to him BY THE FATHER IN HEAVEN"