Should Women Be Silent In Church?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have a question. If Paul's instruction to the Corinthian church that women should keep silent in church and ask their husbands at home was to be applied to the Christian churches in general, and not specifically to the Corinthians, then why did he support Philip's four daughters prophesying in church? And if he outlawed women having leadership role in a church, why didn't he tell Lydia (Acts 16:40) that if she continue running a church in her home, she was being false and contravening Scripture? And if he didn't agree with women teaching men, why did he support Priscilla teaching Apollos the true gospel of Christ?

Was Paul two-faced, where he prohibited women speaking in one church and allowed it in others? Or was their a specific reason that he gave that instruction to the Corinthians because of something that was specific to them? Or, did he actually write that verse, because it seems out of the context of the passage, or what is some scribe who added it later on. We can't know, because we don't have the original that Paul actually wrote. We have a copy that was made 300 years later.

And if Paul instructed Timothy that a woman should not teach or usurp authority over men, then what about a woman teaching other women? There seems to be no prohibition on that. And having a woman pastor or elder, does that role necessarily involved usurping authority over the male elders of the church? In my Presbyterian church a woman elder has just one vote alongside the majority votes of the male elders. And we had a woman minister for a while, and she has just one vote on the board of elders as well, and she conducted her ministry and preaching with the full support and permission of the male ruling elders of the church. So she was usurping no one's authority at all.

But there are churches where the Pastor or Minister is the sole authority, and the elders are there just to rubber stamp his decisions. I don't think that is good church government and raises a number of serious problems in terms of money management and unmoderated teaching which opens the way for falsehood. So if a woman is holding that pastoral role where she is at the top of the authority pyramid, then Paul would be quite right in opposing her in that role.

 

[Sabertooth]

Sic 'em!

 

[Adventist Heretic]

if they will be associated with temple prostitutes, yes, if not then no.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

if they will be associated with temple prostitutes, yes, if not then no.

Huh?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE=]I have a question. If Paul's instruction to the Corinthian church that women should keep silent in church and ask their husbands at home was to be applied to the Christian churches in general, and not specifically to the Corinthians, then why did he support Philip's four daughters prophesying in church? And if he outlawed women having leadership role in a church, why didn't he tell Lydia (Acts 16:40) that if she continue running a church in her home, she was being false and contravening Scripture? And if he didn't agree with women teaching men, why did he support Priscilla teaching Apollos the true gospel of Christ?

Was Paul two-faced, where he prohibited women speaking in one church and allowed it in others? Or was their a specific reason that he gave that instruction to the Corinthians because of something that was specific to them? Or, did he actually write that verse, because it seems out of the context of the passage, or what is some scribe who added it later on. We can't know, because we don't have the original that Paul actually wrote. We have a copy that was made 300 years later.

And if Paul instructed Timothy that a woman should not teach or usurp authority over men, then what about a woman teaching other women? There seems to be no prohibition on that. And having a woman pastor or elder, does that role necessarily involved usurping authority over the male elders of the church? In my Presbyterian church a woman elder has just one vote alongside the majority votes of the male elders. And we had a woman minister for a while, and she has just one vote on the board of elders as well, and she conducted her ministry and preaching with the full support and permission of the male ruling elders of the church. So she was usurping no one's authority at all.

But there are churches where the Pastor or Minister is the sole authority, and the elders are there just to rubber stamp his decisions. I don't think that is good church government and raises a number of serious problems in terms of money management and unmoderated teaching which opens the way for falsehood. So if a woman is holding that pastoral role where she is at the top of the authority pyramid, then Paul would be quite right in opposing her in that role.[/QUOTE
===============================================
Somewhere, decades ago, Corrie ten Boom answered this perfectly. It is good fun searching also, as her testimony is rather 'unique' in the last 100 years in the public eye, and a lot of churches in 63 countries, with no fund raiser, no committee support, no asking for money ever, i.e. a true life of faith and faithfulness in Jesus, instead of other.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

did some papers in college about this topic, there are 2 issue that in play here 1. the fact that women are not educated and they are disrupting the service, women were not allowed participate before this no they are and new issues are arising because of the there lack of experiance and training, so Paul said ask at home. 2. women in religious worship were almost universally seen as temple prostitutes. So paul is telling them not to be associated with that that will ruin our efforts to reach some of the Jews and wreck the reputation of the Church.

 

[Silverback]

I have a question. If Paul's instruction to the Corinthian church that women should keep silent in church and ask their husbands at home was to be applied to the Christian churches in general, and not specifically to the Corinthians, then why did he support Philip's four daughters prophesying in church? And if he outlawed women having leadership role in a church, why didn't he tell Lydia (Acts 16:40) that if she continue running a church in her home, she was being false and contravening Scripture? And if he didn't agree with women teaching men, why did he support Priscilla teaching Apollos the true gospel of Christ?

Was Paul two-faced, where he prohibited women speaking in one church and allowed it in others? Or was their a specific reason that he gave that instruction to the Corinthians because of something that was specific to them? Or, did he actually write that verse, because it seems out of the context of the passage, or what is some scribe who added it later on. We can't know, because we don't have the original that Paul actually wrote. We have a copy that was made 300 years later.

And if Paul instructed Timothy that a woman should not teach or usurp authority over men, then what about a woman teaching other women? There seems to be no prohibition on that. And having a woman pastor or elder, does that role necessarily involved usurping authority over the male elders of the church? In my Presbyterian church a woman elder has just one vote alongside the majority votes of the male elders. And we had a woman minister for a while, and she has just one vote on the board of elders as well, and she conducted her ministry and preaching with the full support and permission of the male ruling elders of the church. So she was usurping no one's authority at all.

But there are churches where the Pastor or Minister is the sole authority, and the elders are there just to rubber stamp his decisions. I don't think that is good church government and raises a number of serious problems in terms of money management and unmoderated teaching which opens the way for falsehood. So if a woman is holding that pastoral role where she is at the top of the authority pyramid, then Paul would be quite right in opposing her in that role.

Wouldn't that be a blessing!

 

[Jonaitis]

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

It was universal, not cultural.

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

It is plural, both "women" and "churches."

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

Paul bases his argument from the revealed Law.

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

It is a disgrace and a scandal.

It appears that this refers to the public gathering.

I didn't feel like responding to the rest of your post, just pointing these things out.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

what law?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Somewhere, decades ago, Corrie ten Boom answered this perfectly.

That's really helpful. Very illuminating.

Yes, women should keep silent in the Church.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

It was universal, not cultural.

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

It is plural, both "women" and "churches."

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

Paul bases his argument from the revealed Law.

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 33-35

It is a disgrace and a scandal.

It appears that this refers to the public gathering.

I didn't feel like responding to the rest of your post, just pointing these things out.

What we have to consider is whether Paul's comment is culture-dependent or trans-cultural.

In most of our organised churches, it would make an iota of difference because most church members sit like silent wooden statues in the church meetings anyway!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That's really helpful. Very illuminating.

Yes, women should keep silent in the Church.

To get wisdom out of a deep well, it must be drawn out, according to all Scripture.

Corrie ten Boom is the best example I know of for the topic/ question. It is not a look quick, find a sentence answer - it is her whole life and testimony, and reading a few books and seeing her lessons or testimony on youtube if and when it is available.....

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That's really helpful. Very illuminating.

Yes, women should keep silent in the Church.

Actually in the vast majority of churches they do, In fact, everyone, men and women, do, except the Minister or Pastor performs his "thing" from the front!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What we have to consider is whether Paul's comment is culture-dependent or trans-cultural.

Neither age, century, nation, ideology, nor culture changes God's Word .

In most of our organised churches, it would make an iota of difference because most church members sit like silent wooden statues in the church meetings anyway!

What does that say about those places ?

 

[thecolorsblend]

To get wisdom out of a deep well, it must be drawn out, according to all Scripture.

Corrie ten Boom hasn't written a single word of scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Corrie ten Boom hasn't written a single word of scripture.

Good start. Glad you do know something about her.

 

[solid_core]

Yes, please.

Also, they must not lead or control their husbands.

The New Testament view of society is patriarchal.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Good start. Glad you do know something about her.

I know quite a bit about her. But posting some of it here would probably get me banned.

Since you seem to enjoy "drawing from the well", the information is a Google search away. Happy hunting.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I know quite a bit about her. Posting some of it here would probably get me banned.

No. Nothing she said or shared would get you banned. So then, do you really know ?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Neither age, century, nation, ideology, nor culture changes God's Word .

What does that say about those places ?

Okay. Putting your first sentence into practice, we then should execute all children who disobey their parents, homosexuals, murderers, and adulterers. Also, all false prophets are to be put to death. Also, women are not permitted to wear men's clothing, therefore trousers are out. If a person won't work, neither let him eat, therefore all welfare benefits for unemployed are unlawful.

That is the Law, and as you said, neither age, century, nation, ideology, nor culture changes it.