Should we invite G_d / Holy Spirit to be with us?

yeshuaslavejeff

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that flies in the face of the "One God" we messianics proclaim in the Shema.
Not at all, no.
I'm 'very' messianic (not all the possible different doctrines, but as in being ECHAD with MESSIAH, as MESSIAH is ECHAD with the FATHER, so we ekklesia immersed in His Name are ECHAD with Him AND with the Father) Perhaps that's why ECHAD is so unknown today. (even in the Shema though !?!?)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It is a call to re-unit with God, who is ever near but far from many because of their neglectful, sinful, rebellious stances. We just need reminding.
re-unite you mean ? And/Or for once (not before, not again, not "re-" , just be made one, finally) , in faith, immersed in Him, become ONE, Echad, as Jesus prayed in John 17 ? (when we are His disciples, as He Says)
 
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TerryWoodenpic

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Presbyterianism is a Protestant, Free Church, able to determine its own Scriptural beliefs. Anglicanism is Protestant but NOT a Free Church and is not able to determine its own Scriptural beliefs. These are not just matters of how one organises a denomination.
I would not get too tied by book definitions and web searches. Any independant church controlled by its own appointed presbyters is Presbyterian. They are usually strict protestants but only recently of calvin orthodoxy.
The NSP do not fall into that bracket.

The Scriptual Beliefs of the church of England Anglicans are very wide indeed, embracing the near "Roman" Anglo catholics to the near puritans, and extreme liberal churches. Almost no notice is given to the origional 39 articles of faith and westminister confession. To which ministers are no longer bound.
Our recent past rector saw no need to believe in the virgin birth, the miracles, or many of the other normally accepted doctrines of the church. Though he did consider UU beliefs dangerous.
As I said previously it is an extremely broad church indeed. With quite widely divergent views accepted with out comment. The associated American Anglican, Episcopalians, are an equally broad and liberal church. While those in Africa are closer to calvanism and not at all liberal.

Some would not consider Anglicans to be protestant at all, but rather "Catholic light" which is certainly true of the style of worship.

A quirk of the Anglican church and Church law. Gives the care of all souls in a parish, to the parish priest. As such, every one can worship in an Anglican church and can not be denied. Nor can be refused Baptism.
 
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Dave-W

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Not at all, no.
I'm 'very' messianic (not all the possible different doctrines, but as in being ECHAD with MESSIAH, as MESSIAH is ECHAD with the FATHER, so we ekklesia immersed in His Name are ECHAD with Him AND with the Father) Perhaps that's why ECHAD is so unknown today. (even in the Shema though !?!?)
You misunderstood what he wrote. He was saying the Father and Yeshua were 2 completely separate gods.
 
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Heber Book List

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I would not get too tied by book definitions and web searches. Any independant church controlled by its own appointed presbyters is Presbyterian. They are usually strict protestants but only recently of calvin orthodoxy.
The NSP do not fall into that bracket.

The Scriptual Beliefs of the church of England Anglicans are very wide indeed, embracing the near "Roman" Anglo catholics to the near puritans, and extreme liberal churches. Almost no notice is given to the origional 39 articles of faith and westminister confession. To which ministers are no longer bound.
Our recent past rector saw no need to believe in the virgin birth, the miracles, or many of the other normally accepted doctrines of the church. Though he did consider UU beliefs dangerous.
As I said previously it is an extremely broad church indeed. With quite widely divergent views accepted with out comment. The associated American Anglican, Episcopalians, are an equally broad and liberal church. While those in Africa are closer to calvanism and not at all liberal.

Some would not consider Anglicans to be protestant at all, but rather "Catholic light" which is certainly true of the style of worship.

A quirk of the Anglican church and Church law. Gives the care of all souls in a parish, to the parish priest. As such, every one can worship in an Anglican church and can not be denied. Nor can be refused Baptism.

I know all that - I studied in an Anglican Theological College and a Presbyterian Theological College
 
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tampasteve

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I would not get too tied by book definitions and web searches. Any independant church controlled by its own appointed presbyters is Presbyterian. They are usually strict protestants but only recently of calvin orthodoxy.
The NSP do not fall into that bracket.
Then would that not be "presbyterian" the small "p" matters as the capital "P" would be the denomination specific?
 
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visionary

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The OP was about a whole congregation asking him to come and join them in their worship of him. That is contrary to scripture.

As I have already said, on this thread, it is a different matter when asking G_d into our lives when we first believe, or if we feel estranged from him, but not just every Sunday in a gathering of believers!
Revival needs the call... The Holy Spirit will speak to the heart that needs to hear it.
 
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Laureate

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Revival needs the call... The Holy Spirit will speak to the heart that needs to hear it.


According to Isaiah, many are intoxicated, while others are lethargic, thus we are called upon to Wake up, and be sober minded, and we see this nearly everywhere we look, and we find those who are sleepwalking are as those who are inebriated both are completely unaware (or stand in doubt) of their handicaped disposition.

They find Comfort and Assurance in reasoning with and amongst their like minded peers, where Yésʰûəʰ asks his own disciples (whom he deems to be the Ye of little faith), are you reasoning amongst yourselves?

Though heaven invites us to come together to reason with one another we tend to do so in a segregated fashion and thereby pull the wool over our wolfing eyes, convincing ourselves that we are fulfilling the intent of scripture, where in actuality such Comfort and Assurance only makes it more difficult to out grow immaturity and false notions.

The same tendency of the Ye of little faith circumvents their continuance in the Word, for the Ye of little faith conclude matters before all the chips can be properly counted and appropriately applied, which only strengthens the separation and divisions of the denominations.

Now, consider the severity of blaspheming Ruakʰ H'kôdesʰ, whom in my estimation we have all been inadvertently guilty of blaspheming, where many interpret the penalty to be a debt that can never be paid, when in reality it is a debt that can not be pardoned, and therefore must be paid whether in this life time or the next;

When Zechariah (John's father) failed to acknowledge the authority of Gabriel, by asking for a Sign to certify the legitimacy of the divine revelation, even he had to pay the price by spending nine months (or so) as a mute;

Even Sarah who laughed at the report of bearing a child at her old age, tried to deny her laughter out of fear.

Eve whom doubted the report of her own divinity thereby ushered in the curse of Adam and Adamah;

As was mentioned in an earlier post, those who have/get it, are given more to possess, and those who do not have/get it, have that which they possess abated from them, thus if one fails to acknowledge the presence of the Spirit, are subject to find the Spirit abating from them, and with it the need to invite it back into their Conscious hearts and minds.

And though it is true, "Revival needs the call...", and "The Holy Spirit will speak to the heart that needs to hear it" discernment is necessary, for Many rehearse formulas because they witness it's effectiveness, yet fail to take into consideration the divine implications, thus such a Group Song or Prayer should be prefaced in a manner where those present understand that it is a Song/Prayer not to uttered by those who have already uttered it until they find themselves out side of the covenant, and are returning from veering off the path.
 
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visionary

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re-unite you mean ? And/Or for once (not before, not again, not "re-" , just be made one, finally) , in faith, immersed in Him, become ONE, Echad, as Jesus prayed in John 17 ? (when we are His disciples, as He Says)
I do not believe that even today we have reached that point where as a body of believers we are "one" in Him. We have our moments with Him. I believe that a bigger Pentecost is coming. It will cleanse us of all unrighteousness for we will no longer be looking at it darkly.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I do not believe that even today we have reached that point where as a body of believers we are "one" in Him. We have our moments with Him. I believe that a bigger Pentecost is coming. It will cleanse us of all unrighteousness for we will no longer be looking at it darkly.
At first after considering to reply, I decided to wait on YHWH and moved on,
then the next post I read was this one:

"quote: =================================
----------------- quote: "Bungle_Bear said:
So you can touch heaven at 8150 feet? Or has heaven moved further away since then?"
-----------------
Some people never ever get to see heaven, nor touch it.
Others, already are in the kingdom , as Jesus Says. (it is in our midst) (and has been)
  • clear.png
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Yesterday at 8:01 PM
================================ end quote"
 
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visionary

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At first after considering to reply, I decided to wait on YHWH and moved on,
then the next post I read was this one:

"quote: =================================
----------------- quote: "Bungle_Bear said:
So you can touch heaven at 8150 feet? Or has heaven moved further away since then?"
-----------------
Some people never ever get to see heaven, nor touch it.
Others, already are in the kingdom , as Jesus Says. (it is in our midst) (and has been)
Yesterday at 8:01 PM
================================ end quote"
I have seen and understand this.
 
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Laureate

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I do not believe that even today we have reached that point where as a body of believers we are "one" in Him. We have our moments with Him. I believe that a bigger Pentecost is coming. It will cleanse us of all unrighteousness for we will no longer be looking at it darkly.

Precisely what the baptism of the second advent will usher in, for Pentecost was not intended to just be a Memorial of an event that took place, but of an event that shall take place before (both) the Great and Awesome Day of (Î)yéhûʷəʰ, yea, for Elijah shall truly come first and restore Everything.
 
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Lulav

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I was in an evangelic, charismatic Church last Sunday, that is very Israel centred in much of what it does, and openly supportive of all things Messianic.

During a time of worship and prayer we sang a chorus that, in as many words, called upon G_d / Holy Spirit / Jesus to come among us, in much the same way as laziness in prayer causes people to pray for 'G_d to be with' whoever, whatever is on their minds.

I was quite disturbed about this and spoke to the key musician, asking why we were inviting G_d to come among us - is he not always with us in every situation, circumstance and event in our lives? The musician quoted several evangelical, charismatic conferences where this was being done as a lead into worship, and so his use of that chorus was legitimate. I pointed out a few Scriptures that beg to differ from this view, but I do not know whether he was convinced of the negative view it posited about us having to invite him (G_d) into our worship of him.

What do you people think?

Ever since you wrote this OP I've had this song playing over and over in my head, so I have to ask, was it this one?

 
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Heber Book List

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Ever since you wrote this OP I've had this song playing over and over in my head, so I have to ask, was it this one?


Hi Lulav, no it wasn't that song :) The actual song is immaterial, it is what it says that is the key. I do not see a problem in inviting the Holy Spirit to fill us again - Paul reminds us to be filled constantly with the Holy Spirit in a present continuous sense. The problem, for me, is inviting G_d / Messiah to come and join us in our worship, instead of simply thanking him for being there in the first place. The idea of the original Call to Worship was that G_d calls us, not that we have to call him, as the prophets of Ba'al tried to get their god to wake up, or return from holiday, in the battle with Elijah.
 
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fat wee robin

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That is, in context, about the judgement of fellow believers, about witnesses, righteous judgement, it is about what we permit on earth and what is permitted in heaven, as seen in the verses immediately prior to the one you quote, even though it is constantly used to justify small congregations or other meetings. But it does make the point I have been making - that he is always with us: when we lie down, when we get up, when we go out and when we come in. The whole of scripture is about G_d with us at all times as we are reminded at this time of year: emanu El. He cannot, not, be with us, and he invites us to meet with him in our worship times - it cannot be the other way round. He shows no favouritism so he is not with people in a 'special way' - he is just there, in all his might, power and majesty, whether we are sick or well, poor or rich, free or slave, Jew or Gentile, male or female.

What we actually mean is that we want to encourage the person who is sick / in trouble / in need / unbeliever or apostate, to be able to know (ie to fully experience) that he is there, that they are not alone, that the King of kings and Lord of lords, El Shaddai, is tending to their situation. Anything less than that is surely the opposite of what he says about himself in scripture.
God is always there ,but not always in a living relationship with us, when we cut Him out ,do not 'call' on Him . Neglect can prevent us from having His living energy in us .I would disagree that we benefit by assuming .This is not love ,but arrogance in my opinion.
 
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Heber Book List

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God is always there ,but not always in a living relationship with us, when we cut Him out ,do not 'call' on Him . Neglect can prevent us from having His living energy in us .I would disagree that we benefit by assuming .This is not love ,but arrogance in my opinion.

I do not understand what you are saying. Can you please make it clearer? :)
 
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Laureate

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God is always there ,but not always in a living relationship with us, when we cut Him out ,do not 'call' on Him . Neglect can prevent us from having His living energy in us .I would disagree that we benefit by assuming .This is not love ,but arrogance in my opinion.


Always present, "...for in him we move and have our existence..." yet He says, "how shall I היה 'Come, Manifest, Be, etc.,' unto you?"

If you mistaken Him for Beelzebub then He will hand you over to Beelzebub, be careful how we measure, interpret, or imagine, for the same will be measured back.
 
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Heber Book List

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As he says: behold, I stand at the door (of your soul), and knock. If anyone opens the door and invites me, I will eat with him, and he with me.

Or: And, remember, I will be with you always, yes, even to the end of the age.

Or: So do not fear, for I am with you

Or: Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go

Or:Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake you

Or: The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing

Or: Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, 'I will never leave you nor forsake you

Or: For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord

Or: Devise a plan, but it will be thwarted; State a proposal, but it will not stand, For God is with us

Or: The LORD of hosts is with us; The God of Jacob is our stronghold

Or: Then Haggai, the messenger of the LORD, spoke by the commission of the LORD to the people saying, " 'I am with you,' declares the LORD

Or: Do not be afraid of the king of Babylon, whom you are now fearing; do not be afraid of him,' declares the LORD, 'for I am with you to save you and deliver you from his hand.

Or: He named the place Massah and Meribah because of the quarrel of the sons of Israel, and because they tested the LORD, saying, "Is the LORD among us, or not?

Or: Emmanu El

Or: The Spirit and the Bride say, come, let anyone who is thirsty come - let anyone who wishes take the water of life free of charge. (The ultimate call by G_d for his people to come to him - we do not enter heaven by telling G_d we want to!)

You get the idea? :)

We can invite G_d into our lives, or the lives of other people, where there is backsliding / seeking / conversion etc. We can invite the HS to fill / refill us at any time, as Paul says. But once we are a believer, G_d is with us at all times, even if it doesn't feel like it. It is he that invites us to meet with him so that we can worship him, talk to him and listen to him, as a community of his people, just as he met with Moses and the people at the Tent of MEETING (note the name of the first Tabernacle!). He doesn't change - he does everything in the same way, today, as he did yesterday and as he will do tomorrow. :)
 
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visionary

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re-unite you mean ? And/Or for once (not before, not again, not "re-" , just be made one, finally) , in faith, immersed in Him, become ONE, Echad, as Jesus prayed in John 17 ? (when we are His disciples, as He Says)
Yep, I meant re-unite. Think about the Prodigal son.
 
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