• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Should trying to conceive a child be made illegal if personhood starts at conception?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by ranunculus, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    http://www.webmd.com/baby/guide/pregnancy-miscarriage

    The chance that a person is killed involuntarily is way too high. Let's take a conservative estimate and say the number is somewhere between 10% and 50%. In 2015 there were almost 4 million live births in the United States. That means that between 400,000 and 4 million people (babies / fetuses / zygotes) died to achieve that number.

    If every time you drove a car there was a 10 to 50% percent chance that a person ends up dead, you would not be allowed to drive a car.

    Should people who think personhood starts at conception be in favor of criminalizing pregnancies? Or is it OK for millions of children to die as long as it results in an equal or greater number of live births?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

    +4,507
    Catholic
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    You're suggesting that pro-life people should embrace the genocide of the entire human race because of the chance that a natural process may occur?

    I mean... wow...
     
  3. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    Is it OK for millions of children to die as long as it results in an equal or greater number of live births?
     
  4. Mary Meg

    Mary Meg Active Member

    339
    +337
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Your intentions matter. If every time a person got behind the wheel of a car, he intentionally tried to run over someone, no, he shouldn't be allowed to drive. But if his intention is to drive safely and protect himself and others, then that's ok — that's why we license drivers.

    Nobody who conceives a child — whether intentionally or not — has the intention of causing the death of an innocent. If a zygote or very young fetus miscarries, through no fault or intention of the mother, then that's just something that happens — she is not at fault. God, in His wisdom, knows children who die, but the fact that they did naturally is no one's fault.

    You know what? Everybody who is born, is going to die. Should we criminalize being born, because that's going to cause a death someday?
     
    • Winner Winner x 7
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  5. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +3,617
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    One hundred percent of all human conceptions end in death.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • List
  6. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +8,930
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    What a strange argument you propose.
    Pro-life isn't about numbers, it's asks the question 'Is it ethical and moral to allow a person to end the life of another person, even though that person is still in the womb?'
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  7. MariaJLM

    MariaJLM Crazy Cat Lady

    979
    +1,184
    Canada
    Eastern Orthodox
    Celibate
    CA-Others
    This has to be one of the weakest pro-choice arguments I've ever seen. Previous posters have already addressed why and I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  8. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    I'm not talking about intentionally killing someone with a car, I'm talking about accidents. If half the time you drove a car, you accidentally killed someone, you would not be allowed to drive. Why is it allowed for getting pregnant?

    And how do you know it was no one's fault without an inquest, an investigation into every failed pregnancy? Are you just going to take their word for it? How do you differentiate between a spontaneous miscarriage and a self induced miscarriage?

    That can't be helped. But you can stop miscarriages by not getting pregnant.
     
  9. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    Except if you're a Christian, then you get to live forever.
     
  10. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    Depends. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.
    But why isn't it a numbers game? If a fetus is a person, then miscarriage is the number one health crisis in the world. The average lifespan of humans isn't 80, it's closer to 45 if that's the case. What's been done to stop them?

    *edited to ask, 'Is it ethical and moral to allow a person to accidentally end the life of another person 50% of the time, even though that person is still in the womb?'
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  11. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    I'm just exposing the inconsistencies of the pro life rhetoric. Millions of children die in the womb and no one bats an eye.
     
  12. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

    +2,850
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    Yes, I'm all in favor of jailing people whose pregnancies are abruptly ended (without their consent) due to natural processes beyond their control. /sarcasm
     
  13. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    I was thinking we should jail the person who designed those natural processes.
     
  14. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

    +2,850
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    So you believe that personhood starts at conception as the rest of us do?
     
  15. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    No I'm using your arguments.
     
  16. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

    +2,850
    United States
    Catholic
    Celibate
    But I haven't argued that anyone should be jailed for natural processes, so you certainly aren't using my arguments.
     
  17. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist Supporter

    +5,178
    Atheist
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    If one believes that full personhood in conferred at conception miscarriages would be the foremost issue that needs to be addressed. Abortion would not even be a priority as we are dealing with a disorder that kills the majority of people. That this is not even addressed by anti-abortion groups and individuals is one of many reasons that I don't believe that they believe what they claim to.
     
  18. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +8,930
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    imo, this argument is even more ridiculous.
     
  19. MariaJLM

    MariaJLM Crazy Cat Lady

    979
    +1,184
    Canada
    Eastern Orthodox
    Celibate
    CA-Others
    The difference is that miscarriages are natural deaths that are occurring on their own. Abortions are not. It's the elective termination of a pregnancy.
     
  20. ranunculus

    ranunculus very large ah-brain

    724
    +213
    Luxembourg
    Atheist
    Single
    I'll quote one of my previous posts if you want to know why I think it's practically impossible to grant personhood from conception.

     
Loading...