Should the United States COnquer the Earth?

[Warrior4Jah]

Lacmeh, Hussein poses a MAJOR threat to the US, he has the power to destroy countless lives, this is what makes him different from every other "lunatic dictator" in the world. Hussein has the power and hes going to use it. You can't justify NOT doing the right thing because of past blunders, I already explained this to you. Rather then dwelling on it we have to learn from our mistakes and not let the same thing happen. BTW, theres a rather significant difference between poison gas and NUCLEAR weapons.

But on a different note, the only time I can recall Hussein using poison gas was on his own people which killed thousands, the USA never happily supported him then. Could you please name the conflict which you speak of?

 

[Job_38]

Originally posted by Sky
America is the real terrorist nation, not Iraq.

 

Care to elaborate? Or shall we leave it at that?

 

[Lacmeh]

It was in the Iraq - Iran war.
And despite the fact, that he used it, he still got weapons from the US.
The US supported terrorists in South America and Middle America and nobody thoought the US to be a terrorist nation.
Some Arab nations support terrorists, but they are the big bad terrorist nations.

China has hte potential to threaten the US, too. No preemptive strike against China.
India and Pakistan have already nuclear weapons. Pakistan is a Muslim dominated nation. No preemptive strike against Pakistan either.

Declaring war, because someone MIGHT do something is against international law. Well as I said before, the US doesn´t give [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] about laws and treaties and you wonder, why the US is not loved.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Brimshack
"I just thought of something. In 98, why did everyone think Clinton was wagging the dog? Why doesn't anyone think that now?"

…because anything and everything Clinton does is evil, naturally; if good Republicans do the same thig, it MUST be for the good of us all.

 

Nice point Brimshack,

Expanding on your thought, consider this point:  Clinton had at least two chances that I've found to take out Osama Bin Laden.  Yet all he accomplished was wasting 24 cruise missiles (anyone know the current price of these babies?)  If Clinton had INDEED accomplished what he claimed he was attempting, the 9/11 tradgedy may have never occurred.  Of course this is only a speculation.

To add to your thoughts:

How many Americans are aware of the outright lies that President George Sr. stated were occuring in Iraq in order to keep the public majority behind our first war?

I'm waiting to see what Junior is going to tell us in order to rally public support.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Sky
America is the real terrorist nation, not Iraq.

Sky:

You've still failed to prove your statement, which is a slap in the face to all those who have served, fought, and died for the freedoms you obviously take for granted.

1. Has the U.S. ever used chemical weapons to exterminate an ethnic group of it's own citizens...No...(Iraq has)

2. Has any of our President's upon their inauguration, had the majority of the current cabinet leaders led out to their executions?...No...But Hussein did when he came to power.

3.  Are secret service agents deployed within America's streets to identify and subsequently have executed those who oppose the current government...No...But this happens daily in Iraq.  Since Hussein took power, public executions have been a daily occurence in Iraq.

I can continue...but I think I've made enough points to shoot down your quite disturbing claim.  We may not agree with our leaders, but we aren't executed for speeking out against them.

You state you are ashamed to be an American, yet you discount the number of brave men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice (their lives) starting with the Revolutionary War to provide you the freedom to make such claims without the fear of facing a firing squad.

 

[Brimshack]

Note to self: Gerry and Smilin have learned message-board akido; they will use my sarcasm against me. Must change strategy.

Hindsight is 2020 on the need to eliminate OBL, and it is far more easy to justify such an attack now than it was then, but Clinton's missile attacks were a farce; I'll give you that.

On chemical weapons and genocide, it is of course standard U.S. policy to commit such attrocities by proxy, but if sending small pox infested blankets to the Mandan villages didn't count as a form of biological warfare in the interest of genocide, I don't know what does.

 

[Sky]

America does have executions against convicted murderers, that is wrong. America does have nukes and has not ruled out using them on Iraq or some other so-called "terrorist" nation. America has more WMD's than Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Al Qaeda put together. This country uses it's status as a superpower to bully other nations around and tell them how to run THEIR country. Bush supports the sensless killings of thousands of Iraqi's and a few American soldiers in his stupid war. Bush has detained thousands of foreingners and even some AMERICAN CITIZENS like Jose Padilla without due process, and without charging them with a crime. America has instituted it's spy program and other unconstitutional methods of homeland security. America is the real terrorist nation and Bush is the real terrorist leader, not iraq. America needs to completely reform it's government and dismantle it's WMD's, and it( the government) needs to stop killing people.

America is not the 'sweet land of liberty' that you think it is.

 

[Awake]

Smilin, methinks you missed the point of my post.  Perhaps I should be a little more clear.

[gets on soapbox]

I in no way believe that we should conquer the world.  I likewise do not believe that we should try to appease the likes of Hussein.  Trying to be friends with him and dictators like him will only get you killed.  There comes a time when we have to be honest with ourselves and admit that certain dictators are our enemies.  I think that Hussein has provided ample evidence of that, and we still know nothing of classified information.

If we think there is hope for negotiating and dealing with a leader of a country, we try to do so.  That is evidenced by the fact that our country's first introduction to world leaders is typically not via a cruise missile. 

We are the United States of America.  Are we perfect?  No.  Should we conquer the earth?  Heavens no.  All need to remember that this is the only country in the world that does all of the following. 

1.  Allows you to write your own ticket to success.  If you are passionate about something, are good at it, and can find a market you can succeed.

2.  Allows you to pick any (or no) religion to follow.  I won't mention the gradually increasing Christian bashing (oops just did).

3.  Allows you to complain about the government without fear of being killed by the current regime. 

4.  Feeds the world.  We grow more food better than any other nation.

5.  Is the first on the scene of a natural disaster.  No matter how a nation has tinkled on us, we are always ready to help them in a natural disaster.

6.  Makes the most stuff the cleanest.  We also clean up our messes better than any.  Sorry, we are the most environmentally responsible nation on the earth.  All one must do is look at the toxic wasteland that is becoming the Three Gorges reservoir or the huge 'brown cloud of death' in China.  Heck, not even the praised EU comes close to the automotive emissions restrictions that we impose on ourselves.

7.  Gives the citizens the power to get together and change the government if they so decide.  The founding fathers knew they were imperfect, and left the means for future generations to fix their mistakes.  It also gives the citizens the choice to gradually give up their freedoms in exchange for a bigger, "kind benevolent" government.

8.  Is protected by a cannibalized, under-funded, under-appreciated military made completely of volunteers who understand the high price of freedom.  Even if the citizens they protect don't.

I quite vividly understand the greatness of this country.  Should it come down to a war, and my country asks me to serve, I will boldly go.  I would have no problem stepping into harms way so that my fellow countrymen can continue to worship (or ignore, their 1st amendment choice) God and spread the word of Jesus's gift.

I know there are peope out there in the "hate or blame America first crowd" that will denounce all that I say.  I don't agree with you, and I don't even understand you.  But I tell you this, I will protect with my dying breath your right to be of a different mindset, as ignorant as it may be. (I did not say stupid, I said ignorant as in not looking at all facts.)

[/getting off soapbox]

 

[MARANATHA2002]

Originally posted by Awake
Smilin, methinks you missed the point of my post.  Perhaps I should be a little more clear.

[gets on soapbox]

I in no way believe that we should conquer the world.  I likewise do not believe that we should try to appease the likes of Hussein.  Trying to be friends with him and dictators like him will only get you killed.  There comes a time when we have to be honest with ourselves and admit that certain dictators are our enemies.  I think that Hussein has provided ample evidence of that, and we still know nothing of classified information.

If we think there is hope for negotiating and dealing with a leader of a country, we try to do so.  That is evidenced by the fact that our country's first introduction to world leaders is typically not via a cruise missile. 

We are the United States of America.  Are we perfect?  No.  Should we conquer the earth?  Heavens no.  All need to remember that this is the only country in the world that does all of the following. 

1.  Allows you to write your own ticket to success.  If you are passionate about something, are good at it, and can find a market you can succeed.

2.  Allows you to pick any (or no) religion to follow.  I won't mention the gradually increasing Christian bashing (oops just did).

3.  Allows you to complain about the government without fear of being killed by the current regime. 

4.  Feeds the world.  We grow more food better than any other nation.

5.  Is the first on the scene of a natural disaster.  No matter how a nation has tinkled on us, we are always ready to help them in a natural disaster.

6.  Makes the most stuff the cleanest.  We also clean up our messes better than any.  Sorry, we are the most environmentally responsible nation on the earth.  All one must do is look at the toxic wasteland that is becoming the Three Gorges reservoir or the huge 'brown cloud of death' in China.  Heck, not even the praised EU comes close to the automotive emissions restrictions that we impose on ourselves.

7.  Gives the citizens the power to get together and change the government if they so decide.  The founding fathers knew they were imperfect, and left the means for future generations to fix their mistakes.  It also gives the citizens the choice to gradually give up their freedoms in exchange for a bigger, "kind benevolent" government.

8.  Is protected by a cannibalized, under-funded, under-appreciated military made completely of volunteers who understand the high price of freedom.  Even if the citizens they protect don't.

I quite vividly understand the greatness of this country.  Should it come down to a war, and my country asks me to serve, I will boldly go.  I would have no problem stepping into harms way so that my fellow countrymen can continue to worship (or ignore, their 1st amendment choice) God and spread the word of Jesus's gift.

I know there are peope out there in the "hate or blame America first crowd" that will denounce all that I say.  I don't agree with you, and I don't even understand you.  But I tell you this, I will protect with my dying breath your right to be of a different mindset, as ignorant as it may be. (I did not say stupid, I said ignorant as in not looking at all facts.)

[/getting off soapbox]

 

 

[kathaksung]

Originally posted by Cephalic Carnage
At this point I bet we could just about do it! We would lose a few cities and there would be tons of carnage. Most of our subjects...I mean citizens would feel oppressed for a while, but think of how it would improve our national security. And our trade relations. We wouldn't have to bend over for oil, and everyone would be free to be subjected to our theological pressures! Who's with me and W?

Do you think we will live a happy life since? I only see this will help Al Quada recruit more suicider soldiers. Is US the strongest power in World? Does US have the most military base all over the world? Did  that stop Embassy bombing in Africa, vessel Cole's bombing, and 911 attack? These are questions easy to answer.

It's almost one year after war started in Afghan. Where is Bin Laden? Al Quada is said being scattering all over the world. We have to follow government's warning from time to time that "Bombing is inevitable." War creats enemy and hostility. Why should this administration bring American people an unneccessary war for the interest of Israel.

 

 

[Warrior4Jah]

Oh please, as if you can justify not attacking Iraw by saying that China poses the same threat. That is just absurd, those countries have a lot to lose by going to war with the USA, Iraq doesnt. On top of that they have Saddam who could care less what he has to lose as long as US citizens are killed. Your arguemnt is absurd and makes no sense, come back when you get something taht works. Saddam is making weapons of mass destruction, or hes going to get them from Russian renegades. He signed a UN resolution clearly stating that he could no longer posess weapons of mass destruction. He signed that resolution after his defeat in the Gulf War. He is going to get the weapons and he is going to use them. Under the circumstances, there is no law forbidding the US to make an attack on Iraq. Which brings me to that. You cant condemn the US for wanting the FDA to sinpect plants in other countries! No one is perfect, France, Russia, Germany, Britian, theyve all failed to honor little treaties and international laws before but I dont complain about it and condemn them for it. There is a big difference between having illegal nuclear weapons and plant inspections.

There are no maybies, Saddam will get the weapons and he will use them on the US, we ahve evry right to attack and we will. Despite the aid and help the USA has provided to other countries throughout the years, it seems that when we finally need help we dont get it. We helped when it wasnt our problem, they should help us when it isnt ours.

 

[Job_38]

Originally posted by Sky
America does have executions against convicted murderers, that is wrong. America does have nukes and has not ruled out using them on Iraq or some other so-called "terrorist" nation. America has more WMD's than Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Al Qaeda put together. This country uses it's status as a superpower to bully other nations around and tell them how to run THEIR country. Bush supports the sensless killings of thousands of Iraqi's and a few American soldiers in his stupid war. Bush has detained thousands of foreingners and even some AMERICAN CITIZENS like Jose Padilla without due process, and without charging them with a crime. America has instituted it's spy program and other unconstitutional methods of homeland security. America is the real terrorist nation and Bush is the real terrorist leader, not iraq. America needs to completely reform it's government and dismantle it's WMD's, and it( the government) needs to stop killing people.

America is not the 'sweet land of liberty' that you think it is.

 

 I am in absolute agreement for the detaining of illegal combants being held. Why? Because they want to kill US. You, me, uncle Bob, us. And we are gonna keep em that way so they can't do that.

 You need to stop looking at things in a vacuum. If the case were nothing has happened and we have detained people, yeah we are wrong. but thats not the case. Those poor foreingers are terrorist. They do not deserve due prosses or have a right to it. Because it is reserved for Citezens of the state. INow, I m not sure on whether a citezen who is an enemy of the state such as Padilla get due proscess, but if he does deserve it, lets give it to him.

 

[Lacmeh]

Lol, I can´t condemn the USa for meddling into inner affairs of other nations and wanting to violate national sovereignity? That´s what the FDA does. Be aware, that in turn, the USA doesn´t allow foreign inspectors in their plants. That´s like a policement from Germany arresting someone in the USa for violating German law on US soil.
That is more than just plant inspections. It is the ignoring of basic treaties between the OECD nations. That means, that USA doesn´t believe, that any other nation than them are adhering to the OECD standards.
USa used nukes, chemical weapons on other nations. Supported the only nation using poison gas in a conflict since WW2. So pray tell me, what is the difference between USA and Iraq, conduct wise?
Please tell me when did the USA something completely unselfish? I can´t remember.

 

[Lacmeh]

Preemptive strikes are against innternational law. If one nation ignores international law, withotu penalties, then other nations may, too. Then civilisation ends.

 

[TheBear]

Hey, Gunny.

I love the pics! The pic of the gun-ship wins, hands down. I love that caption!


John

 

[strathyboy]

This thread represents the combination of good posts and rampant silliness that I've come to expect from any internet discussion that extends longer than 4 posts. Now I'll add to it by giving my thoughts on the issue...

First off, get off the soapbox Awake. Look at the world around you and recognize that the US is not the only nation that does most of what you said in that list. Canada, Britain, most of the EU, and many other nations on earth all offer most of the things you mentioned. Your list, and the fact that you seem to believe it, is part of the reason why many nations (ie. the EU) feel some resentment towards Americans.

Second, have any of you actually seen the proof that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? I've heard from many of you that "he is going to find a way to get them". Well I just might find a nuke too. Perhaps the CIA better kill me before I can use my newfound power. The only "proof" I have seen that Saddam is developing weapons of mass destruction is the word of the leaders of the US that such weapons are in the hands of Saddam, and on this issue, you will pardon me if I don't completely trust their neutrality. We have perhaps the proof by implication, since Saddam didn't let in weapons inspectors. This creates two separate problems. First, how does Bush then know Iraq has such weapons? Second, not allowing inspectors in does not necessarily mean Saddam has such weapons; it means only that he does not want foreign interference with his policies.

Third, I dislike statements like "you have to believe that Saddam should be removed from power". I don't have to believe anything. Whether I belive it or not is irrelevant, and to conclude things about me or others based solely on political views in one specific situation.

Lastly, as some have mentioned before, attacking a nation for something they might do must not become policy. If such became American policy, America should expect immediate reprisals from many other nations, since America is the most militarily powerful nation and who knows who they might go after next?

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Brimshack

…because anything and everything Clinton does is evil, naturally; if good Republicans do the same thig, it MUST be for the good of us all.

 

[Brimshack]

No message-board Akido for Gunnysgt; he's a straight up fist-to-cuffs man.

 

[Gerry]

On chemical weapons and genocide, it is of course standard U.S. policy to commit such attrocities by proxy,....

I LOVE this Brim. This is really good. I am doing a spot for a local radio station. May I use this?

 

[Gerry]

Originally posted by Brimshack
No message-board Akido for Gunnysgt; he's a straight up fist-to-cuffs man.

Take heart Brim. Gunny beat me far far worse than that. He takes no prisoners and what he takes he keeps.