Should the Ukrainian Orthodox Church gain autocephaly?

[Nik0s]

The recent conflict aside, it's clear that Ukraine and Russia both have their own national ans State identities. Greece, Cyprus and the EP all share a common history language and culture, but Greece and Cyprus are autocephalus churches. I think the time is right for the UOC to be granted autocephaly. This would also bring the schismatic "Kiev patriarchate" back into communion with world Orthodoxy. (or rather "should" bring it back into communion.)

 

[ArmyMatt]

we shall see, it would be nice as a way to bring the schismatics back home, that is for sure

 

[E.C.]

In all honesty, speaking as one who is a bit ignorant of the culture of both peoples, I don't see why there shouldn't be a Kiev Patriarch for Ukraine.

However, the problem that we face today is that the "Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kiev Patriarchate" is basically founded by a group of nationalists who jumped the gun and couldn't wait for the air to settle after Communism fell. I sometimes wonder if the schismatics had simply waited a bit, couldn't they have been an autocephalous body of Orthodoxy today?

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

In all honesty, speaking as one who is a bit ignorant of the culture of both peoples, I don't see why there shouldn't be a Kiev Patriarch for Ukraine.

However, the problem that we face today is that the "Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kiev Patriarchate" is basically founded by a group of nationalists who jumped the gun and couldn't wait for the air to settle after Communism fell. I sometimes wonder if the schismatics had simply waited a bit, couldn't they have been an autocephalous body of Orthodoxy today?

Russian patriarchate claim to be the same as the successor of the bishops of Kiev where the russ converted to christianity, when Kiev was invaded the see was then moved to Moscow.

Almost the same as the Pope in Avignon, as the bishop of Rome.

 

[Anhelyna]

Alonso - this is a matter for Orthodox posters . It should not concern you.

Despite it being Church related it is however political - Church Politics

 

[Anhelyna]

In all honesty, speaking as one who is a bit ignorant of the culture of both peoples, I don't see why there shouldn't be a Kiev Patriarch for Ukraine.

However, the problem that we face today is that the "Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kiev Patriarchate" is basically founded by a group of nationalists who jumped the gun and couldn't wait for the air to settle after Communism fell. I sometimes wonder if the schismatics had simply waited a bit, couldn't they have been an autocephalous body of Orthodoxy today?

EC - the really interesting fact that's emerging now is that in many UOC -MP Churches Patriarch Kirill is not commemorated.
Yes the whole situation is rather messy at present

 

[Nik0s]

In all honesty, speaking as one who is a bit ignorant of the culture of both peoples, I don't see why there shouldn't be a Kiev Patriarch for Ukraine.

However, the problem that we face today is that the "Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kiev Patriarchate" is basically founded by a group of nationalists who jumped the gun and couldn't wait for the air to settle after Communism fell. I sometimes wonder if the schismatics had simply waited a bit, couldn't they have been an autocephalous body of Orthodoxy today?

Agreed 100%. The same can also be said about the so called "Macedonian Orthodox Church" in the FYROM

 

[buzuxi02]

Russian patriarchate claim to be the same as the successor of the bishops of Kiev where the russ converted to christianity, when Kiev was invaded the see was then moved to Moscow.

Almost the same as the Pope in Avignon, as the bishop of Rome.

Alonzo, This maybe one time where I am in partial agreement with you. Regardless of the actual historical account the Moscow Patriarchate is the Kievan one.

The Ukranians should have their own autocephalous church, but the president of such a synod should not be granted title of patriarch. This title has been given out so much that its pretty much meaningless, but it still makes no sense.

When the Church of Greece gained autocephaly in the 1850's, her archbishop never fathomed of being labeled a patriarch. The greeks knew that their patriarch resides in Constantinople. The presiding heirarch of Greece is styled Archbishop of Athens and all of Greece.

The title of patriarch presupposes an expanded jurisdiction not usually tied to immediate political/national borders and the seat of the episcopacy is a common center of activity of that expanded jurisdiction.

 

[Nik0s]

I agree, I don't think the head of the autocephalous Ukrainian Church needs to be styled a Patriarch.