Should the books of the bible been more like 77?

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,038
7,664
.
Visit site
✟1,056,435.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.
 

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,786
114,476
✟1,339,865.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.
A question came to mind as i read your OP. Actually several questions came to mind, but i'll just ask this one:

Are you aware the the "book of enoch" is a pseudepigrapha writing, or series of writings?

"Pseudepigrapha" comes from Greek words meaning false writings (pseudo=false and epigraphe=to inscribe) and refers to works that attempt to create Scripture under false names.

In addition it is Gnostic.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,038
7,664
.
Visit site
✟1,056,435.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
A question came to mind as i read your OP. Actually several questions came to mind, but i'll just ask this one:

Are you aware the the "book of enoch" is a pseudepigrapha writing, or series of writings?

"Pseudepigrapha" comes from Greek words meaning false writings (pseudo=false and epigraphe=to inscribe) and refers to works that attempt to create Scripture under false names.

In addition it is Gnostic.
But... James quotes out of the book of Enoch, “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,” - Jude 1:14

In which quoting from the Book of Enoch... “And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly:” - Enoch 1:9
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,038
7,664
.
Visit site
✟1,056,435.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer, - 1 Chronicles 29:29

And a book of Nathan the Prophet
And a book of Gad the Seer
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
But... James quotes out of the book of Enoch,
And Paul quotes from a pagan Greek philosopher.

Acts 17:28
for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.”
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,786
114,476
✟1,339,865.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
But... James quotes out of the book of Enoch, “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,” - James 1:14

In which quoting from the Book of Enoch... “And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly:” - Enoch 1:9
The tradition of word-of-mouth, in handing down to generations what was said by forefathers is what is being referred to. It has nothing to do with the "book of enoch" which, amongst other things, teaches that the living God is "evil".

This comes to mind:

iu
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,038
7,664
.
Visit site
✟1,056,435.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
I rate everyone's post informative. I would think it interesting if we someone would ever find some of the lost books. In Kings we have three series...

1. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah - Which we call Chronicles
2. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel and Judah - Which we call Kings
3. The Book of the Kings of Israel - Which is lost

And other books as well such as Nathan the Prophet and Gad the Seer. And I would look for a few more written by the Apostle Paul...

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3:15-16
 
  • Like
Reactions: public hermit
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Supporter
May 15, 2008
9,486
3,322
✟858,457.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.
are you saying because of the biblical reference they should be implicitly inspired works? I would say yes to Paul's lost letters. Not because they are written by Paul (although that is important) but because when he writes them he writes them in the role and office as an apostle which would be under the influence of the Holy Spirit thus inspired. This would be the same for any of the apostles operating in the same role. With Samuel and Nathan the same applies. If they wrote these books under the office of a prophet of God then they are inspired.

With regards to Enoch, I don't see Jude citing the entire works of Enoch as inspired and it is unclear how much of Enoch he would affirm, all we can do is affirm the quoted portions. Since we know Enoch is a pseudepigraphical work the office it operates under, if any, is false and this would not only mean it wouldn't be implicitly inspired, Like Paul, Samuel and Nathan, but its deceptive authorship removes itself out of inspired works IMO. Jude also quotes from another lost text regarding a quarrel with Michael and Satan about Moses' body... some say it is in a text called the assumption of Moses (a 1st-century pseudepigraphical work) perhaps Jude's audience is Hellenic and he was using these passages contextually because they were popular at the time. Jude himself may have been deceived about the authenticity of these texts too but him using them doesn't make his words any less inspired. Paul quotes pagan philosophers to point to God so there are redemptive analogies that can be pulled out of un-inspired works.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Silverback

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2019
1,306
853
61
South East
✟66,756.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.

I would say no, I think the cannon of scripture is closed. The fact that other books are mentioned, does not make them inspired.

The 66 books of the old, and new testament contain everything we need to know about God, his nature, his great love and mercy, and our relationship to him...it's complete, nothing more is needed.

It has always been popular for people who don't like what the bible says, to cast doubt about the bibles inspiration, it's completeness, translation, and it's message.
 
Upvote 0

jahel

returned to old acct
Nov 18, 2019
616
248
Vancouver
✟26,770.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I must say here that I have no problem with the 66 book Bible and read mine all the time. I just wonder, though, if there were other books that could have been included.
I suppose that if they are experientially significant then anything can be inclusive, but I find the standard sufficient in the 66 books that are there. Spiritually speaking of course, but of course I have not read the disputed books either as authoritative. It’s like keeping secular and spiritual music separated for when thoughts come up. Most songs talk to the heart when brought to mind but circumstances always surround them.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,786
114,476
✟1,339,865.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
I must say here that I have no problem with the 66 book Bible and read mine all the time. I just wonder, though, if there were other books that could have been included.
Why would you want for instance, the "book of enoch" included in God's Word, after it was already presented that it is a false "pseudepigrapha" writing, and at the very least, Gnostic, and teaches that the living God is "evil", for instance?
 
Upvote 0

jahel

returned to old acct
Nov 18, 2019
616
248
Vancouver
✟26,770.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why would you want for instance, the "book of enoch" included in God's Word, after it was already presented that it is a false "pseudepigrapha" writing, and at the very least, Gnostic, and teaches that the living God is "evil", for instance?
There’s no harm in Enoch or Little Red Riding Hood but as supplement imo. More filling to a meal that is clean. Some flavours go with what is being served.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,786
114,476
✟1,339,865.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
There’s no harm in Enoch or Little Red Riding Hood but as supplement imo. More filling to a meal that is clean. Some flavours go with what is being served.
Yes, the issue was "adding" them to God's Word. It's not necessarily about the "book of enoch" or any of the other pseudepigraphical, heretical writings, per se.
 
Upvote 0

Josheb

Christian
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,172
830
NoVa
✟160,065.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If there were 77 books of the bible they may have included....

1. The Book of Enoch - Bible Gateway passage: Jude 14 - King James Version
2. Chronicles of the Kings of Israel - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Kings 16:5 - King James Version
3. The book of Samuel the Seer - Bible Gateway passage: 1 Chronicles 29:29 - King James Version
4. The book of Nathan the Prophet - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 9:29 - King James Version
5. The Gospel according to Thomas
6. Other epistles of Paul as he once said, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" - 1 Corinthians 5:9 Indicating, that he had written other epistles that did not make it into the Bible.
No.

There are reasons why those books are not included in the canon, ranging from their containing content irreconcilably contrary to the whole of scripture to having been written long after the period of time to which they speak.

The two or three letter to Corinth we're missing are probably among other missing texts but asking "What's missing?" is fundamentally different than asking, "Should X be included?" I'm missing a few pages from the repair manual to my Ford F-150. I could stick in a few pages from the repair manual on my 1965 Corvair, but that won't help. Might even (probably) muck things up.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jahel
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,333.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I rate everyone's post informative. I would think it interesting if we someone would ever find some of the lost books. In Kings we have three series...

1. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah - Which we call Chronicles
2. The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel and Judah - Which we call Kings
3. The Book of the Kings of Israel - Which is lost

And other books as well such as Nathan the Prophet and Gad the Seer. And I would look for a few more written by the Apostle Paul...

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3:15-16
Who knows what is contained in the sealed archives of the Vatican?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Lost4words
Upvote 0