Should the Ayatollahs be targeted?

[grasping the after wind]

We cannot have a democracy in a society where general population is uneducated and unable to make wise and moral decisions. South America, Africa, muslim countries.

Powerful (not too cruel) monarch who is trained and educated for such position seems to be a better choice for such population.

Not to me it doesn't. Who trains and educates this monarch? How does one assure this monarch is not too cruel? How is this monarch placed into power? Who qualifies for making the judgment that a population is unable to make wise and moral decisions?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

A technicality. But at least they have a say. At least, they have a choice (free will)to be deceived. I'll leave your with your opinion and stick to mine.

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”

― Joseph Stalin (attributed)

 

[mukk_in]

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”

― Joseph Stalin (attributed)

I'm no fan of Stalin...lol. I will disagree with your premise and you're entitled to your opinion. Peace in Christ.

 

[trophy33]

Not to me it doesn't. Who trains and educates this monarch? How does one assure this monarch is not too cruel? How is this monarch placed into power? Who qualifies for making the judgment that a population is unable to make wise and moral decisions?

In the end, God (R 13:1).

In specific situtation, the answer will vary. It may be aristocracy, royal teachers, royal family...

Population that is on the level of tribal worldview will never have a working democracy. Because democracy says "all are equal", tribal worldview says "my tribe is above other tribes, my family is above other families" etc.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I'm no fan of Stalin...lol. I will disagree with your premise and you're entitled to your opinion

Not a fan either, but he is very quotable guy.

 

[timewerx]

A technicality. But at least they have a say. At least, they have a choice (free will) to be deceived as opposed to being denied any say. I'll have to disagree with you and will leave you with your opinion.

You don't have free will if you don't have enough information nor the right ones to make the right choice.

This is why Jesus said, "The Truth will set you Free".

Until you have found the truth, and living in truth, you have no free will.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

You don't have free will if you don't have enough information nor the right ones to make the right choice.

You do have a free will to vote as you see fit. Whatever that decision is in any way smart, informed or moral is another issue.

 

[DanishLutheran]

I presume the country would take the easy second place.

"A thief thinks everyone steals"
- Danish proverb.

You know Trump very badly if you think that what you describe above is going to make him do as you think.

 

[mukk_in]

You do have a free will to vote as you see fit. Whatever that decision is in any way smart, informed or moral is another issue.

Exactly. I made that point in the previous responses. I never enjoyed Stalin's quotes...lol. Thanks for debating.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I can see that as more of uneducated democracy. Most of the people voting do not really research things or people they vote to power.

The system is rigged so poor choices are always on the ballot and surprisingly people don't leave the polling station to riot. so it goes. has nothing to do with education.

 

[grasping the after wind]

For most countries, democracy is just a formality. It doesn't really exist.

If only those with most money and power/influence/connections gets their agenda done, that's not democracy.

If more qualified people or ideas doesn't get done because of lack of money/influence/connections, that's not democracy.

Tyranny / dictatorship has many forms, not just one.

What makes an idea more qualified?

If the majority of people in a society agree with the agenda of the people with the most money/power/ influence/connections how is having that agenda get done not democracy?

Have you ever noticed that the people with the most money/power/influence/connections do not all agree with each other or have the same agenda? Bernie sanders and Donald Trump don't share the same vision nor do George Soros and the Koch Brothers. Democrat and Republican politicians don't see things the same way. All of them are swimming in money/ power/ influence and connections yet they don't see eye to eye. In the end they cannot force people to vote the way they want them to and they are not capable of causing or enforcing indifference and ignorance upon people. Being informed and interested is the responsibility of the individual citizen. If that citizen chooses to be uninformed and indifferent that is not the fault of the system.

 

[DanishLutheran]

You do have a free will to vote as you see fit. Whatever that decision is in any way smart, informed or moral is another issue.

Indeed, as we've seen people elect people in Germany, Turkey, France, Sweden, and now also Denmark, who really should be kept as far away from power as possible. But that's the inherent risk of democracy: Sometimes people make the wrong decision.

 

[grasping the after wind]

In the end, God (R 13:1).

In specific situtation, the answer will vary. It may be aristocracy, royal teachers, royal family...

Population that is on the level of tribal worldview will never have a working democracy. Because democracy says "all are equal", tribal worldview says "my tribe is above other tribes, my family is above other families" etc.

Since when does democracy say all are equal? It only says all have equal say. Aren't you being tribal in saying your ideas , that have been instilled in you by those you associate with, about who is qualified to have democracy are above the ideas of others? Democracy itself is tribal in that there are at least two sides on every issue and each of those sides will cling to the belief that their side of the issue is above the other side's.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

You know Trump very badly if you think that what you describe above is going to make him do as you think

We have all the cases if his abusing his position from Melanie advertising her jewelry business on government sites , foreign diplomats staying in Trump hotels and him gettin huge tax cuts for the rich (including himself and his family) so it should probably be easy for you to show few cases where he went against his own financial interests to promote those of his country ?

 

[timewerx]

What makes an idea more qualified?

If the majority of people in a society agree with the agenda of the people with the most money/power/ influence/connections how is having that agenda get done not democracy?

Have you ever noticed that the people with the most money/power/influence/connections do not all agree with each other or have the same agenda? Bernie sanders and Donald Trump don't share the same vision nor do George Soros and the Koch Brothers. Democrat and Republican politicians don't see things the same way. All of them are swimming in money/ power/ influence and connections yet they don't see eye to eye. In the end they cannot force people to vote the way they want them to and they are not capable of causing or enforcing indifference and ignorance upon people. Being informed and interested is the responsibility of the individual citizen. If that citizen chooses to be uninformed and indifferent that is not the fault of the system.

In the Bible, in the New Testament, it is clearly said that the rich is more likely to be evil than the poor and the rich are the oppressors.

I'm not saying all of them are bad. But to take chance with them, the chances won't be ideal.

If choices are limited, it's not free will.

Has USA ever had a good President in the last few decades? If Trump didn't win, we'll have Hillary and they both support a regime high on human rights abuses and have links to terrorism against USA - Saudi Arabia.

Basically, you're simply choosing the "lesser evil" and that's not free will but deception.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Indeed, as we've seen people elect people in Germany, Turkey, France, Sweden, and now also Denmark, who really should be kept as far away from power as possible. But that's the inherent risk of democracy: Sometimes people make the wrong decision.

To compound this effect, choosing the lesser of two evils for generations results in a greater evil taking hold.

 

[DanishLutheran]

To compound this effect, choosing the lesser of two evils for generations results in a greater evil taking hold.

That's often what happens in democracies: All choices are bad, some are just less bad than others.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That's often what happens in democracies: All choices are bad, some are just less bad than others.

So mathematically, humanity is doomed.

 

[timewerx]

To compound this effect, choosing the lesser of two evils for generations results in a greater evil taking hold.

Mass deception is built upon investing in time. Adding falsehoods little by little as years go by as people accept them as part of life.

 

[DanishLutheran]

So mathematically, humanity is doomed.

Either that, or the West will see a reaction in the coming decades to bring back sanity and morality.
The fact that large parts of Europe are starting to rise up, slowly but surely, could hint at this.
Macron certainly heard the people sing, and patriots generally got good elections in the recent election to the European Parliament.

The future is difficult to tell, and I'm a sceptic. But it's not completely hopeless. There's still a chance.