Should SDA's attend synagogue on Shabbat if early Jewish believers did?

bekkilyn

Contemplative Christian
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2017
7,612
8,475
USA
✟677,608.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Others
It's been at least a couple of years now that I've been involved in various "sabbath" arguments here on CF and yet I'm still waiting for someone to point out the exact verse in the NT that Gentile Christians are *specifically* commanded to observe the seventh day sabbath. I'm still not able to find the verse anywhere in any bible that I own, and I have a fairly large library of different versions and translations. :)

What I have of course seen is excruciatingly long posts filled with bible quotes that have absolutely nothing to do with what I've asked for, as if those somehow explain everything!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,773
5,636
Utah
✟719,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
There are two Laws - the written Law (Sinai) and the Law of the Spirit promised to indwell believers (Jer 32:40)

Some folks make much of keeping the Written Law as if it was still alive.

Jesus fulfilled that written code and replaced it with the Law of the Spirit which is in fact more exacting as it is a dynamic Law within, directly from His Voice. Following His Voice is much more demanding than complying by a written code that never was able to specify righteous responses in every given circumstance.

The Law of the spirit is also so exacting that obedience requires more than right action - it requires right attitude as well. We are in fact told that any action not motivated by the Love of Jesus is worthless.

So folks that push the obedience to the written Law are robbing believers of walking in the New Covenant Law of the Spirit.

Have you pondered on how God felt grabbing the Temple curtain and ripping it apart from the top. It is finished... The new has come.

He desecrated the temple, removed it's authority, replace the written Law with His own voice.

Now this raises a very important issue - for the believer, hearing God as we walk with Him should be normative. Without this dynamic Word inside of us we walk as those who do what is right in their own eyes.

There is nothing new in this...

1The king’s heart is a waterway in the hand of the LORD; He directs it where He pleases. 2All a man’s ways seem right to him, but the LORD weighs the heart.3To do righteousness and justice is more desirable to the LORD than sacrifice.… Prov:21

This truth was understood by the Prophets of old who walked according to the Word being personally spoken to them.

Is not our Covenant even more Glorious than the revelation they walked in? For in this day His spirit is poured out on all flesh.

I hate the thought of brothers and sisters being robbed of walking with Jesus in a dynamic loving relationship - Robbed by those making an idol from a written law replaced by His Voice and His Love.

The Law of the spirit is also so exacting that obedience requires more than right action - it requires right attitude as well. We are in fact told that any action not motivated by the Love of Jesus is worthless.

Obedience to what?

What is the difference between the Spirit of the Law and the Letter of the Law?

Have you pondered on how God felt grabbing the Temple curtain and ripping it apart from the top. It is finished... The new has come.

sure ... have studied it. It is finished (everything needed done on earth by Jesus had been accomplished) to provide the way of salvation through Him.

The curtain was torn because the earthly temple system was no longer needed.
Jesus was the final sacrifice for all for all time .... Jesus is our High Priest. Jesus now ministers from the REAL sanctuary in heaven.

The purpose of the earthly sanctuary system was pointing to the Messiah to come (Jesus) and the plan of salvation through Him ... the earthly temple system was a pattern of the heavenly sanctuary. The earthly sanctuary system had no redeeming quality in it. The blood of bulls and goats can not atone for sin.

and I agree the Lord weighs the heart .... what is written on the heart/mind?

Hebrews 10:16

New Living Translation
“This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,773
5,636
Utah
✟719,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
When the New Testament mentions keeping the commandments, it’s NOT the Decalogue that is meant, but the TWO love commands:


The scripture makes it clear, that love fulfills the law of God.


Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe FULFILLING OF THE LAW.


And this:

Mat 22:36 Master, which isthe great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second islike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.


One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor.


If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.


Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.


On the contrary, it should be obvious that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc.


Paul says exactly the same thing:


Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe fulfilling of the law.


And if you love God with all your heart, you won’t take His name in vain, or worship idols.


Another fallacious argument: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday, he’d be preaching to empty seats.


The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, it was on the first day of the week:


Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.


The reason they were free to select Sunday to assemble together, is because there is no requirement to keep any days at all, in the two commandments.


Two scriptures cut to the chase about not having to keep the 7th day sabbath:


Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Gal 4:10 Ye observe DAYS, and months, and times, and years.

Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


“Sabbaths, new moons, and set feasts” (1Ch 23:31; 2Ch 31:3), answer to “days, months, times.”


Look at 1 Chronicles 23:31


1 Chronicles 23:31 (KJV)

31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the SABBATHS, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:


The word sabbaths is word H7676 in Hebrew:


H7676 (Strong)

שַׁבָּת

shabbâth

shab-bawth'

Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

Total KJV occurrences: 111


Thus Galatians 4:9-11 is talking about sabbaths that includes the weekly sabbaths.


Next:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body isof Christ.


The word sabbath above, is H4521 in Strongs:


G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY reposefrom secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - SABBATH (DAY), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68


Colossians 2:16-17 states to let no one judge you for not keeping the sabbath day, because it’s a shadow of Jesus, (who’s the real rest for us Matthew 11:28-29 - every day we rest in Him, and no longer on a ceremonial day).


Sabbath day keepers are therefore shadow keepers.


If Jesus had not kept the 7th day Sabbath would it had been a sin?
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,731
10,038
78
Auckland
✟379,527.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Obedience to what?

What is the difference between the Spirit of the Law and the Letter of the Law?

The Law of the Spirit - You misquoted.

This is most certainly not the Spirit of the law.

See the two laws here...

Rom 8

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,731
10,038
78
Auckland
✟379,527.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Law of the Spirit - You misquoted.

This is most certainly not the Spirit of the law.

See the two laws here...

Rom 8

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Please note - one is a Word of life, the other is a word of death.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,731
10,038
78
Auckland
✟379,527.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If Jesus had not kept the 7th day Sabbath would it had been a sin?

I think that is a good question - as Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man - the intension was for blessing, not for rules.

He did not break the intent, but He did break mans rules around it.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,773
5,636
Utah
✟719,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
When the New Testament mentions keeping the commandments, it’s NOT the Decalogue that is meant, but the TWO love commands:


The scripture makes it clear, that love fulfills the law of God.


Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe FULFILLING OF THE LAW.


And this:

Mat 22:36 Master, which isthe great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second islike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.


One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor.


If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.


Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.


On the contrary, it should be obvious that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc.


Paul says exactly the same thing:


Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe fulfilling of the law.


And if you love God with all your heart, you won’t take His name in vain, or worship idols.


Another fallacious argument: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday, he’d be preaching to empty seats.


The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, it was on the first day of the week:


Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.


The reason they were free to select Sunday to assemble together, is because there is no requirement to keep any days at all, in the two commandments.


Two scriptures cut to the chase about not having to keep the 7th day sabbath:


Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Gal 4:10 Ye observe DAYS, and months, and times, and years.

Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


“Sabbaths, new moons, and set feasts” (1Ch 23:31; 2Ch 31:3), answer to “days, months, times.”


Look at 1 Chronicles 23:31


1 Chronicles 23:31 (KJV)

31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the SABBATHS, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:


The word sabbaths is word H7676 in Hebrew:


H7676 (Strong)

שַׁבָּת

shabbâth

shab-bawth'

Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

Total KJV occurrences: 111


Thus Galatians 4:9-11 is talking about sabbaths that includes the weekly sabbaths.


Next:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body isof Christ.


The word sabbath above, is H4521 in Strongs:


G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY reposefrom secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - SABBATH (DAY), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68


Colossians 2:16-17 states to let no one judge you for not keeping the sabbath day, because it’s a shadow of Jesus, (who’s the real rest for us Matthew 11:28-29 - every day we rest in Him, and no longer on a ceremonial day).


Sabbath day keepers are therefore shadow keepers.

Were Jesus and the apostles "shadow keepers" ?

Paul explains what it means to keep the Spirit of the law, which is love.

If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law. For the commandments say, “You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet.” These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law. Romans 13:8-10 NLT

Love does not do away with the commandments. It is because we love God and others that we keep the commandments. I can’t say I love my neighbor if I lie about her and steal from her. Love fulfills the Spirit of the law, which is love and consideration for God and others, while a sense of self preservation and selfishness fulfills only the letter of the law.

Hebrews 10:16

New King James Version
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”
 
  • Winner
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

GraceBro

Eternally Forgiven, Alive, and Secure.
Dec 24, 2017
702
588
Central Coast
Visit site
✟102,774.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Our SDA friends believe we should still keep the Law and therefore the Sabbath on the seventh day. This seems to be from biblical record that the early Jewish believers attended synagogue as was their custom.

The question is did they attend to keep the Law, or to be a light among the Jews.

Also is there any evidence of early believing Gentiles attending synagogue after conversion...

Did Josephus or other early writers comment on this??

Lastly, if Jews today are keeping the Law and are guardians of the Law, why dont the SDA's join them???

I hope we have have a warm and respectful discussion.
Nobody is keeping the entire law, SDA, or otherwise. I believe the examples of the early church keeping the Sabbath and attending synagogue is because of their immaturity in the faith. A poor understanding of the New Covenant.

I don't believe they intended to be a light to the Jews, but to add Jesus to their Judaism.

The apostle Paul commented on it in his letters as well as the author of Hebrews.

Most Jews today, from my understanding, are secular. There may be some strict sects trying to obey it, but not the majority of Jews.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: bekkilyn
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,773
5,636
Utah
✟719,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The Law of the Spirit - You misquoted.

This is most certainly not the Spirit of the law.

See the two laws here...

Rom 8

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Paul assures the Christian that there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. . . For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death (Rom. 8:1-2, NKJV). If we read these verses apart from their immediate context, it would appear that Paul was referring to two opposing laws: the law of life and the law of sin and death. However, the difference is not with the law but with the individual before and after he or she receives Christ.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Were Jesus and the apostles "shadow keepers" ?

Paul explains what it means to keep the Spirit of the law, which is love.

If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law. For the commandments say, “You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet.” These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law. Romans 13:8-10 NLT

Love does not do away with the commandments. It is because we love God and others that we keep the commandments. I can’t say I love my neighbor if I lie about her and steal from her. Love fulfills the Spirit of the law, which is love and consideration for God and others, while a sense of self preservation and selfishness fulfills only the letter of the law.

Hebrews 10:16

New King James Version
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”
That’s because the new covenant is of the spirit, and not of the old letter.
The reason the Decalogue (Ten Commands) are no longer in effect, but have ended, is found in 2 Corinthians chapter three, wherein we find that the Ten Commands are: the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION which is contrasted with the new covenant (testament) of the spirit, that gives life.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written andengraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be done away:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation beglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY wasglorious, much more that which remaineth isglorious.


The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.


The penalty for homicide - being put to death:

Exo 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.


The penalty for not honoring your mother and father: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put todeath: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him.


The penalty for adultery: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with anotherman's wife, even hethat committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


The penalty for breaking the sabbath by doing any work, such as picking up sticks for kindling: put to death by stoning:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it isholy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth anywork therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect, thus those who insist on keeping the ended covenant that contained the Ten Commands, are breaking the law themselves, by not stoning to death those who break the commands.


You can't have one without the other.

Imagine you were doing a ride along with a police officer, and you see that he ignores traffic law violations: speeding, running red lights, reckless driving, drunk driving, etc.


During the conversation you have with the officer, he says, "yes, I believe in the traffic laws. I keep those laws, myself - I just don't enforce them".


Sabbath day keepers, and Ten Commandment keepers are saying, those commands are still in effect and we keep them, but we don't enforce the law, as is required BY the law.


The ten commands ended when the old covenant ended, because the ten are called “the covenant on two tables of stone” in scripture - thus when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended with it - including the fourth command.


Deu 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, thatthe LORD gave me the two tables of stone, eventhe tables of the covenant.


Invariably some people will claim that the new covenant is simply the old covenant restated, but that argument won’t hold water.


Scripture says the new covenant is a BETTER covenant, founded on BETTER PROMISES - not the old one recycled.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER covenant, which was established upon better promises.


And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.


Heb 8:7 For if that first covenanthad been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


The truth of the matter is, God rested on the seventh day one time only - not weekly - but did not command anyone else to keep a seventh day sabbath at that time.


You won’t find the word sabbath anywhere in Genesis, nor find Abraham or anyone else in Genesis resting on the 7th day - because there was no such command until God gave it to Israel as a covenant sign of His freeing them from slavery in Egypt, after their Exodus.


Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, until God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US evenus, who areall of us here alive THIS day.


And God says why and to who, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:


Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.


The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for itisa SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that yemay know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.


God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.


God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:


Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.


Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.


Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.


And in Galatians ch 4, Paul contrasts the two covenants, calling the one from Mount SINAI bondage.


Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?


Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.


Gal 4:23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.


Gal 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount SINAI, bearing children for SLAVERY; she is Hagar.


Gal 4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the PRESENT JERUSALEM for she is in slavery with her children.


Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem ABOVE is free, and SHE is our mother.


Gal 4:27 For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.”


Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.


Gal 4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.


Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”


Gal 4:31 So, brothers, we are not children of the SLAVE but of the free woman.


The old covenant from Mount Sinai represents bondage, but we are under the new covenant, wrote Paul.

The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.


The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.


When the New Testament mentions keeping the commandments, it’s NOT the Decalogue that is meant, but the TWO love commands:


The scripture makes it clear, that love fulfills the law of God.


Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe FULFILLING OF THE LAW.


And this:

Mat 22:36 Master, which isthe great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second islike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.


One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor.


If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.


Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.


On the contrary, it should be obvious that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc.


Paul says exactly the same thing:


Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe fulfilling of the law.


And if you love God with all your heart, you won’t take His name in vain, or worship idols.


Another fallacious argument: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday, he’d be preaching to empty seats.


The fact is, when the apostles assembled together for church, it was on the first day of the week:


Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first dayof the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace beunto you.


The reason they were free to select Sunday to assemble together, is because there is no requirement to keep any days at all, in the two commandments.


Two scriptures cut to the chase about not having to keep the 7th day sabbath:


Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Gal 4:10 Ye observe DAYS, and months, and times, and years.

Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


“Sabbaths, new moons, and set feasts” (1Ch 23:31; 2Ch 31:3), answer to “days, months, times.”


Look at 1 Chronicles 23:31


1 Chronicles 23:31 (KJV)

31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the SABBATHS, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:


The word sabbaths is word H7676 in Hebrew:


H7676 (Strong)

שַׁבָּת

shabbâth

shab-bawth'

Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

Total KJV occurrences: 111


Thus Galatians 4:9-11 is talking about sabbaths that includes the weekly sabbaths.


Next:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body isof Christ.


The word sabbath above, is H4521 in Strongs:


G4521 (Strong)

σάββατον

sabbaton

sab'-bat-on

Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath(that is, Shabbath), or day of WEEKLY reposefrom secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - SABBATH (DAY), week.

Total KJV occurrences: 68


Colossians 2:16-17 states to let no one judge you for not keeping the sabbath day, because it’s a shadow of Jesus, (who’s the real rest for us Matthew 11:28-29 - every day we rest in Him, and no longer on a ceremonial day).


Sabbath day keepers are therefore shadow keepers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Carl Emerson
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,731
10,038
78
Auckland
✟379,527.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Paul assures the Christian that there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. . . For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death (Rom. 8:1-2, NKJV). If we read these verses apart from their immediate context, it would appear that Paul was referring to two opposing laws: the law of life and the law of sin and death. However, the difference is not with the law but with the individual before and after he or she receives Christ.

This is not correct - Paul was rebuking believers in Gal 3 not unbelievers.

They had become captive to a legalistic spirit and this is what this thread is all about.
 
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If Jesus had not kept the 7th day Sabbath would it had been a sin?
Jesus of course kept the sabbath, since the old covenant was in effect until He died.
Not only that, had He attended synagogue on Sunday, He would have been by Himself, since every Jew went on Saturday, per the covenant that existed at that time.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,773
5,636
Utah
✟719,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I think that is a good question - as Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man - the intension was for blessing, not for rules.

He did not break the intent, but He did break mans rules around it.

It is true ... man (the clergy of the time) had added their own rules regarding the 7th day sabbath ... and yes Jesus pointed that out to them. And by them doing so, they were changing ... adding to His law (the 4th within the 10).

All of His law IS a blessing ... because without law there is lawlessness.

He did not break the intent ....

What is the "intent" of the law (the 10) ?
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
14,731
10,038
78
Auckland
✟379,527.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Nobody is keeping the entire law, SDA, or otherwise. I believe the examples of the early church keeping the Sabbath and attending synagogue is because of their immaturity in the faith, A poor understanding of the New Covenant.

I don't believe they intended to be a light to the Jews, but to add Jesus to their Judaism.

The apostle Paul commented on it in his letters as well as the author of Hebrews.

Most Jews today, from my understanding, are secular. There may be some strict sects trying to obey it, but not the majority of Jews.

I mentioned on another thread having rocks thrown at me in the Jewish quarter of Jerusalem for carrying a bag on the Sabbath. Sabbath keepers are very much alive and well in Israel.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums