Should SDA's attend synagogue on Shabbat if early Jewish believers did?

HIM

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Something to think on. When Sabbath was instituted the Israelites were instructed to stay in their dwellings.
Exod 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Home Church.....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Something to think on. When Sabbath was instituted the Israelites were instructed to stay in their dwellings.
Exod 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Home Church.....

Context show that was in relation to collecting manner on the Sabbath *see Exodus 16:4-29. JESUS and the Apostles went to Church on the Sabbath but I am sure there are lots of home church's as well.
 
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HIM

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No is old covenant commandments...whatever commandments Jesus spoke and the apostles are New covenant commandments...even if it also found in old covenant.
Hi how are you? You are mistaken my friend. Jesus kept the Sabbath and spoke of it often. And The Sabbath is mentioned here in Hebrews as something Christians do if they have entered into the Rest of the Gospel.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath Keeping to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Two things mentioned here. We that enter into the rest which is the Gospel ALSO cease from our works AS GOD did. The word "ALSO" means in addition to. So two things my friend. The Rest which is the Gospel and a ceasing from work as GOD did from His if we enter into the Rest which is the Gospel. The word "as" denotes a direct comparison. That direct comparison is to the ceasing from work like GOD did.
 
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HIM

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Context show that was in relation to collecting manner on the Sabbath *see Exodus 16:4-29. JESUS and the Apostles went to Church on the Sabbath but I am sure there are lots of home church's as well.
Regardless it is stated. I am not pushing anything. It is only mentioned as something to be considered.
However, church is work for many leading out and attending, not as restful as staying at home. Especially for those who lead out. We are counseled to collect Manna, the Word all week and a double portion on the Preparation Day. Many are leaving their dwellings on the Sabbath to collect more Manna.

Oh btw sorry for not greeting you. Hi and I pray That you have many blessings this Sabbath in the Lord.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I posted earlier, that we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *PHILIPPIANS 2:13 as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. These are God's Word not mine. Now what is it from the above you do not believe?

You missed the point entirely.

That fact that you use scripture to justify your position does not mean you are free from 'spin'.

Jesus was subject to exactly this during the temptations in the wilderness.

Satan must have known that his opponent was formidable and planned to deceive Him with His own words.

There is nothing new under the sun...

Plenty of folks on CF argue with each other using scripture only as if somehow is more authoritative.

Without the Word of God the scripture is dead.

When Jesus was tempted scripture fell to the ground.

On CF this is happening all the time.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You missed the point entirely.

That fact that you use scripture to justify your position does not mean you are free from 'spin'.

Jesus was subject to exactly this during the temptations in the wilderness.

Satan must have known that his opponent was formidable and planned to deceive Him with His own words.

There is nothing new under the sun...

Plenty of folks on CF argue with each other using scripture only as if somehow is more authoritative.

Without the Word of God the scripture is dead.

When Jesus was tempted scripture fell to the ground.

On CF this is happening all the time.

Hmmm... Nope! Your arguing a dead point without fact, insinuating that what I posted was spin and not the truth of God's Word without proving why in a post where I stated that........

"We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *PHILIPPIANS 2:13 as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. These are God's Word not mine."

Now if you believe the above is spin and not the truth of Gods' Word then prove it. Now what is it from the above you do not believe? For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Matthew 15:3-9

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am referring to your spin on the sabbath - that is the matter you have focussed on in derailing the thread.

Please return to responding to the OP question.

I am sure readers would appreciate this.

Ok so you were quoting from my post above but your claiming that I am putting a spin on the Sabbath, yet I have only provided God's Word in relation to the Sabbath. They are Gods' Word not my words that you choose not to believe. So unless you can prove that what I have shared with you from the scriptures is spin and is not true, isn't your argument with God and not me who's Words they are? All your doing here is making empty claims and accusations you are unable to prove. Does that not worry you when all that has been shared with you is scripture and questions have been asked your unable to answer in regards to the scriptures? It should. As posted earlier happy to leave this discussion as I have said all I need to in regards to the OP here. Your the one now bringing the topic back to the Sabbath and making claims your unable to prove not me. I am only responding to what you have posted.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Can you find the grace to respond to the two questions put?
I already have answered the OP in my first post here. To be fair though I think you made Gods law and the Sabbath a part of this OP in your first paragraph. I did not start the conversations in regards to the Sabbath and God's law. I only responded to different posts by providing the scriptures which are Gods' Word not my words as have others. I have enjoyed the discussion but probably have better things to do now. So thank you for the discussion.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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HIM

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I am referring to your spin on the sabbath - that is the matter you have focussed on in derailing the thread.

Please return to responding to the OP question.

I am sure readers would appreciate this.
Conversations are dictated by responses. On Forums such as this Most have a certain topic they always revert back to if they are given the opportunity. Is this response of yours your topic.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I already have answered the OP in my first post here. To be fair though I think you made Gods law and the Sabbath a part of this OP in your first paragraph. I did not start the conversations in regards to the Sabbath and God's law. I only responded to different posts by providing the scriptures which are Gods' Word not my words as have others. I have enjoyed the discussion but probably have better things to do now. So thank you for the discussion.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Yes reading through the thread again, looking at the way it developed I concede that your entry into the discussion as you did was quite reasonable. I apologise for questioning this - although it somewhat intensely focussed on the sabbath law issue when I genuinely think that SDA's may be fruitul presenting Jesus to the Jews in their own territory as the early believers did.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Yes reading through the thread again, looking at the way it developed I concede that your entry into the discussion as you did was quite reasonable. I apologise for questioning this - although it somewhat intensely focussed on the sabbath law issue when I genuinely think that SDA's may be fruitul presenting Jesus to the Jews in their own territory as the early believers did.
Thanks for this Carl, no problem.

God bless
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Because we don’t have eternal life in us...Only God has eternal life...maybe another question

Why do we need grace? Another question when you can't answer this one??
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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No is old covenant commandments...whatever commandments Jesus spoke and the apostles are New covenant commandments...even if it also found in old covenant.

So Torah was not abolished as you have claimed?
 
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pasifika

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So Torah was not abolished as you have claimed?
Torah pointed to Gods Righteousness and that Righteousness is revealed in Christ...read Romans3: 21, the gospel of John etc
I don’t want to derail this thread so maybe I bow out from our discussion..Always Appreciate your time in sharing your biblical understanding..
 
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pasifika

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Why do we need grace? Another question when you can't answer this one??
For eternal life...okay maybe you can answer your own question then..your view on Grace maybe different from mine that why you don’t see my answer as the correct one...
 
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eleos1954

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Noah was not lawless, Job was not lawless, Abraham was not lawless, they all lived without the law.

No they knew the law.

The 10 Commandments before Moses

The First and Second Commandments state: “You shall have no other gods before Me [God]” and, “You shall not make for yourself a carved image … you shall not bow down to them nor serve them” (Third Commandment says, “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain” (Exodus 20:7).

It seems the patriarch Job lived before Moses, about the time of Isaac, according to the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary, quoting the historian Eusebius. Job was concerned that his children might have been taking God’s name in vain, and he knew that was wrong.

“So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them [his children], and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, ‘It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.’ Thus Job did regularly” (Job 1:5).

The Fourth Commandment tells us to “remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy” (Exodus 20:8). To remember the Sabbath is to recall something that was established earlier. Notice Genesis 2:3: “Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”

The 10 Commandments were known before Moses, and they are still important laws for all peoples today. God gave His laws for our good. They are based on love and help us know how to show love to God and our fellow man.Interestingly, Israel was reminded to remember the Sabbath even before they came to Mount Sinai. This was when God gave them manna to eat.

“Then he [Moses] said to them, ‘This is what the LORD has said: “Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD.”’ … Then Moses said, ‘Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it [manna] in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.’

“Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the LORD said to Moses, ‘How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?’ (Fifth Commandment says to “honor your father and your mother” (Exodus 20:12). Jacob and Esau both had dishonored their parents, but Jacob finally did obey. “Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob and sent him away to Padan Aram to take himself a wife from there, and that as he blessed him he gave him a charge, saying, ‘You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan,’ and that Jacob had obeyed his father and his mother and had gone to Padan Aram” (Genesis 28:6-7).

“You shall not murder” is the Sixth Commandment (Exodus 20:13). God told Cain he was to rule over and avoid sin, as anger was in Cain’s heart.

“So the LORD said to Cain, ‘Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.’ Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him” (Genesis 4:6-8). Cain’s anger led to the sin of murder.

After the Flood, people knew that God was against murder and demanded a penalty for it. “From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed. For in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:5-6).

The Seventh Commandment, “You shall not commit adultery” (Exodus 20:14), was known and understood by Joseph.

“And it came to pass after these things that his master’s wife cast longing eyes on Joseph, and she said, ‘Lie with me.’ But he refused and said to his master’s wife, ‘Look, my master does not know what is with me in the house, and he has committed all that he has to my hand. There is no one greater in this house than I, nor has he kept back anything from me but you, because you are his wife. How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?’” (Genesis 39:7-9).

God also had warned Abimelech, king of Gerar, not to commit adultery with Sarah. “God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, ‘Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man’s wife’” (Genesis 20:3).

“You shall not steal,” the Eighth Commandment (Exodus 20:15), was apparently on Jacob’s mind when he discussed his wages with Laban.

“So my righteousness will answer for me in time to come, when the subject of my wages comes before you: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the lambs, will be considered stolen, if it is with me” (Genesis 30:33).

The Ninth and 10th Commandments, “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” and, “You shall not covet” (Exodus 20:16-17), have been breached ever since Eve saw and desired (coveted) the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam ate of it as well (Genesis 3:6), and then both of them justified their actions (verses 10-13). The result of their disobedience to God was that they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden.

Job also knew that deceit and covetousness were sins against God: “If I have walked with falsehood, or if my foot has hastened to deceit, let me be weighed on honest scales, that God may know my integrity” (Job 31:5-6). Later, in verses 9-11, Job said, “If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor’s door. … that would be wickedness; yes, it would be iniquity deserving of judgment.”

The 10 Commandments existed before Moses and are still important today

In summary, the 10 Commandments were known before Moses, and they are still important laws for all peoples today. God gave His laws for our good (Deuteronomy 10:13). They are based on love and help us know how to show love to God and our fellow man (Romans 13:9-10). “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).

The law was handed down orally from the beginning until it was codified (written down)

We see the law was in place by the action(s) of the people of the time(s)
 
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eleos1954

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Keeping the two love COMMANDS is not fulfilling Gods commands?
That’s ludicrous. Of course it does.
The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.


The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them.


When the New Testament mentions keeping the commandments, it’s NOT the Decalogue that is meant, but the TWO love commands:


The scripture makes it clear, that love fulfills the law of God.


Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore LOVE isthe FULFILLING OF THE LAW.


And this:

Mat 22:36 Master, which isthe great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 JESUS SAID unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second islike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.


One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor.


If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.


Some fallacious arguments: if the Ten Commandments are not in effect, that means we can lie, steal, kill, worship idols, etc.


On the contrary, it should be obvious that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc.


Paul says exactly the same thing:


Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 LOVE worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isTHE FULFILLING OF the law.


And if you love God with all your heart, you won’t take His name in vain, or worship idols.


Another fallacious argument: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.


Another one: Paul kept the sabbath over 80 times in Acts - Paul was found every sabbath preaching to the sabbath keeping Jews (who were only there to hear Paul evangelize on the 7th day), that Jesus is their Messiah.


If he preached in the synagogue on Sunday, he’d be preaching to empty seats.


Keeping the two love COMMANDS is not fulfilling Gods commands?
That’s ludicrous. Of course it does.
The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.

The old covenant was not replaced ... the law was magnified (made fuller) by Christ, through His ministry He gave more in depth detail ... about our relationship with God and about our relationship with one another.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Above .. right out of the decalog of how we are to treat one another.

One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor.


If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.

Jesus through His ministry .... gave greater detail of how we are to relate to God and among ourselves .... they are based on the 10 ... with much greater detail.

On the contrary, it should be obvious that if you love your neighbor as yourself, you won’t do him any harm: you won’t steal from him, kill him, covet his wife or goods, bear false witness against him, etc.

Exactly .... and above is right out of the decalog.

Another fallacious argument: Jesus kept the sabbath - of course He did, because the old covenant law was still in effect until He died on the cross.

Jesus kept the Sabbath because He created it for mankind .... and He being in the form of man and representing both mankind and God is our example to follow. God keeps ALL of His covenants from beginning to end.

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

Mark 2:28
So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”

Jesus IS God, He kept the Sabbath, who knows more about God than God?

God never breaks His covenants .... NEVER. (people do break His covenants)
 
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eleos1954

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Keeping the two love COMMANDS is not fulfilling Gods commands?
That’s ludicrous. Of course it does.



On the contrary, Paul warns believers over and over about the consequences of living in sin continually, as a Christian.

Scripture clearly shows that remaining in Christ is conditional on us continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light - , and to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.


1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit.


The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to walk in the light, as He is in the light - (and repenting when we do occasionally sin.)


There is no condemnation for those who walk after the spirit, and not after the sinful flesh, (and who repent when they occasionally sin.)


Paul warns again against being deceived about sinning as a believer, when he wrote:


Gal 6:7 Be Not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting


You reap everlasting life if you sow to the spirit (walk after the Spirit, Romans 8:1, above)

There are many more scriptural warnings by Paul to the brethren.

We walk in the Spirit ... what is the work of the Holy Spirit?

To show us our sin ... and help us turn away from it.

What is sin? Transgression of the law.
 
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