Should Preachers Go to Bible College or Seminary?

Should a preacher go to Bible college and/or seminary?


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Tone

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Tone

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Paidiske

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What am I not seeing, since the results with seminaries in the West have been a disaster?

I'd say you're not seeing the thousands of faithful and fruitful ministers, who quietly and without fanfare, are doing their work for the kingdom.

I would say most people get out of seminary what they put into it.

This is true. The other part of the picture that I think people are missing is that seminary isn't just about what you learn in class. It's about being part of a community of people all committed to formation for ministry. It's about being in a place where not only do you absorb academic knowledge, but you see your professors on their knees in chapel, modelling for you an integrated life where knowledge isn't enough but prayer is essential. It's about being in an environment where reflection on your experiences and learnings is actively required of you.

It's so much more than writing papers and passing exams.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Yes and what happened to Timothy? Paul told him to start drinking to ease the stress.
Actually, he advised him to start taking some alcohol for health reasons related to his stomach.

"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses." 1 Timothy 5:23

And how is this related to my post?
 
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Der Alte

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This is true. The other part of the picture that I think people are missing is that seminary isn't just about what you learn in class. It's about being part of a community of people all committed to formation for ministry. It's about being in a place where not only do you absorb academic knowledge, but you see your professors on their knees in chapel, modelling for you an integrated life where knowledge isn't enough but prayer is essential. It's about being in an environment where reflection on your experiences and learnings is actively required of you.
It's so much more than writing papers and passing exams
.
I agree. Billy Graham was guest speaker at my seminary in '82. Interesting tale about it. Small chapel and of course everyone wanted to attend. Each student, faculty and staff got one ticket. Barring a miracle my wife would be attending. A few days before the service two students, I didn't know, were walking down the hallway toward me. One said to the other "I'm in the choir I don't need my ticket." I told him my predicament so he graciously gave me his ticket. After the service we hurried around to the the door where he would be leaving and I got this and another picture.
upload_2020-5-30_19-8-4.png
 
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klutedavid

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Tell me this: YES! Very much so there were some extremely knowledgeable Biblical Scholars during the time of Christ and they presented tons of knowledge to students like Saul/Paul. These scholars really knew the scriptures and might have had them virtually all memorized. SO, Why did they all refuse Christ as the Messiah when He came? Why did Nicodemus not come in the light to see, at least someone he realized was at least a prophet? Why did the not all accept John’s baptism, when they knew he was a prophet beyond any doubt?

If Seminaries today are producing “Biblical Scholars” like the “Biblical Scholars” produced by the very best Religious teachers of Christ’s day, they are doing more harm then good. Are there not lots of similarities between these first century religious teachers and the teaching going on in a Seminary?

Yes, Paul’s scripture “knowledge” did help him, but did the Spirit help the uneducated Peter and Hellenistic Steven reference Old Testament scripture just as will as Paul to the point that could not argue with them?

Paul went to the gentiles to teach them, so would his credentials of learning at the feet of Gamaliel help him be easily accepted by the gentiles?

How much training did the Eunuch get?
How much training did Paul have in the Old Testament, before he began the ministry?

Who did Peter say knew more about the gospel than he did?

There is a background to the world of the first century, that helps when reading the New Testament.

The New Testament was written by Jews. Unless you understand the law of Moses and their religious culture. Your misunderstanding the New Testament to a degree.

We are not talking about training ministers to the level of a scholar. Just the fundamentals and that takes a minimum of a few years.
 
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Tone

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The New Testament was written by Jews. Unless you understand the law of Moses and their religious culture. Your misunderstanding the New Testament to a degree.


Hebrew Roots.
 
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klutedavid

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No one claimed "no education is necessary" unless you believe correct bible study can ONLY be done within the confines of a college institution.

There is a difference between worrying about how accredited someone is and "no education" at all.

It is how well one knows the Lord that matters, not how many degrees they carry. You dont need a college to know and follow the Lord.

The scribes and pharisees knew the scriptures better than anyone.... and yet the harshest words that Jesus ever spoke were warnings to them.
Correct Toro, the Pharisees had to interpret the Old Testament and the law, that was their job. But the Pharisees added laws which increased the burden.
They were indifferent to those they had authority over. They were the elite and sat in the chair of Moses.

We are not talking about teaching the law.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

You have to know the scripture to teach the scripture.

Not trained in theology, trained in understanding the scripture.
 
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klutedavid

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Hebrew Roots.
Exactly, the Bible itself is overflowing with Hebrew culture and law. This generates an immense background noise in the scripture. That makes extracting the purest gospel a difficult task.

Judging by the number of denominations and there are thousands of them. It seems that not many denominations have it 100% correct.
 
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St_Worm2

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Tell me this: YES! Very much so there were some extremely knowledgeable Biblical Scholars during the time of Christ and they presented tons of knowledge to students like Saul/Paul. These scholars really knew the scriptures and might have had them virtually all memorized. SO, Why did they all refuse Christ as the Messiah when He came? Why did Nicodemus not come in the light to see, at least someone he realized was at least a prophet? Why did the not all accept John’s baptism, when they knew he was a prophet beyond any doubt?
Hello again Bling, we don't know about all of the Pharisees, of course, but Nicodemus appears to be one who most likely became a Christian after the Resurrection (he also defended Jesus in the company of the other Pharisees and rulers, and along with Joseph of Arimathea, he saw to the Lord's burial .. e.g. John 7:50-52; John 19:38-42).

Nicodemus also said this about the Pharisees,

John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

As for why many (most?) of the Pharisees did not openly follow him (at first, anyway), I think this verse gives us a bit of insight into that .. John 19:38.

That said, what does a formal education have to do with someone coming to faith :scratch: Many had a tremendous working knowledge of the Scriptures, but if that's all that's required to come to saving faith, then Satan would be a Christian, yes ;)

Rather, a formal education is necessary for the scholars among us, of course, as well for our pastors and Biblical counselors who are tasked with helping to teach/train/minister to the saints (who are already saved and part of the church).
Yes, Paul’s scripture “knowledge” did help him, but did the Spirit help the uneducated Peter and Hellenistic Steven reference Old Testament scripture just as will as Paul to the point that could not argue with them?
As @Radagast has already mentioned, was Peter "uneducated"? When he first met Jesus, yes, but he hardly remained so after living in the Lord's presence and learning from Him for 3 years. The Holy Spirit superintended the writing of Peter's Epistles and the Gospel of Mark, of course, and He helped him with His sermons when he preached, but Peter had clearly come to possess GREAT knowledge about God and the faith during his three years with Jesus, knowledge which the HS was able to help Peter organize and use.
Paul went to the gentiles to teach them, so would his credentials of learning at the feet of Gamaliel help him be easily accepted by the gentiles?
That is true, as he went from city to city and from Jewish temple to Jewish temple in them during his missionary journeys, he preached to the Gentiles along the way (all of whom seemed thrilled that the Lord had chosen to make His salvation available to them, as well .. Acts of the Apostles 13:46-48).

His great knowledge of the OT would have garnered him the respect of the people of the Nations, if that's what you mean, and I'm certain that it helped with his evangelist outreach (just like Philip was able to help the Ethiopian Eunuch understand who Jesus is using the Eunuch's copy of the Book of Isaiah).
How much training did the Eunuch get?
Training, to 'become' a Christian, how is that going to work .. cf 1 Corinthians 2:14?

Again, while a formal education is certainly helpful in regard to evangelism, it's principle use and benefit/blessing would certainly be to our scholars, shepherds, and saints.

God bless you!

--David
 
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Toro

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Correct Toro, the Pharisees had to interpret the Old Testament and the law, that was their job. But the Pharisees added laws which increased the burden.
They were indifferent to those they had authority over. They were the elite and sat in the chair of Moses.

We are not talking about teaching the law.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

You have to know the scripture to teach the scripture.

Not trained in theology, trained in understanding the scripture.
You can understand scripture by studying it, through prayer and devotion to the Father.... you do not need a college or other worldly institution to do that.

There is NOTHING wrong with higher learning. If one can, I believe they should. I just dont believe that making it the number one qualifer in ones ability to preach and lead is based off having a degree from an accredited college or institution. Nothing more.

There are plenty of television preachers out there, Im sure many of them have degrees of all sorts, biblical studies and secular studies alike. Doesnt mean I would agree that they are fit to lead or are truly men of God.

The enemy, he clearly knows scripture seeing as he used it to tempt Jesus. Ridiculous question of course, but if knowledge OF God and scripture is number one qualifier ... why would he not be fit to lead God's people?

As I said, ridiculous question, but there is a difference between knowledge OF God and KNOWING God.

Knowledge of scripture without putting it action by how they live is meaningless. The one that knows only scripture can talk of laws, they can talk on any subject all day long, but IF they do not KNOW God and do not have the Spirit giving life and power to their words.....there is no life in their words.

It is the Spirit that gives authority and power to the words a preacher speaks. Not the degree they hold.
 
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klutedavid

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You can understand scripture by studying it, through prayer and devotion to the Father.... you do not need a college or other worldly institution to do that.

There is NOTHING wrong with higher learning. If one can, I believe they should. I just dont believe that making it the number one qualifer in ones ability to preach and lead is based off having a degree from an accredited college or institution. Nothing more.

There are plenty of television preachers out there, Im sure many of them have degrees of all sorts, biblical studies and secular studies alike. Doesnt mean I would agree that they are fit to lead or are truly men of God.

The enemy, he clearly knows scripture seeing as he used it to tempt Jesus. Ridiculous question of course, but if knowledge OF God and scripture is number one qualifier ... why would he not be fit to lead God's people?

As I said, ridiculous question, but there is a difference between knowledge OF God and KNOWING God.

Knowledge of scripture without putting it action by how they live is meaningless. The one that knows only scripture can talk of laws, they can talk on any subject all day long, but IF they do not KNOW God and do not have the Spirit giving life and power to their words.....there is no life in their words.

It is the Spirit that gives authority and power to the words a preacher speaks. Not the degree they hold.
We are not discussing whether someone has the Holy Spirit. We are not discussing the way a person lives their Christian life.

We are discussing, what training a minister needs to correctly handle and understand the scripture.

A Bible college is different to an institution that teaches a theology.

Believe me, when I tell you that there are probably ten views taught on eschatology (end times) alone. But only one of those views is correct. So 90% of all eschatology taught by ministers will be from a faulty interpretation, they will be incorrect. They are preaching something that is just not true.

Eschatology is just one example.

Tell me what option you have chosen in eschatology. And I will know what method of interpretation your following.
 
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klutedavid

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If you believe that the Holy Spirit and how one lives their life is separate in the qualifications of ones role to lead God's people... I have nothing left to say.
I did not say that.

This thread is about whether a future minister needs an education, an education in the scripture. This thread is not about a spirit led Christian.

I believe a Christian minister usually has the gift of teaching, of training other Christians. Reading the scripture and understanding the scripture, is another subject altogether.

You did not tell me your position in eschatology?
 
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Paidiske

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If you believe that the Holy Spirit and how one lives their life is separate in the qualifications of ones role to lead God's people... I have nothing left to say.

The Holy Spirit and living a godly life are necessary, but honestly I believe not sufficient to be a church leader in today's context.

Even just understanding the legal landscape in which we operate and the various legal requirements of us - in everything from solemnising marriages to child safety to confidentiality and privacy (and all the rest) - requires more than that.
 
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Toro

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The Holy Spirit and living a godly life are necessary, but honestly I believe not sufficient to be a church leader in today's context.

Even just understanding the legal landscape in which we operate and the various legal requirements of us - in everything from solemnising marriages to child safety to confidentiality and privacy (and all the rest) - requires more than that.
How is the Holy Spirit NOT sufficient?

That is my point.

If one is truly lead by the Holy Spirit... will their fruit be bad?

If one is TRULY lead by the Holy Spirit, will they not be following the very one whose name we claim by calling ourselves Christians?

How is THAT not sufficient?

Im not saying that ANYONE is qualified to lead and preach.... but their education should be of secondary importance, not first.

If they can not FIRST walk the walk..... why should anyone give ear when they attempt to talk the talk.

Jesus Christ was not just our savior but an example...... He lived it and He spoke it.

It is by His example that we are to live... and... IF called to do so.... to even more so lead, and do so by example.

Knowledge is good, BUT if its value is placed as the number one unshakeable priority. Then priorities are not where they shoukd be.

Has the Father become less powerful since entering into the New Covenant?

IF He was able to qualify the least qualified under the old covenant.... why would He not be able to do the same today?

If God says His grace us sufficient, I have to believe that the Holy Spirit is MORE than capable of traversing the "dangerous legal system" of today... tomorrow and any and all things to come.

Thats just me, if you still believe that education is the end all be all qualifier to lead God's people then... peace be with you.
 
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Paidiske

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Im not saying that ANYONE is qualified to lead and preach.... but their education should be of secondary importance, not first.

If they can not FIRST walk the walk..... why should anyone give ear when they attempt to talk the talk...

Knowledge is good, BUT if its value is placed as the number one unshakeable priority. Then priorities are not where they shoukd be.

I agree with you.

Has the Father become less powerful since entering into the New Covenant?

IF He was able to qualify the least qualified under the old covenant.... why would He not be able to do the same today?

If God says His grace us sufficient, I have to believe that the Holy Spirit is MORE than capable of traversing the "dangerous legal system" of today... tomorrow and any and all things to come.

Toro, the Holy Spirit leads me in my work day by day. But I also need to have access to more mundane learning about things. Because no, the Holy Spirit doesn't necessarily stop us from inadvertently breaking the secular law in some way.

So no, education isn't the be all and end all, but some basic minimum things should be in place.
 
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