Should people living in sin be rejected from the church

[BNR32FAN]

Look, you were the one defending somebody who is living in sin who attends church. I asked a simple question... is that person sinning in ignorance or so they KNOW what they are doing is sin and are doing it anyway? The latter isn't sin, whatever your name is, it is rebellion. KNOWING and WILLFUL sin is rebellion, not sin. My question was, are you defending those who are in rebellion against God here?

Everyone who sins rebels against God. Have you never sinned after becoming a Christian? Brother these people need our help. Please be compassionate brother.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Look, you were the one defending somebody who is living in sin who attends church. I asked a simple question... is that person sinning in ignorance or so they KNOW what they are doing is sin and are doing it anyway? The latter isn't sin, whatever your name is, it is rebellion. KNOWING and WILLFUL sin is rebellion, not sin. My question was, are you defending those who are in rebellion against God here?

My question is are you not defending them out of love?

My advice is to show love to all and forgiveness to all no matter what with compassion as God has compassion on us every day.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Some people are mockers and idolizers. They hate God and they hate Christians. They are "Rules for Radicals" Saul Alinsky's and they come to Church to blaspheme, and work heresies.

Yes, there are those, but to God you are a radicle and need to be forgiven and shown compassion also in many ways.

You are being radicle to them who are radicle.

 

[Ken Rank]

That kind of attitude makes us look bad.

Do you know what the Hebrew word for "name" means? It isn't as much "what we call somebody," it is dealing more with the name bearers character, reputation, and authority. So... to "walk in the name of God" means we walk in a manner that is within the structure of His authority, in line with His character, and in a way that adds to his reputation. We profane His name when we walk outside of His authority, are not in harmony with His character, and take from His reputation.

A person who walks with the intent of sanctifying God's name but who misses the mark from time to time (sin) because he still exists in a fallen state doesn't make us look bad and doesn't make God look bad. But the Christian who says, "The God of the bible is my God" but who then KNOWINGLY walks in a manner that stands opposed to God's will... is a liar and a rebel against God.

God does not change... our culture does. People have all the sex they want before marriage but then go to church and act holy but the truth is... they know sex outside marriage is against God's will thus they are profaning His name.

All that to ask this... me sharing that truth makes us look bad? Really? Are we really making excuses for rebellion now?

 

[Ken Rank]

My question is are you not defending them out of love?

My advice is to show love to all and forgiveness to all no matter what with compassion as God has compassion on us every day.

I am answering a post on a public forum... not dealing in person with an individual who might be attending our congregation but who is in sin. So I am not sure if you can properly gauge whether I would or wouldn't approach this in a loving fashion that remains in harmony with our Father's character and reputation (name).

There is scriptural protocol when it comes to that... and there is also patience. Sometimes God uses our shortcomings to teach us and make us stronger. Just keep in mind, I haven't shared anything about what I would or wouldn't do... I asked a few questions.

 

[Danielwright2311]

Do you know what the Hebrew word for "name" means? It isn't as much "what we call somebody," it is dealing more with the name bearers character, reputation, and authority. So... to "walk in the name of God" means we walk in a manner that is within the structure of His authority, in line with His character, and in a way that adds to his reputation. We profane His name when we walk outside of His authority, are not in harmony with His character, and take from His reputation.

A person who walks with the intent of sanctifying God's name but who misses the mark from time to time (sin) because he still exists in a fallen state doesn't make us look bad and doesn't make God look bad. But the Christian who says, "The God of the bible is my God" but who then KNOWINGLY walks in a manner that stands opposed to God's will... is a liar and a rebel against God.

God does not change... our culture does. People have all the sex they want before marriage but then go to church and act holy but the truth is... they know sex outside marriage is against God's will thus they are profaning His name.

All that to ask this... me sharing that truth makes us look bad? Really? Are we really making excuses for rebellion now?

So then your position is to reject them? not forgive them? not have compassion for them?

What about your sins? Are they not included with your ideas?

Its not any excuses for rebellion its looking at your sins first before you judge them.

No offence to you, just a example.

 

[Danielwright2311]

I am answering a post on a public forum... not dealing in person with an individual who might be attending our congregation but who is in sin. So I am not sure if you can properly gauge whether I would or wouldn't approach this in a loving fashion that remains in harmony with our Father's character and reputation (name).

There is scriptural protocol when it comes to that... and there is also patience. Sometimes God uses our shortcomings to teach us and make us stronger. Just keep in mind, I haven't shared anything about what I would or wouldn't do... I asked a few questions.

I see, I was just asking, sorry.

 

[Ken Rank]

Everyone who sins rebels against God. Have you never sinned after becoming a Christian? Brother these people need our help. Please be compassionate brother.

Nope... that preaches well and sounds great to the Western Evangelical mind, but it isn't the Hebraic understanding of sin. And why Hebraic? Because being Jewish, Yeshua and all the disciples would have had that mindset. So... if you care to hear it... this might help...

In Hebrew there are three words that WE generally consider to be sin, but are in fact unique words that carry different concepts.

1. Chata'ah - most often translated as sin and defined as "missing the mark," that definition misses the mark, slightly. It is best seen in the picture of an archer... who has a bow and arrow and a target. His INTENT is to ALWAYS hit the target (the righteousness of God) but being in a fallen state, misses the mark on occasion. This would be best translated as unintentional sin.

2. Avon - most often translated as transgression or iniquity. Same archer and SAME INTENT... but beyond the normal fallen state misses... here he gets caught up in an emotion that causes him to aim at another target. With chata'ah the target was ALWAYS God's righteousness, but here the emotion causes a shift in aim... say at a young lady he should not be aiming at. Once he acts on the emotion, and things calm down... he refocuses and goes back to the proper target.

3. Pesha - rebellion, plain and simple. This is knowing the target God desires you to aim at and deliberately finding anything else to aim at.

So... is the person in sin that sits next to you in chata'ah or pesha? If pesha... if they KNOW God doesn't want them to do ____ and they are doing it anyway and making excuses for it, they will take from the local body and cause disruption.

 

[Ken Rank]

So then your position is to reject them? not forgive them? not have compassion for them?

What about your sins? Are they not included with your ideas?

Its not any excuses for rebellion its looking at your sins first before you judge them.

No offence to you, just a example.

I don't worry about the plank in the eyes of others UNLESS their plank will cause others to leave the path or turn from God. Read my last post about the 3 Hebrew words and you'll get a better idea how I see all this. Be blessed... and I do apologize if I was strong toward you. I wasn't intending to be, just answering a question and trying to do it quickly. I still have much work to get to today.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Ken Rank]

What about your sins? Are they not included with your ideas?.

Of course... we can't create a double standard. And I have faults like everyone else... temptations.... until we are perfected we all will have to try. That is why Yeshua said, "He who endures until the end." We might lose a battle or two along the way but we can win the war (so to speak) if we continue to keep our eyes and hearts on the righteousness of God.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Danielwright2311]

Of course... we can't create a double standard. And I have faults like everyone else... temptations.... until we are perfected we all will have to try. That is why Yeshua said, "He who endures until the end." We might lose a battle or two along the way but we can win the war (so to speak) if we continue to keep our eyes and hearts on the righteousness of God.

Blessings.
Ken

That's true, its a battle till the end, we all need to guide each other to the path of perfection if possible.

 

[Danielwright2311]

I don't worry about the plank in the eyes of others UNLESS their plank will cause others to leave the path or turn from God. Read my last post about the 3 Hebrew words and you'll get a better idea how I see all this. Be blessed... and I do apologize if I was strong toward you. I wasn't intending to be, just answering a question and trying to do it quickly. I still have much work to get to today.

Blessings.
Ken

No reason to apologize, was just trying to understand your ideas is all.

You also be blessed.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Seems to me I recall someone of importance saying "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

 

[BigDaddy4]

In general, no one should be prevented from attending a service. Exceptions might be if people are being disruptive or there are safety concerns with their attendance.

Yes, this.

The OP was about church attendance, not membership. Most of the responses here seem to be directed at church members in sin. Perhaps they have not experienced a visitor to their church who is living in sin, heard the Gospel preached, come to Christ, and turned their lives around.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you know what the Hebrew word for "name" means? It isn't as much "what we call somebody," it is dealing more with the name bearers character, reputation, and authority. So... to "walk in the name of God" means we walk in a manner that is within the structure of His authority, in line with His character, and in a way that adds to his reputation. We profane His name when we walk outside of His authority, are not in harmony with His character, and take from His reputation.

A person who walks with the intent of sanctifying God's name but who misses the mark from time to time (sin) because he still exists in a fallen state doesn't make us look bad and doesn't make God look bad. But the Christian who says, "The God of the bible is my God" but who then KNOWINGLY walks in a manner that stands opposed to God's will... is a liar and a rebel against God.

God does not change... our culture does. People have all the sex they want before marriage but then go to church and act holy but the truth is... they know sex outside marriage is against God's will thus they are profaning His name.

All that to ask this... me sharing that truth makes us look bad? Really? Are we really making excuses for rebellion now?

How are you being a light to those people by turning your back on those who are looking for help?

““Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—cheaters, sinners, adulterers. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:10-14

 

[BigDaddy4]

Look, you were the one defending somebody who is living in sin who attends church. I asked a simple question... is that person sinning in ignorance or so they KNOW what they are doing is sin and are doing it anyway? The latter isn't sin, whatever your name is, it is rebellion. KNOWING and WILLFUL sin is rebellion, not sin. My question was, are you defending those who are in rebellion against God here?

Are you really going to refuse to allow them to attend your church just because they are knowingly living in sin? Where should these rebellious sinners go to hear the Gospel that might turn their lives around?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, this.

The OP was about church attendance, not membership. Most of the responses here seem to be directed at church members in sin. Perhaps they have not experienced a visitor to their church who is living in sin, heard the Gospel preached, come to Christ, and turned their lives around.

I was that sinner who found Christ 5 years ago and it wasn’t an easy change. I backslid several times but thru God’s grace I have received the Holy Spirit and changed my life. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I was in a discussion today and was shocked to hear that some people think that people who are living in sin should not be allowed to attend their church. This truly breaks my heart to hear this. The discussion was using an example of two people who are living together but aren’t married. What are your thoughts?

The Bible says they aren't saved, and if they call themselves believers, and won't repent, to put them out. That's not the same as rejecting them, realize, because the hope is that after being 'shunned', they will repent and be able to return to fellowship without defiling it.

 

[Thedictator]

I was in a discussion today and was shocked to hear that some people think that people who are living in sin should not be allowed to attend their church. This truly breaks my heart to hear this. The discussion was using an example of two people who are living together but aren’t married. What are your thoughts?

If we are talking about visitors who only want to attend worship services and Sunday school, then I see no Biblical reason for not letting them attend, but if they want to join the church and become part of the membership that would be a problem. If they are not a Christian, then they would need to repent of their sins and the sin they are living in. If the are unwilling to repent then they will be unable to became a born again Christian. If they are a Christian in error and want to repent of the error of their lifestyle then great, but if they want to keep living in sin, then there is no real fellowship with the Church or other true Christians.

 

[Ken Rank]

Seems to me I recall someone of importance saying "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

Yes, but that doesn't mean we allow rebellion among our congregations. Do the names Ananias and Sapphira ring a bell?

And... God does not change. We might like to think the God was a God of law long ago and is now the God of peace and love. But the truth is He always was a God of peace and love and is still a God who can law. So, no... we all sin and shouldn't be quick to throw the stone. But we also cannot allow destructive behavior to tear apart the body. That's why there are some who are elders and pastors and some who are not. Along with that calling comes the wisdom to know how to deal with these things.