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Featured Should people living in sin be rejected from the church

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by BNR32FAN, May 17, 2018.

  1. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    It depends on if those two people are professed believers or non-believers, and what sin it is. According to 1 Corinthians 5, Apostle Paul decided the man who had committed sexual immorality should be removed from among them:

    It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. (1 Corinthians 5:1-2 NASB)​

    The Corinth church had other sins but Apostle Paul didn't ask to remove everyone who committed every single sin. It seems like he took sexual immorality more seriously than the other sins.
     
  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,941
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    First: the problem is NOT about being around the lost. That's not even related.

    Likewise, it is NOT about "our work on earth". NOR about "closing our doors".

    If you want to do God's Word on earth, follow HIS INSTRUCTIONS.
    Disobeying HIS INSTRUCTIONS is bad. As HE SAYS. In fact, it is sin.

    Saved persons cannot leave the world to avoid the unsaved. This is stated directly in Scripture.

    WHO then are Ekklesia NOT to "hang out with" ? I think it was posted several times, and ignored OR misunderstood?

    WHO does GOD say to "put out from your (Ekklesia) midst ? "

    (You can't argue with this - It is written explicitly.)
    well, some still directly reject God's Word. That is on them ....

    Even IN ENGLISH (which is sometimes not good translation)
    it is written to put out SOMEONE from the assembly, and it is written WHY.

    This does not apply to avoiding UNbelievers , even though they live in continual sin.

    IT ONLY APPLIES to those GOD SAYS IT APPLIES TO. For the purpose that THEY MAY BE BROUGHT TO REPENTANCE and RESTORED and FORGIVEN.

    The FALSE GOSPEL, which is even worse, says that people don't have to repent.
    That's for another place.
     
  3. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was using that here but never took another look at it to refresh myself on exactly how it was worded. Wish I had, it would have saved me some trouble, as it's much more direct than I remember it being..."midst" actually covers the church/church house, and basically means keep them away...period.

    That settles it, and thank you. :)
     
  4. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    The OP further clarified that in this situation, the unmarried couple were not members of said church. So all else is irrelevant and a strawman.
     
  5. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    As part of an outreach program to non-believers in my church, we eat with known sinners on a weekly basis while we share the Gospel. We take meals to homeless shelters and eat with them, many of whom are "unrepentant sinners".

    I guess when Jesus said to feed the hungry he meant to check if they had repented of their sins first??
     
  6. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,

    Done! No problems here. Please keep your self-righteous comments to yourself. God is my judge, not you.
     
  7. LifeThatWins

    LifeThatWins Member Supporter

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    Anyone living in open immoral sin like the one you had mentioned can be allowed/welcomed to participate in the church. However, for continuous attending, they need to be given some regulations in private and in love without embarrassing them like,
    they are

    * not to take part in ministering to others that includes choir/music or any way kind of ministry
    * not to take part in communion

    * not to influence/lead/guide others in the church to their way of life

    While we need to love them and take efforts to bring them closer to the Lord, we also have responsibility towards the younger folks in that we protect them from getting defiled and misguided by the people who live in such immoral sin.

    While we all have a need for sanctification in different areas of life to be cleansed from gossip, overeating etc., lack of discipline in areas like these cannot be compared with the immoral sin like the ones you had mentioned.{Ref: 1 Cor 5:11}

    Jude warns us to hate even the garment defiled by the flesh{Jude 1:23} while trying to save others!
    How careful we need to be in preserving our holiness and grow in holiness, so we are effective in Christ!
     
  8. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    First, we need to define sin according to the Word of God.
    ....... Two unmarried and young heterosexual Christian couple living together and remaining faithful to each other until they can be legally married(eg marriage is delayed because of financial circumstances) are likely not living in sin. They may already be spiritually married in the eyes of God, like Adam and Eve, Noah and wife, etc who were not lawfully/legally married.

    ROMANS.7: = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.

    MATTHEW.7: = 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

    MATTHEW.22: = 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

    MATTHEW.5: = 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

    ACTS.15: = 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.

    1CORINTHIANS.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

    MATTHEW.18:15-17 and 1CORINTHIANS.5:1-13 command the Church to expel or excommunicate unrepentant sinners/evildoers/law-breakers.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  9. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

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    You need to read on to Matthew 25:40 which says that we are to feed and welcome Jesus's brothers.

    Who are his brothers? Well, they are not everyone as only a few become children of God (John 1:12 Matthew 22:14) and they are known to be brothers by doing the will of God (Matthew 12:48-50).

    The Kingdom is highly elitist and exclusive. It is has very limited membership (Matthew 7:14) and extremely tight entry criteria (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  10. peter jenner

    peter jenner WUSSY WORCESTER

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    Hi All. Peter the newbie, first time i posted on forums. i was not actually living in sin , in as much as we were living together, but my ex partner and i were "together" for 17 years. i met her in 2001 when she was in an unhappy dead marriage [in her own words], and we started an affair after falling in love. she left her husband 7 yrs ago when the two children had flown the nest. she refused to divorce him because "it would upset him and the boys" going through a divorce. she said she "did'nt want to rub his face in it"... he was an unbeliever and her and me were/are baptized believers. the church's stance on all this ? the singles and married once were mostly all condemning and i of course took the majority of the blame. [i'd led her astray etc]. i was pretty much treated like a leper by the heavyweight holy rollers. interestingly, the only people "sympathetic" and understanding were the churchgoers who either had been divorced/remarried themselves, or ones who'd church going offspring had been married but it had ended and they were remarried etc. the church leadership did not approve of our adultery and fornication of course, but told us as long as were stayed apart in the church, they would tolerate us attending. i myself had a short distasterous marriage to a churchgoering women in 1993 and she was a divorcee who'd unbelieving husband had left her for another woman and divorced her in 1986. she was a believer. so according to Pauls teachings in the bible , she was "set free". it did not stop her and me being told we would "go to hell" for adultery when we married in 1993. i've been there, seen it pretty much all. all the religious bluster and hypocrisy. just saying ....
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Stop. The original incident is not at issue here, just the popular use of the expression.
     
  12. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

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    Whatever happened to just standing before the altar and the congregation, with your pastor, and making your vows for all to see?

    Does that really have to involve money beyond the tiny cost of a marriage certificate itself?
     
  13. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If these people claim to be Christian, they need to get married or face discipline. So if they claim to be believers, they should not be allowed to attend.

    However if they are unbelievers- a church should welcome them in to hear the good news and hopefully8 get saved! We cannot hold the world to believers standard of holiness. They do not have the Holy Spirit, are not regenerated. We need to let them hear the Word of God so faith may enter .
     
  14. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    The sin of the WORLD is Unbelief... (John)

    For God so Loved the World... Whosoever BELIEVES... (John)

    The work of God is to BELIEVE in the One He Sent... (John)

    If you say you have no sin, you make Him a liar (John from 1 John)

    Confess your sins one to another (James)

    Palm to Face!

    Perfection is God’s and God’s Exchanged Life is ours upon BELIEF (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    Blessed is the man who’s Sins are forgotten! (Romans 4)

    You perfection teachers are obtuse to the Truth of the matter! That’s not ink on your fingers... it’s the blood of the lost!
     
  15. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    The old add to the adulterous gig... Nope!
     
  16. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    The best works of the ungodly are as filthy rags before God. The best works of the godly are as PRECIOUS METALS AND INCENSE before God.

    Ungodly, Unrighteous Israel:


    Isaiah 64:1-7 Oh, that You would rend the heavens!
    That You would come down!
    That the mountains might shake at Your presence—
    2 As fire burns brushwood,
    As fire causes water to boil—
    To make Your name known to Your adversaries,
    That the nations may tremble at Your presence!
    3 When You did awesome things for which we did not look,
    You came down,
    The mountains shook at Your presence.
    4 For since the beginning of the world
    Men have not heard nor perceived by the ear,
    Nor has the eye seen any God besides You,
    Who acts for the one who waits for Him.
    5 You [GOD] meet him [THE GODLY MAN] who rejoices and does righteousness,
    Who remembers You in Your ways. [The godly man rejoices in God and he does righteousness]

    You are indeed angry, for we [SINFUL, UNRIGHTEOUS ISRAEL]have sinned—
    In these ways we continue;
    And we need to be saved.

    6 But we [ISRAEL] are all like an unclean thing,
    And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
    We all fade as a leaf,
    And our iniquities, like the wind,
    Have taken us away.
    7 And there is no one who calls on Your name, [THERE IS NO ONE IN ISRAEL WHO CALLS ON YOUR NAME EXCEPT ISAIAH WHO IS A RIGHTEOUS MAN AND HE INDEED CALLS ON GOD'S NAME]
    Who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
    For You have hidden Your face from us [SINFUL, UNRIGHTEOUS ISRAEL],
    And have consumed us because of our iniquities. nkjv​

    THE RIGHTEOUS:


    Revelation 5:8
    [ Worthy Is the Lamb ] Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. nkjv

    1 Corinthians 3:11-16
    For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
    16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? nkjv


    1 Peter 1:7
    that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, nkjv

    Matthew 5:16
    Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. nkjv


    Ephesians 2:10
    For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. nkjv

    Titus 2:14
    who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. nkjv

    Titus 3:8
    This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. nkjv

    Titus 3:14
    And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful. nkjv

    The righteous people do good works which are pleasing to God.



     
  17. Sine Nomine

    Sine Nomine Scientist and Christian

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    Part of the difficulty in addressing this topic well is the very real problem of knowing what passages mean. If Catholic, you accept Holy Tradition which tells you what to know. If Protestant, rejecting all but Scripture itself is common, which means you read and cross-reference and the Holy Spirit leads you into understanding. If you blindly accept what others (even leaders) say, you have returned to accepting tradition as authoritative and in Protestantism there are diverse claims to authority. All this to say that how passages are understood matters and that one’s reading may not be correct.

    Assuming that the Greek in Matt 25 means that Jesus was referring to feeding his brothers (and not calling those doing the feeding brothers, note that “the least of these my brethren” is not in 25:45) then going on to defining brothers seems reasonable as a way to see who is excluded.

    If Jesus means that those who acted righteously (even without realizing it) are his brothers, then further definition of brother has to include the first instance. The same verses mentioned can then be used to say that those who do the will of God (eg feed, clothe, visit) are the ones who know God, have a wedding garment, and have found the narrow way. In this light, The Wedding Banquet parable in Matthew, suggests that the one who is expelled is the one who was not brought in (the others were given a garment)—the Master knows who doesn’t belong.

    I disagree that the Kingdom is elitist and I cannot know it’s size. Jesus says he came to save the world, not condemn it.
    I’m convinced however that exclusive is right—those who Jesus knows, who do God’s will (and might be surprised to learn they did), and who didn’t merit an invitation, these are Jesus’ brothers. I think we are hard pressed to know as God does and be very hesitant to define who is Christ’s brother and who isn’t.

    Exclusion based on Paul’s letters seems to be a different thing, I suggest that Paul had an eye to preserving the earthly church. Some actions and behaviors require excluding persons, not because they may not be among Christ’s brothers ultimately, but because they harm the Church.
     
  18. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 4 obliterate your premise...

    God “Justifies” the “Ungodly”... but... hey... maybe Paul’s 14 letters are wrong. :D
     
  19. Sine Nomine

    Sine Nomine Scientist and Christian

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    I’m not sure that “living in sin” in the OP means unmarried but living together. I think the broader sense of sinful or unrepentant is meant.
     
  20. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    How does one get saved if they don’t know Christ’s Love while they are unrepentant?

    I think people miss that the Gospel is 1 Corinthians 13 relentless and it’s end result is reconciliation with God, By Jesus Christ’s merit... alone.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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