Should or could I pray for him?

[PittBullMom]

Charles Manson, mastermind behind 1969 deaths of actress Sharon Tate, 6 others, dead at 83

Charles Manson finally passed. The thought actually crossed my mind but then I'm not sure.... I don't even know what I'm unsure of. I just got an uncomfortable feeling after the thought. I don't know why.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I will let others add more wisdom on this. I know there are monks who pray for salvation for such as these.

My own experience is that it might not be safe for the average layperson to "reach too far" in these kinds of prayers. But I was not yet Orthodox and had many lessons ahead of me at that point. Maybe someone else has some more definite wisdom.


But I do routinely pray for the perpetrators of various acts that are reported in the news, etc.

 

[PittBullMom]

That might explain the uncomfortable feeling I got after I thought about it.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Most Believers would take their cue from “Lazarus and the Rich Man.Fates are sealed at death apparently.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I dont really have the wisdom to know. All I know is that I pray briefly for those who commit evil acts in the world today. But as a less-experienced Christian I ran into trouble trying to pray - maybe beyond my ability. If that makes sense. I think you are wise to ask. I'm not really qualified to give a definite answer though. Just some shadows of answers.

Interested to see if there is wisdom on this. I may ask my SF when I next talk to him, to gain some knowledge in such things myself. If I do I will stare.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Most Believers would take their cue from “Lazarus and the Rich Man.Fates are sealed at death apparently.

Hello Blood Bought. Welcome to TAW. (You might not have realized that's where you were posting.

But to all visitors - such a debate is off-topic to this forum and will derail the OP's thread. It can be discussed in St. Justin Martyr's forum though.

Welcome to visitors, but please let's not derail the thread with debate. Thank you all so much.

 

[PittBullMom]

Most Believers would take their cue from “Lazarus and the Rich Man.Fates are sealed at death apparently.

I was actually thinking about this on the way to church this morning. Learning that EO do not believe in purgatory had me thinking about just heaven and hell and who occupies what. So yeah you're right. He's already where ever he belongs. It would be a moot point. However, during liturgy we do pray for the dead. So, I'm assuming praying for the dead only if they were in a certain state of grace before they passed?

 

[PittBullMom]

Oh, just saw your post @Anastasia. On my cell I can't see what denomination a person is under their name only on my kindle.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I was actually thinking about this on the way to church this morning. Learning that EO do not believe in purgatory had me thinking about just heaven and hell and who occupies what. So yeah you're right. He's already where ever he belongs. It would be a moot point. However, during liturgy we do pray for the dead. So, I'm assuming praying for the dead only if they were in a certain state of grace before they passed?

Matt explains it better.

We don't speculate on anyone's state after death.

And God is not limited by time. Who knows but that He answers prayers based on knowing we will pray them (not future for God) ... but if we don't pray them, they are not part of the equation.

That doesn't change my caution based on who you are asking about though - but as I said, my answer was not definitevon thatv

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Hello Blood Bought. Welcome to TAW. (You might not have realized that's where you were posting.

But to all visitors - such a debate is off-topic to this forum and will derail the OP's thread. It can be discussed in St. Justin Martyr's forum though.

Welcome to visitors, but please let's not derail the thread with debate. Thank you all so much.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Sorry I would never try to offend....just another “clueless”offense from yours truly....throw it on the pile. Lol

 

[~Anastasia~]

Sorry I would never try to offend....just another “clueless”offense from yours truly....throw it on the pile. Lol

No problem. Believe me, I know how easy it is to not realize where you are posting - and I try to always double check because it's worse if I do it.

It's just that the OP has two threads posted recently, and the first one has been derailed and taken over with disputes, which seemed to be involving potentially beneficial discussion, and the OP hasn't objected, so for now it's continuing. But I didn't want to see that happen with another by the same poster in as many days.

It's nothing personal, and no offense taken. I was mostly trying to head off lots of agreeing posts.

Have a good evening, and God bless.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Our prayers matter and can play a role in the hereafter. That said, Manson is not worth my prayer time with all the people suffering or in need. His name falls at the bottom of my list.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yes, you can and probably should pray for him (as we all should) because he probably needs them more.

remember God seeks the salvation of all

 

[~Anastasia~]

yes, you can and probably should pray for him (as we all should) because he probably needs them more.

remember God seeks the salvation of all

Glad to hear this.

I was very tired last night (still am but I've had an almost two-hour nap anyway ).

I probably shouldn't have said anything, but I was initially reaching a bit more with my prayers, and with far less understanding.

 

[PittBullMom]

yes, you can and probably should pray for him (as we all should) because he probably needs them more.

remember God seeks the salvation of all

I have a part B to this question. Like I said, if there is no purgatory to be released from, and he's either in heaven or hell, what would the benefits be and how. My understanding is we pray for the saints (lower case s) and hope they will pray for us. Capital s Saints will most definitely pray for us. But what would Charles Manson do? Its so iffy. There is a possibility he rejected God and went to hell.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I have a part B to this question. Like I said, if there is no purgatory to be released from, and he's either in heaven or hell, what would the benefits be and how. My understanding is we pray for the saints (lower case s) and hope they will pray for us. Capital s Saints will most definitely pray for us. But what would Charles Manson do? Its so iffy. There is a possibility he rejected God and went to hell.

sure, but since we don't know we can still pray for him. we don't know if he repented in his last moment. which is why we pray. if God is outside of time, it's never too late to pray for anyone

 

[Mary of Bethany]

I don't think it's ever wrong to ask God's mercy on someone who has died. I said a quick prayer for him this morning. How can I ask God to have mercy on me if there's anyone in this world that I would not want Him to have mercy on?

 

[Lily76_]

what he did was evil but even evil people can be prayed for i dont think evil people should end up in heaven but i dont want him to go to hell either he was very sick in the head his madness is an illness like all sick there should be mercy maybe he will not suffer like his victims did but i feel that there should be somewhere not hell but some where else maybe purgatory ( am unsure what happens there as i d ont read the bible as much as i should )

 

[gzt]

You certainly could and if it weighs on you heavily maybe you should, but it's much harder and more important to pray for your actual enemies - the ones who can really do you harm - and your actual neighbors - the ones you come into contact with in your life and can actually do some good (or evil) for. Sometimes these things in popular culture can become a distraction to us that prevents us from noticing what is really going on around us and what our duties really are.