Should NYC embrace plans for a Mosque at Ground Zero?

[BarrySoetoro]

An ambitious plan to build a mosque next to New York's Ground Zero is prompting hope - and anger - in a city scarred by terrorism. There's little to see now at the site, an abandoned clothing store two blocks from the former World Trade Centre where nearly 3000 people died on September 11, 2001.

But Feisal Abdul Rauf, a New York imam and a leader of the project, says the planned multi-storey Islamic centre will transform both the drab lower Manhattan street and the way Americans have looked on Muslims since 9/11.

Boasting a mosque with sports facilities, a theatre and possibly day care, the centre would be open to all visitors to demonstrate that Muslims are part of their community, not some separate element.

"There's nothing like this that we know of in the United States,' Rauf told AFP. 'This will be a community centre for everyone, not just for Muslims, but non-Muslims.'

Many look forward to the centre, which Rauf estimates will cost $US105-140 million to build, possibly financed with bonds.

Plan for mosque near Ground Zero angers

The stench of corpses still emanates from this haunted sinkhole in Manhattan. I can't think of a better place to build a mosque. I'm sure it will bring healing and harmony to Manhattan, as Islam does everywhere it goes.

 

[DontTreadOnMike]

I just don't care.

 

[Macx]

It is a little over the top in terms of crass insensitivity. Maybe we should place crosses and Stars of David over the graves of Muslims killed in Iraq and Afganistan as I am sure it's bring healing and harmony.

Saying

This will be a community centre for everyone, not just for Muslims, but non-Muslims.

to get grant money and calling it

multi-storey Islamic centre

just shows . .. The West doesn't have the market cornered on lying politicians.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

The stench of corpses still emanates from this haunted sinkhole in Manhattan. I can't think of a better place to build a mosque. I'm sure it will bring healing and harmony to Manhattan, as Islam does everywhere it goes.

Do I hear a hint of sarcasm here?


Anyway, on to my opinions on this. As humble as they may be.

A) It was not all Islamic individuals who bombed the World Trade Centers. It was only a few radicals who were members of a terrorist group which twists the scripture of the Qu'ran to allow for these things to be done.

That is not Muslims, that is weak minded idiots with no real hope and radical sects leading them.

B) This project is huge. And, in a time of high unemployment rates and depression, this can provide huge numbers of jobs. I am not going to be against that.

C) I don't live in NYC, so I couldn't care less what is built there.

to get grant money

Where does it say they are trying to get grants? I see that it may be paid for by bonds, but I see no mention of grants.

And, were there grants involved, do you assume these would be private grants or federally issued grants?

 

[Macx]

Originally Posted by Macx

to get grant money
​

Where does it say they are trying to get grants? I see that it may be paid for by bonds, but I see no mention of grants.

And, were there grants involved, do you assume these would be private grants or federally issued grants?

"possibly financed with bonds." was stated in print. The use of the term "community center" and the vast number of community centers financed with federal and government grants, you know precedence, kinda makes the lines pretty easy to read between unless you are willfully trying not to. Shoot, it is just short of being in neon.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

"possibly financed with bonds." was stated in print. The use of the term "community center" and the vast number of community centers financed with federal and government grants, you know precedence, kinda makes the lines pretty easy to read between unless you are willfully trying not to. Shoot, it is just short of being in neon.

Yes "financed by bonds". Not grants.
Since when has anyone doing large community projects shied away from saying they may be paid for by grants if it is the case?

And, if the building is paid for by grants for government, this will change anything how?
It will still provide large numbers of jobs, money into the economy, etc.

Were this a Christian church or Catholic cathedral, would their be so much animosity toward the plan (from society in general)?

 

[Penumbra]

I guess whoever owns the land can do what they want with it.

-Lyn

 

[Macx]

Yes "financed by bonds". Not grants.
Since when has anyone doing large community projects shied away from saying they may be paid for by grants if it is the case?

And, if the building is paid for by grants for government, this will change anything how?
It will still provide large numbers of jobs, money into the economy, etc.

Were this a Christian church or Catholic cathedral, would their be so much animosity toward the plan (from society in general)?

Why yes. If it was a Christian or Catholic .org trying to put something up . . . all the liberal gommers would be all "church and state! church and state, oh, the outrage" but since it is the Moslems "lets give them a free pass".

So taking your example, should federal &/or state money be used to build Christian Recreation centers just because it will be providing a large number of jobs and money into the economy? No? Holy double standards Batman, I think we've found a problem.

Possibly financed with bonds it says. If not bonds then __________? Grants from who? Sarah Brady? The government? For a religious building that isn't religious because it is open to people of all faiths so long as they are open to proselytization?

 

[Penumbra]

I'm not sure what the precedence is on separation of church and state in this matter. I know that government money generally is not allowed to go towards groups or centers that exclude people based on religion, but if they are religious-based but not exclusive of others, then it might be legally ok.

I'm not a big fan of government money going to something with a specific religious affiliation. If someone owns the land and pays for it, then sure. But if it's a state thing then I'm not sure I'd approve, regardless of the location. I'd have to know more information about it, but I don't have enough interest.

-Lyn

 

[Mystman]

Big difference between "near" Ground Zero, and "at" Ground Zero.

Building a mosque on the spot where the WTC used to be is a pretty insensitive move.

But that's not what the plan is. They're planning to build a mosque a few blocks away. "too close!" you might say. Well, what then is far enough? Should mosques be allowed in Lower Manhattan? In Manhattan as a whole? In New York?

 

[Eudaimonist]

But Feisal Abdul Rauf, a New York imam and a leader of the project, says the planned multi-storey Islamic centre will transform both the drab lower Manhattan street and the way Americans have looked on Muslims since 9/11.

Boasting a mosque with sports facilities, a theatre and possibly day care, the centre would be open to all visitors to demonstrate that Muslims are part of their community, not some separate element.

This sounds like a great idea to me. As long as they denounce terrorism and plan to improve their community, perhaps Americans living there will see that it is extremists who are the enemy, not necessarily moderate Muslims.

I personally would accept their olive branch, but unfortunately many Americans will probably take this gesture the wrong way.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Why yes. If it was a Christian or Catholic .org trying to put something up . . . all the liberal gommers would be all "church and state! church and state, oh, the outrage" but since it is the Moslems "lets give them a free pass".

So taking your example, should federal &/or state money be used to build Christian Recreation centers just because it will be providing a large number of jobs and money into the economy? No? Holy double standards Batman, I think we've found a problem.

Possibly financed with bonds it says. If not bonds then __________? Grants from who? Sarah Brady? The government? For a religious building that isn't religious because it is open to people of all faiths so long as they are open to proselytization?

Keep in mind, I never said I agreed with it. Because I feel government should be entirely uninvolved in anything religious in origin (which this is), as well I feel the government is overstepping bounds even by funded any (including secular based) community projects.
Just stating fact. That is all.

Grants need not be government issued, btw. So, what is to say that this would be funded by federal issue grants?


Also, Mystman has a point. This is to be built a couple blocks away. Not literally at the site.


And, out of curiosity, how is it insensitive (as I have heard some say this is, here and elsewhere) to build a mosque near the site?

 

[Fenny the Fox]

This sounds like a great idea to me. As long as they denounce terrorism and plan to improve their community, perhaps Americans living there will see that it is extremists who are the enemy, not necessarily moderate Muslims.

I personally would accept their olive branch, but unfortunately many Americans will probably take this gesture the wrong way.


eudaimonia,

Mark

^ Seconded.

 

[Macx]

Big difference between "near" Ground Zero, and "at" Ground Zero.

Building a mosque on the spot where the WTC used to be is a pretty insensitive move.

But that's not what the plan is. They're planning to build a mosque a few blocks away. "too close!" you might say. Well, what then is far enough? Should mosques be allowed in Lower Manhattan? In Manhattan as a whole? In New York?

With money from the government? Iran would be just about the right distance from NY. . . . provided it wasn't U.S. money.

 

[BarrySoetoro]

Big difference between "near" Ground Zero, and "at" Ground Zero.

Building a mosque on the spot where the WTC used to be is a pretty insensitive move.

But that's not what the plan is. They're planning to build a mosque a few blocks away. "too close!" you might say. Well, what then is far enough? Should mosques be allowed in Lower Manhattan? In Manhattan as a whole? In New York?

I think it would be a great idea to build a mosque at Ground Zero, one with twin minarets with calls to prayer 5 times a day.

 

[Chesterton]

How about a statue of Hitler on a Normandy beach? You know, just to show that not all Germans were Nazis.

 

[oobi]

This sounds like a great idea to me. As long as they denounce terrorism and plan to improve their community, perhaps Americans living there will see that it is extremists who are the enemy, not necessarily moderate Muslims.

I personally would accept their olive branch, but unfortunately many Americans will probably take this gesture the wrong way.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I agree.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I think its a good idea. Adminajad could perform the ribbon cutting ceremony and we could give Osama amnesty along with all the illegal immigrants.

 

[Ryal Kane]

How about a statue of Hitler on a Normandy beach? You know, just to show that not all Germans were Nazis.

Yes. Because a mosque is the same as a statue of Osama Bin Laden.

Frankly, while some may think of it as insensitive, a memorial to German soldiers in Normandy doesn't seem out of place to me. A lot of them probably died in what they believed was defense of their nation. It's easy to brand you enemies as pure evil, but it simply wasn't the case for many Germans even during World War 2.

In respect to the mosque, there are those who will probably be incensed by it, but they would mostly be equally offended that a mosque is being build anywhere on US soil. There are many muslim Americans. Integrating and accepting into society prevents them from being alienated, from feeling that they are being attacked. Whatever you feelings on the religion, moderate Islam is the best defense against radical Islam.

A multi faith centre might be better but less likely to ever be built.

 

[Macx]

I think building a mosque at ground zero is a great way to honor those brave muslims who gave their lives to strike a blow against the tyranny of the american government. Does anybody know how we can donate money to see this thing built?

Yeah, there is this guy in Nigeria just give your return adress and bank account numbers. He'll donate 10K for every 1K you donate, really