Should I try this Calvinist Church / What do they believe?

Valorie

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hi....

I'm hoping someone can assist me. I grew up in a non Denominational church, and was trying to get a better understanding of Calvinism. I am not an expert, and I'm not going to pretend to be, but I just want to understand a few things before I continue to attend this reformation church in my area.
From what I've heard, Calvinism promotes Predestination, which I think means God has already decided who is and who is not going to be saved. If this is truly what they believe, then...

1. How do I know if I am part of the elect?
2. I don't understand why Jesus had to die if the decision was already made

I'm not trying to argue nor am I interested in debating, I'm just trying to get an understanding, so any help or links you have would be greatly appreciated. The people seem very nice and the message is always on point.

Thanks

V
 

Dave L

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hi....

I'm hoping someone can assist me. I grew up in a non Denominational church, and was trying to get a better understanding of Calvinism. I am not an expert, and I'm not going to pretend to be, but I just want to understand a few things before I continue to attend this reformation church in my area.
From what I've heard, Calvinism promotes Predestination, which I think means God has already decided who is and who is not going to be saved. If this is truly what they believe, then...

1. How do I know if I am part of the elect?
2. I don't understand why Jesus had to die if the decision was already made

I'm not trying to argue nor am I interested in debating, I'm just trying to get an understanding, so any help or links you have would be greatly appreciated. The people seem very nice and the message is always on point.

Thanks

V
If you believe in Christ, it's because he saved you. You could not believe in any true sense had he not.
 
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athenken

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One way to get some assurance is to realize there are some things you now know that you would not have otherwise known had the Holy Spirit not imparted that knowledge to you. Every gift you have and every blessing is from God.

It is one of the ways He keeps us humble.

For good reformed (Calvinist) churches you could look for one within the following denominations:
PCA (Presbyterian Church of America)
OPC (Orthodox Presbyterian Church)
URC (United Reformed Church)

There are some others, but these are a good start.
 
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Josheb

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hi....

I'm hoping someone can assist me. I grew up in a non Denominational church, and was trying to get a better understanding of Calvinism. I am not an expert, and I'm not going to pretend to be, but I just want to understand a few things before I continue to attend this reformation church in my area.
From what I've heard, Calvinism promotes Predestination, which I think means God has already decided who is and who is not going to be saved. If this is truly what they believe, then...

1. How do I know if I am part of the elect?
2. I don't understand why Jesus had to die if the decision was already made

I'm not trying to argue nor am I interested in debating, I'm just trying to get an understanding, so any help or links you have would be greatly appreciated. The people seem very nice and the message is always on point.

Thanks

V
My apologies for this facile response, Valorie, but I think your inquiries are important but I don't have the time to respond with much detail. Let me encourage you to read the Westminster Confession of Faith, especially Article III. There you will find that Calvinism is not Robot Theology. There you will find what God ordained from eternity He did

1) without being the Author of sin,
2) Without causing violence to human will,
3) Without doing violence to the contingency of secondary causes.

In other words, God did not cause sin. Humans have real (but limited) volitional agency. Secondary causes in creation do exist.


That is Calvinism. Strict determinism is not Calvinism.

I'll check back later. If others have met your need I will affirm those posts. If not then I will endeavor to answer your questions. In closing I will ad this: you know you are saved because God saved you and you know that by faith, faith that changes you to the point of faithfulness, obedience, and good works. You may experience doubt but doubt does not negate the price God paid for your life.
 
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Dave L

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Thank you for your reply, but how does one know for sure. Some days I feel good about myself and am constantly doing good, but what assurance do I have?
We have ups and downs but God gives faith to those he saves. We can strengthen it by reading the bible. I'm a Calvinist and have great peace of mind and happiness from reading the bible every day. I've been doing this for years.
 
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Valorie

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So here's the thing...with my traditional non denominational beliefs, I have faith that if I believe, repent, etc....I will be saved. With Calvinism, it seems to be you have to HOPE that you're saved, it like you never really know, because we do have good days and bad days. Sometimes we have good months and bad months....lol. How do you really know? Sorrry for being redundant, just trying to figure it all out.
 
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Dave L

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So here's the thing...with my traditional non denominational beliefs, I have faith that if I believe, repent, etc....I will be saved. With Calvinism, it seems to be you have to HOPE that you're saved, it like you never really know, because we do have good days and bad days. Sometimes we have good months and bad months....lol. How do you really know? Sorrry for being redundant, just trying to figure it all out.
You know God saved you because he gave you faith. If you try saving yourself with positive thinking, you'll perish.
 
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wonderkins

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I grew up pentecostal. I never had more assurance of my salvation than when I learned calvinist theology. A lot of the pentecostal/charismatic churches are borderline works based in my experience.

If you are saved, you are the elect. John 6:44 says:
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

The way that reads speaks to the sovereignty of God.

I feel that if you believe some people will go heaven and some to hell, then you already believe in election.

Romans chapters 8 and 9 is a good help with assurance.

Ephesians 2 (especially verses 8 and 9) is great help in realizing we had nothing to do with our salvation.

Election can be a hard doctrine to accept. I struggled myself. My advice is to not focus so much on that as it is clearly causing trouble for you. Learn the basics. You will come to understand and most likely accept it. You already have to deal with the fact that the Bible talks about it.

One of the greatest joys in my life was when I finally actually understood that the Lord saved me and I had nothing to do with it. Talk to a calvinistic pastor and ask those questions. He should be able to explain it.
 
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Hazelelponi

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So here's the thing...with my traditional non denominational beliefs, I have faith that if I believe, repent, etc....I will be saved. With Calvinism, it seems to be you have to HOPE that you're saved, it like you never really know, because we do have good days and bad days. Sometimes we have good months and bad months....lol. How do you really know? Sorrry for being redundant, just trying to figure it all out.

Do you have faith God's Word is true? That is what gives you certainty, not how you "feel", but what you know of God's character....

We know that God is faithful, even when we lack faithfulness... We know that we are saved by Grace, not by our own works.

Do you need to repent of sin? Of course.. Do you need to believe that Christ rose from the dead, and submit to His Lordship? Absolutely...

We just believe that God drew you in, and that through grace we are kept... if you believe (a continual, continuing present belief) and that believe has faith in Him and a change in your overall relation to sin then you are saved.

 
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St_Worm2

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Hello @Valorie, I see that you are brand new around here, so first off, WELCOME TO CF :wave:

As other Calvinists have already told you above, we cannot know whether someone is one of God's "elect" until they've come to saving faith in Christ. So the real question for Christians (in general) is actually the same, how do we know if we are true believers/true Christians, or not :scratch: After all, St. James tells us this about the demons in his Epistle,

James 2
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

We know that Satan and his demons are not/will not be saved, and we also know from the Lord that there will be many on the Day of Judgment who both claim and have believed themselves to be Christians all along, but Jesus tells them plainly at the Great White Throne that they are not/never were Christians (when He said to them, "I ~never~ knew you") .. e.g. Matthew 7:22-23 (and He goes on later in Matthew to tell us that the church is home to many who are unbelievers, and that it will continue to be so until the end of the age .. e.g. Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, when His angels finally separate the wheat from the tares).

So again, looking for/finding assurance that you are part of God's "elect" (or not), is arrived at in the very same way that you look for/find assurance that you are "saved" (or not).

Would you like to talk about the ways we do that, the things that we look for in our lives to have assurance that we are true believers (and are therefore, elect)?

We are, in fact, admonished to do just that .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5, to be assured, that is, that we are truly in the faith/in Christ. (Calvinist A. W. Pink tells us one of the ways that we know in the quote of his that you'll find at the bottom of this post)

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

--David

1 Thessalonians 5
23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body
be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

You asked for a link, and I believe that this will be a very good one for you (at least as a place to start) as it will answer most of your questions about election (Dr. Sproul was a theologian and professor, and he was also the senior pastor of St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Orlando until his death a couple of years ago, just FYI): Chosen by God by R.C. Sproul

If you prefer to read (rather than watch/listen), I recommend his book called Chosen By God instead, as there is more in it than there is in the video (it was a book that I could not put down until I finished it, BTW :)).

Finally, if you are an Amazon Prime member, search the word "Sproul" in Prime Video and you will find quite a few of Dr. Sproul's teaching series there that you can watch for free, including "Chosen By God" and "What is Reformed Theology (Calvinism)".

quote-it-is-not-the-absence-of-sin-but-the-grieving-over-it-which-distinguishes-the-child-arthur-w-pink-70-74-09.jpg
 
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St. Helens

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Josheb

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Hi Valorie,

I haven't read through the posts thoroughly but Dave L is correct. athenken's opening statement is also correct.
1. How do I know if I am part of the elect?
I would encourage you to keep it simple. Don't get tied down by words like "elect." These are sometimes doctrinal terms and your inquiry is a heart issue. If I understand correctly then you'd simply like some sense of confidence that you are what you believe you are and do what you say you do.Think of "elect" simply as "chosen." God chose you. He loves you :sunglasses:.

And that I would suggest to you is evidence of your salvation. If you'll give 1 Peter 3:21 then you'll note the pledge of a clear conscience is one of the purposes and results of salvation, of having been washed with the Holy Spirit. That doesn't happen to those still dead and enslaved in sin.

One part of your inquiry has to do with your ability to know something you cannot wholly know. You cannot know all that the Infinite Creator is doing in your life as a finite creature. You cannot know the future. The facts of scripture are that salvation is a past condition (you have been saved), and a current condition (you are saved), and salvation is a future condition not fully realized until you reach the other side of the grave (we will be raised incorruptible and immortal).

This then is that tricky little part about faith. We are saved by grace through faith. In other words, we are saved by grace, not by faith. Faith is not causal. God is THE causal agent in salvation. This is fundamental Calvinism. Calvinism is a monergistic doctrine of salvation. The alternative is synergism. Those are the doctrines that hold the sinners volition as causal in some way prior to regeneration. In Calvinism we are converted from death to life solely by the work of God and it is entirely by grace. Undeserved. Unearned. It is because we have been regenerated that we have faith, not the other way around. It is only because of regeneration that we can do goods works. So your faith is evidence of salvation.

You do not know in the classic epistemological sense of human knowing but you have evidence.

Remember faith is the assurance of that which is unseen (Heb. 11).

The other part of this equation is the truth that it is God who works in us to save us. He is almighty. Nothing can defeat God. That means if God has hold of you then nothing can wrest you from his divine almighty grasp. Synergists sometimes argue God may let go of you if you deny him but those whose lives He has purchased with His Son's blood are not ones who He lets go of. For Him to do so would be for Him to make worthless the purchase of your life. God is not Walmart. He does not take his purchases back. He paid an egregious price for you to demonstrate His love for you.

He loves you, Valorie.

Just sit and feel that for a moment.

Know that nothing can remove you from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. Know it by faith.
2. I don't understand why Jesus had to die if the decision was already made
This is a somewhat more demanding question. One that goes beyond the matter of salvation. The short answer is that Jesus is the means of salvation so whatever decisions God made to save you or me they were decided in the context of Christ crucified and resurrected. According to John 14:6 he and he alone is the only way to the Father.

A longer answer covers a lot more terrain, but let's start with 1 Peter 1:19-20. There you will read a statement that says Jesus was foreknown before the foundation of the world as the perfect blemish-free sacrifice. So his sacrifice was decided upon before a single atom was spoken into existence. This was decided before a single human ever drew breath, before a single sin had ever been committed.




My apologies but I'm being summoned to dinner. I'll return when I can, but that might not be until tomorrow. In the interim if you have further questions do please ask.


You can have confidence you are saved because your life evidences change and God is almighty.
 
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BBAS 64

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hi....

I'm hoping someone can assist me. I grew up in a non Denominational church, and was trying to get a better understanding of Calvinism. I am not an expert, and I'm not going to pretend to be, but I just want to understand a few things before I continue to attend this reformation church in my area.
From what I've heard, Calvinism promotes Predestination, which I think means God has already decided who is and who is not going to be saved. If this is truly what they believe, then...

1. How do I know if I am part of the elect?
2. I don't understand why Jesus had to die if the decision was already made

I'm not trying to argue nor am I interested in debating, I'm just trying to get an understanding, so any help or links you have would be greatly appreciated. The people seem very nice and the message is always on point.

Thanks

V


Good Day, Valorie

I agree with this recommendation "What is Reformed Theology (Calvinism)". Also have you read the statement of faith of the church?

Found it on Youtube:


Predestination is a word found in Scripture it is a verb (action) that God "does:

Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

it Means:

pro-or-id'-zo
From G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, that is, (figuratively) predetermine: - determine before, ordain, predestinate.


I will help with #2 Christ had to die in order that the just wrath of God would be satisfied by offering Himself for our guilt, and being made sin for us.

In Him,

Bill
 
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JM

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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Notice "and that" (in the Greek) sums up everything that came before including grace and faith. We must believe. We must repent. Both belief and repentance are given by God, they do not spring from our own fallen, sinful self. "Calvinism" is nothing less than the Gospel in the strictest sense and Reformed theology is a full orbed, systematic expression of biblical truth.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Notice "and that" (in the Greek) sums up everything that came before including grace and faith. We must believe. We must repent. Both belief and repentance are given by God, they do not spring from our own fallen, sinful self. "Calvinism" is nothing less than the Gospel in the strictest sense and Reformed theology is a full orbed, systematic expression of biblical truth.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

After attending many churches during my lifetime from my study of the Bible I always thought the above to be true but, never heard it explained and taught so well until my wife and I started attending Reformed Churches.
Straight From The Book.
Communion also taken every week.
M-Bob
 
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Josheb

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Valorie,

BBAS 64's contribution is very good. R. C. Sproul is one of the best resources for understanding the Calvinist pov. His website Ligonier.org is loaded with a wealth of articles on a wide array of topics written from a Calvinist pov. Monergism.org is another.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hello again @Valorie, if you or anyone else is interested, here is what Calvinism teaches, in part, about Perseverance and Assurance. These two excerpts (w/Scriptural proofs) are from the Westminster Standards/Westminster Confession of Faith.

Chapter XVII – Of the Perseverance of the Saints

1. They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.a

a. John 10:28-29; Phil 1:6; 1 Pet 1:5, 9; 2 Pet 1:10; 1 John 3:9.

2. This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;a upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ;b the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them;c and the nature of the covenant of grace:d from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.e

a. Jer 31:3; 2 Tim 2:18-19. • b. Luke 22:32; John 17:11, 24; Heb 7:25; 9:12-15; 10:10, 14; 13:20-21; Rom 8:33-39. • c. John 14:16-17; 1 John 2:27; 3:9. • d. Jer 32:40. • e. John 10:28; 2 Thes 3:3; 1 John 2:19.

3. Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;a and for a time continue therein:b whereby they incur God’s displeasure,c and grieve his Holy Spirit;d come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts;e have their hearts hardened,f and their consciences wounded;g hurt and scandalize others,h and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.i

a. Mat 26:70, 72, 74. • b. Psa 51 title with v. 14. • c. 2 Sam 11:27; Isa 64:5, 7, 9. • d. Eph 4:30. • e. Psa 51:8, 10, 12; Song 5:2-4, 6; Rev 2:4. • f. Isa 63:17; Mark 6:52; 16:14. • g. Psa 32:3-4; 51:8. • h. 2 Sam 12:14. • i. Psa 89:31-32; 1 Cor 11:32.

Chapter XVIII – Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation

1. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of God and estate of salvation,a which hope of theirs shall perish:b yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him, may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace,c and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.d

a. Deut 29:19; Job 8:13-14; Micah 3:11; John 8:41. • b. Mat 7:22-23. • c. 1 John 2:3; 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 5:13. • d. Rom 5:2, 5.

2. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope;a but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,b the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,c the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God:d which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.e

a. Heb 6:11, 19. • b. Heb 6:17-18. • c. 2 Cor 1:12; 2 Pet 1:4-5, 10-11; 1 John 2:3; 3:14. • d. Rom 8:15-16. • e. Eph 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21-22.

3. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it:a yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.b And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure;c that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience,d the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness.e

a. Psa 88 throughout; Psa 77:1-12; Isa 50:10; Mark 9:24; 1 John 5:13. • b. 1 Cor 2:12; Eph 3:17-19; Heb 6:11-12; 1 John 4:13. • c. 2 Pet 1:10. • d. Rom 5:1-2, 5; 14:17; 15:13; Eph 1:3-4; Psa 4:6-7; 119:32. • e. Psa 130:4; Rom 6:1-2; 8:1, 12; 2 Cor 7:1; Titus 2:11-12, 14; 1 John 1:6-7; 2:1-2; 3:2-3.

4. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience, and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God’s withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light:a yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may in due time be revived,b and by the which, in the meantime, they are supported from utter despair.c

a. Psa 31:22; 51:8, 12, 14; 77:1-10; 88 throughout; Song 5:2-3, 6; Isa 50:10; Mat 26:69-72; Eph 4:30-31. • b. Job 13:15; Psa 51:8, 12; 73:15; Isa 50:10; Luke 22:32; 1 John 3:9. • c. Psa 22:1; 88 throughout; Isa 54:7-10; Jer 32:40; Micah 7:7-9.
--David
 
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Josheb

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One way to get some assurance is to realize there are some things you now know that you would not have otherwise known had the Holy Spirit not imparted that knowledge to you. Every gift you have and every blessing is from God.

It is one of the ways He keeps us humble.

For good reformed (Calvinist) churches you could look for one within the following denominations:
PCA (Presbyterian Church of America)
OPC (Orthodox Presbyterian Church)
URC (United Reformed Church)

There are some others, but these are a good start.
Add EPC (Evangelical Presbyterian Church)
 
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