Should I convert to Oriental Orthodoxy?

[Barney2.0]

Ever since my encounter with the Syriac Church a while back and the kindness shown to me in a fleeting moment, my opinion of the Oriental Orthodox changed a lot these past few months along with many of my Christological ideas about the nature of Christ. So I feel quite stuck, I’m only planning on studying Christianity as much as possible before I can leave Saudi to formally convert, I’m trying to take in as much knowledge as possible before I can leave in about less then two years from now. I flaunted Catholicism for a while as most notice, but I came to the conclusion that it couldn’t be reconciled to my personal views of how the Church should look like, nor did many of the doctrines of the Latins make sense unless I forced them to, however my main attraction to it was due to its grandeur more then anything else if we’re going to be completely honest here. My heart and theology however was always Eastern, but after my miraculous encounter with the Syrians I’m not sure if Chalcedon is quite legitimate anymore, and after reading Pope Shenouda’s book on the nature of Christ, I have to say in all honesty it made more sense then the Chalcedonian definition of Christ and I believe it to be more consistent in explanation, but I don’t want to make the wrong decision here or accidentally reject a Council that’s Ecumenical, I’m trying to devour as many sources as possible on the subject, but I’m tired and I’m asking God to guide me to true Orthodoxy every day and keep me away from any wrong or heretical ideas. So any help would leave me most grateful.

 

[HardHead]

after reading Pope Shenouda’s book on the nature of Christ

What book are you talking about? Do you have a title?

 

[Basil the Great]

Might does not always make right in the eyes of God nor does the largest group or groups necessarily = the best way. Would it not be something if the smallest of the four Christian groups were to be the closest to God of the four?

 

[zippy2006]

Ever since my encounter with the Syriac Church a while back and the kindness shown to me in a fleeting moment, my opinion of the Oriental Orthodox changed a lot these past few months along with many of my Christological ideas about the nature of Christ. So I feel quite stuck, I’m only planning on studying Christianity as much as possible before I can leave Saudi to formally convert, I’m trying to take in as much knowledge as possible before I can leave in about less then two years from now. I flaunted Catholicism for a while as most notice, but I came to the conclusion that it couldn’t be reconciled to my personal views of how the Church should look like, nor did many of the doctrines of the Latins make sense unless I forced them to, however my main attraction to it was due to its grandeur more then anything else if we’re going to be completely honest here. My heart and theology however was always Eastern, but after my miraculous encounter with the Syrians I’m not sure if Chalcedon is quite legitimate anymore, and after reading Pope Shenouda’s book on the nature of Christ, I have to say in all honesty it made more sense then the Chalcedonian definition of Christ and I believe it to be more consistent in explanation, but I don’t want to make the wrong decision here or accidentally reject a Council that’s Ecumenical, I’m trying to devour as many sources as possible on the subject, but I’m tired and I’m asking God to guide me to true Orthodoxy every day and keep me away from any wrong or heretical ideas. So any help would leave me most grateful.

I would continue to study and explore until you leave the country, and then after relocating continue to study for at least 6-8 months before making a firm decision. Don't let a conversion coincide too closely with a relocation. Whatever you choose, let it be based on much more than 'a fleeting moment.' Also, try to find parallel voices. If you read a non-Chalcedonian book by a learned theologian-pastor, try to find a similar book on Christ from a Chalcedonian perspective, ideally from another learned theologian-pastor.

 

[~Anastasia~]

This isn't the place (being a congregational forum) to point you in any direction away from that community. And I will only say that I am always greatly pleased by how much the EO and OO have in common, and fervently hope for reunification (which of all the groups I think is most possible).

Other than that, it's not my place to comment theologically.

I would only say that a decision can't (or shouldn't) be based too much on how one was pleasantly received. I did use that to decide which EO community I would be a part of. But we could be kindly received by even a non-Christian cult and that would not make them right.

I'm only saying don't make that a great part of your decision.

For myself, there are OO teachers on spirituality that I greatly admire and enjoy and have learned a lot from.

But then I don't occupy myself overmuch with our particular differences.

 

[Barney2.0]

This isn't the place (being a congregational forum) to point you in any direction away from that community. And I will only say that I am always greatly pleased by how much the EO and OO have in common, and fervently hope for reunification (which of all the groups I think is most possible).

Other than that, it's not my place to comment theologically.

I would only say that a decision can't (or shouldn't) be based too much on how one was pleasantly received. I did use that to decide which EO community I would be a part of. But we could be kindly received by even a non-Christian cult and that would not make them right.

I'm only saying don't make that a great part of your decision.

For myself, there are OO teachers on spirituality that I greatly admire and enjoy and have learned a lot from.

But then I don't occupy myself overmuch with our particular differences.

Well my inquiry into Oriental Orthodoxy came after I was well received by the Syrians, and after reading into its doctrines these past few months, I can find nothing Un-Orthodox in all honesty. I’m trying to read on Chalcedon as much as possible to see if the nature of the split was infact justified or not, any other help from Chalcedonian Eastern Orthodox here or Non Chalcedonian Oriental Orthodox would be appreciated aswell.

 

[Barney2.0]

What book are you talking about? Do you have a title?

The Nature of Christ by Pope Shenouda lll:

https://www.copticchurch.net/topics/theology/nature_of_christ.pdf

 

[~Anastasia~]

Well my inquiry into Oriental Orthodoxy came after I was well received by the Syrians, and after reading into its doctrines these past few months, I can find nothing Un-Orthodox in all honesty. I’m trying to read on Chalcedon as much as possible to see if the nature of the split was infact justified or not, any other help from Chalcedonian Eastern Orthodox here or Non Chalcedonian Oriental Orthodox would be appreciated aswell.

What I can say is that in every encounter with OO persons, I find nothing un-Orthodox about them either (speaking from the point of view of a layperson). It does come down to Chalcedon in the first. And understanding the difference there (or trying to) can make your head spin.

I had to look partially to everything within the EO after the split, and I did not want to reject all of it.

Personally, it's not my place to judge, but I would not be willing to say that God is not with the OO.

But I could not reject so much that comes along with the EO history. That doesn't keep me from benefiting from the spiritual teachings of the OO. We are so closely aligned that is still easily possible. (Just as to a much lesser degree I can benefit from some bit of wisdom that might come from a Catholic or Protestant source, though due to greater differences in theology, much I would have to outright reject.)

I doubt I'm being helpful. The particular questions you are asking were the hardest ones for me, and came at the end of my seeking.

 

[HardHead]

The Nature of Christ by Pope Shenouda lll

Thanks. I'll have a look.

 

[dzheremi]

It should probably be pointed out here that the Chalcedonians had their necessary correction of what we were originally worried about at Chalcedon (that it was in some sense a covert victory for the Nestorians, who keep in mind at that time the entire church would have just dealt with a few decades prior, and who were still around harassing the Orthodox through Chalcedon and afterwards in places like Iran and elsewhere which were outside of the Empire) at the Second Council of Constantinople in 553. This is also the council, if I recall correctly, that admitted the "mia physis" phraseology of HH St. Cyril, which was and is our reason for rejected the sloppiness of the Tome, as being acceptable so long as it is not understood in a Eutychian fashion.

Of course it would not have been understood in a Eutychian fashion by any among us by that time, because much earlier than that, HH St. Timothy II, the direct successor to HH St. Dioscorus, presided over the Third Council of Ephesus in 475, together with an estimated 500-700 bishops. At this council, Eutyches was anathematized by name and all who held to his heresy which destroyed the human nature of Christ. We can tell this even outside of this council by looking at the preserved letters of HH Pope Timothy (trans. by Ebied and Wickham, 1970), because one of them is addressed to a group of Eutychians in Antioch (I think? Sadly, I lost my copy of the journal in which the translations appeared in a recent move some months ago), telling them that if they wish to have communion with us, they must affirm that Christ shares the one human nature with us. This would be a mighty odd thing to require if the OO or the Copts in particular somehow agreed with Eutyches/Eutychianism!

So I get the impression that the real roots of the division between the OO and the Chalcedonians today is not so much the original Christological debate, but rather some later developments that perhaps follow from that. I have said both publicly and privately here on CF that it seems to come down to our different ways of viewing councils in general, if I recall correctly Fr. Matt on the EO board once wrote that it comes down to the sixth (not fourth or fifth) council, etc.

 

[archer75]

Prayers for you, @Al Masihi. May the Lord guide your search.