Should flag burners lose citizenship?

[GoldenBoy89]

They aren't "saying" anything. That's the pt. Coupled with the fact that you don't have a clue as to what they are saying either then you can conclude burning the flag isn't a protest.

Then why complain about it? You're saying yourself that it is not protest. So what is your complaint about it?

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Then why complain about it? You're saying yourself that it is not protest. So what is your complaint about it?

But burning the American flag is one form of a protest. I see it as a protest against 240 years of oppression, colonization and the encroachment of European settlers and their descendants here upon tribal land that was forcibly taken through broken treaties, forced removals and attempted annihilation of my ancestors. I see that flag representing all that was lost.

 

[JGG]

Ahhh! You guys are taking too long. Here's the solution: Burning flags should be legal, but owning, possessing or flying flags should be prohibited. There, flag crisis solved. You're welcome. What's next?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Can we use foul language now? This changes everything!

[Staff Edit]

You have lied to me.

Good one!

 

[Cearbhall]

They aren't "saying" anything. That's the pt. Coupled with the fact that you don't have a clue as to what they are saying either then you can conclude burning the flag isn't a protest.

So what's the problem?

 

[JGG]

They aren't "saying" anything. That's the pt. Coupled with the fact that you don't have a clue as to what they are saying either then you can conclude burning the flag isn't a protest.

What if I burn the flag because there was a spider on it? Do I lose my citizenship for that?

 

[TLK Valentine]

So what's the problem?

The problem is that whatever they're doing, the government doesn't approve... and we live in a country where you're not allowed to do anything the government doesn't app-- oh, wait.

...yeah, what is the problem, Louis?

 

[TLK Valentine]

But burning the American flag is one form of a protest. I see it as a protest against 240 years of oppression, colonization and the encroachment of European settlers and their descendants here upon tribal land that was forcibly taken through broken treaties, forced removals and attempted annihilation of my ancestors. I see that flag representing all that was lost.

"Lost"? You're too kind. All that was stolen.

Watch Standing Rock Tribes Cheer As Vets Apologize On Behalf Of U.S. Government

“Many of us, me particularly, are from the units that have hurt you over the many years. We came. We fought you. We took your land. We signed treaties that we broke. We stole minerals from your sacred hills. We blasted the faced of our presidents onto your sacred mountain. When we took still more land and then we took your children and then we tried to make your language and we tried to eliminate your language that God gave you, and the Creator gave you. We didn’t respect you, we polluted your Earth, we’ve hurt you in so many ways but we’ve come to say that we are sorry. We are at your service and we beg for your forgiveness.”

 

[LouisBooth]

Except that "protests" are covered by free speech

and you've already shown that it can't be protest because you have no clue what it says nor can it be conveyed.

And the act of removing a benefit

No, you're REMOVING a reward for a behavior. That's positive reinforcement. Government beneifts, as it's been clearly stated is a privilege, not a right.

 

[LouisBooth]

So if you were a missionary to an Amazon tribe and they saw you taking communion would they know why you were doing that without an explanation

Yes, it's meaningless to them. I think you've proven my point here for me.

 

[Hank77]

Yes, it's meaningless to them. I think you've proven my point here for me.

???
Who is 'them' in your statement above?

 

[LouisBooth]

???
Who is 'them' in your statement above?

the observers. The tribal people you indicated.

 

[Hank77]

the observers. The tribal people you indicated.

Ok
So for them = you or I, to understand why someone is burning a flag we would have to listen to their explanation as to why they are doing so.

What was your point that I seem to have missed?

I also asked how their 'malicious' (your description not mine) act of flag burning harms you? Who is it malicious against if not you?

 

[TLK Valentine]

and you've already shown that it can't be protest because you have no clue what it says nor can it be conveyed.

If that's the case, what's the problem?

No, you're REMOVING a reward for a behavior. That's positive reinforcement.

You consider welfare to be a reward for a behavior? what behavior are you rewarding?

. Government beneifts, as it's been clearly stated is a privilege, not a right.

And revoking those privileges in order to punish or discourage a behavior (in this case, burning a flag) is a textbook example of negative reinforcement.

I spelled it out and gave you a link, and you got it wrong again. That takes talent.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

and you've already shown that it can't be protest because you have no clue what it says nor can it be conveyed.

Should every protester run their protests by you before hand to see if they qualify as a valid form of protest?

Whether the point of a protest is understood by anyone or not doesn't change the right to do it.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

"Lost"? You're too kind. All that was stolen.

Yes, I was being kind. But there is a deep sense of loss for what was stolen. I am reminded of that when I see the American flag. But it is not just about the land that was forcibly taken through broken treaties, forced removals and the attempted annihilation, but it is also about the loss of true freedom and liberties my ancestors once had before the encroachment of the European settlers and their descendants. I would like to share this video because I think it is relevant to our discussion.

Watch Standing Rock Tribes Cheer As Vets Apologize On Behalf Of U.S. Government

“Many of us, me particularly, are from the units that have hurt you over the many years. We came. We fought you. We took your land. We signed treaties that we broke. We stole minerals from your sacred hills. We blasted the faces of our presidents onto your sacred mountain. When we took still more land and then we took your children and then we tried to make your language and we tried to eliminate your language that God gave you, and the Creator gave you. We didn’t respect you, we polluted your Earth, we’ve hurt you in so many ways but we’ve come to say that we are sorry. We are at your service and we beg for your forgiveness.”

I cannot watch this video without crying.

 

[JGG]

???
Who is 'them' in your statement above?

Muslims I think.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I would just like to point out that, of the participants on this thread, one of the two most vocal proponents of an anti-flag burning law claimed that the right to protest is not guaranteed by the Constitution, and the other one considers welfare to be a reward given for good behavior.

Multiply this by a couple of million, and it's suddenly no surprise to anyone how we ended up with Donald Trump at the helm.

 

[JGG]

I would just like to point out that, of the participants on this thread, one of the two most vocal proponents of an anti-flag burning law claimed that the right to protest is not guaranteed by the Constitution, and the other one considers welfare to be a reward given for good behavior.

Multiply this by a couple of million, and it's suddenly no surprise to anyone how we ended up with Donald Trump at the helm.

There are actually only 42 states. One is just a big block of cheese, and the other 7 are holograms!

 

[Chesterton]

Did you use your right of free speech to voice your views on how you felt the government was operating?

Sure, in casual conversation or on this forum. Stuff like that.

Right... because, as you said in the other thread which you brought up, I have no Constitutional right to protest... correct?

Correct.

So accepting defeat and slinking off is the only government-approved response, amirite?

Response to what, an election?

Nobody except the Founding Fathers:

Sure sounds like a textbook definition of "protest" to me.

[staff edited]

You said it wasn't okay to disrespect the flag... is it legal to disrespect people?

I don't think I actually said that.