Should Christians Walk in the God's Ways?

[christianforumsuser]

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.


Are you born of Him because your neighbor says "you're a cool decent guy"
If they say you practice righteousness just because you don't smoke or do alcohol, nor boast to their sight? Such people act arrogant to me when nobody's looking. If I had money they'd treat me kindly. Are they not under the Law and boast of it in flesh but do they have the Holy Spirit? They don't seem like new creations, just high in the world.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Was he referencing this
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 2 - New King James Version
Verse 7
7 Brethren,a]">[a] I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.b]">[b]

I guess you'll have to ask him. But, if he WAS referencing that verse, he'll need to read ahead to the next verse where Yeshua again says He's giving us a NEW commandment.

8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Fall short
repent
over and over yet again
trust in Christ Alone
not the one in the mirror
finish the good race.
M-Bob

 

[Mountainmanbob]

The 12.5% in this poll should possibly locate a new church to attend?
M-Bob

 

[christianforumsuser]

The Bible might seem hard to understand without the right lens and key
One might say it looks to them as if Jesus contradicted Himself

Someone with worldly values and their own thoughts and no ear, but lots of worldly support and comfort, might say "my brother doesn't love me...look...even as he says so or not..."
How is someone to measure love

And so there's a disagreement
While someone does what one calls evil and disrespectful and war goes
Someone says "why don't you forgive me" the other says "why don't you apologize"
And they say "well sooooorry then", "that's not an apology", "ok.....sorry"
As much as someone says it they don't mean it. It's only tricks to get what they want, people don't repent much.
If someone sees opportunity to sin or doesn't see a reason to repent...as if they're righteous with no sin to send them to hell...or someone isn't powerful or rich so why be nice to them
It's much easier to be nice to disposable relationships...loyal idiots...neighbors and strangers who don't know you enough to hold a grudge

If someone is able to confess to God but not apologize to man sincerely due to pride and ego...are they anything but a fraud...as much as they can fool their church buddies
If they were honest they might say "but you upset me" and perhaps there could be peace as both would apologize for their part. But people have so many worldly treasures

 

[SAAN]

According to the Scriptures, we are to follow Yeshua's commandments since the Old Covenant Law of Moses has been made null and void in the Believer's life. These are the commandments we are to keep.



You seem to be confused here. In response to you saying Yeshua gave us no NEW commands, I posted some of those very NEW commands that He gave. There are more. I posted to show you that you were wrong when you said Yeshua did not give us new commands.

These are what we are to be following if we love Him. He tells us how to walk, how to be obedience, that is by following all of HIS commands of the New Covenant. These commands include the specific sins you reference. I encourage you to read the New Covenant and you will see that the New Covenant commands cover all these sins and more.

As far as what other people do, ALL have sinned, even you, and we ALL need Yeshua's forgiveness by grace. The Law of Moses cannot do that, only Yeshua can.

God (Yahweh) said to Love one another and Jesus says the same thing, except to love one another in the same manner in which he loved us, so he took the same commands and made a much deeper meaning of it. Even John says the same.

1 John 2:7-11
7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining. 9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister[a] is still in the darkness. 10 Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. 11 But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.

What was the old command?
Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Its not the law of Moses, its Gods laws administered through Moses, just like they were repeated by Jesus, the disciples and Paul in the New Testament.

God gave plenty of grace in the OT, the book of Hebrews just states the blood of animals could never fully atone for their sins and thats where Jesus blood does atone for our sins once and for all. You can find examples of grace with Noah, Abraham, Lot, Moses, David and more. The law was to point out our sins and show you a need for Christ. We have grace because we break the laws of God. Sin didnt end at the cross, as people still sin even after they are saved and John states sin is transgression of the law.

You are Messianic:
Do you keep the Sabbath?
Do you keep the Dietary Laws?
Do you keep the Feast Days?

 

[FreeAtLast]

God (Yahweh) said to Love one another and Jesus says the same thing, except to love one another in the same manner in which he loved us, so he took the same commands and made a much deeper meaning of it. Even John says the same.

Yet, Yeshua said with His OWN words that it was a NEW command. Why is that? because His commands under the NEW covenant go deeper than the Law of Moses ever did.

1 John 2:7-11
7 Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard.

8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining. 9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister[a] is still in the darkness. 10 Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. 11 But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.

My reply is for you to not discount Yeshua's OWN words that this is NEW, as in it is not the same as the Old.

Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining. 9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister[a] is still in the darkness. 10 Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. 11 But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.

Its not the law of Moses, its Gods laws administered through Moses, just like they were repeated by Jesus, the disciples and Paul in the New Testament.

The Holy Word of G-d calls them "the Law of Moses" so how can you say that is not true? Yeshua Himself called them as such. Do you not believe the Scriptures? Do you argue with G-d?


Luke 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."


Acts 13:39
and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Malachi 4:4
"Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING " God is not concerned about oxen, is He?

God gave plenty of grace in the OT, the book of Hebrews just states the blood of animals could never fully atone for their sins and thats where Jesus blood does atone for our sins once and for all. You can find examples of grace with Noah, Abraham, Lot, Moses, David and more. The law was to point out our sins and show you a need for Christ. We have grace because we break the laws of God. Sin didnt end at the cross, as people still sin even after they are saved and John states sin is transgression of the law.

Actually, grace, was not the presiding justice under the Law of Moses, judgement was. Yeshua brought us grace by fulfilling the Law of Moses and completing it, freeing us from the judgement of it. Nothing more is required of us pertaining to the Law of Moses since Yeshua completed it. THAT is grace.

You are Messianic:
Do you keep the Sabbath?
Do you keep the Dietary Laws?
Do you keep the Feast Days?

I am a Messianic JEW. Are you?
People misuse the term "Messianic" and twist it to mean different things. The term came from Messianic Judaism, that means a Jew found Yeshua as Messiah and is born again. Then they are a Messianic Jew. The FIRST Believers were Messianic Jews - the Apostles, the first church. Others took that term and misapplied it.

What I do regarding Shabbat, dietary laws and Feast days is personal choice and between me and G-d. I will say that I do NOT believe adhering to the Law of Moses is required for ANY born again Believer, but they have the freedom to observe any or all of it that they choose, as it is a blessing. But it certainly not what you Law-keepers claim it to be and not required any longer.

 

[SAAN]

Yet, Yeshua said with His OWN words that it was a NEW command. Why is that? because His commands under the NEW covenant go deeper than the Law of Moses ever did.



My reply is for you to not discount Yeshua's OWN words that this is NEW, as in it is not the same as the Old.

Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining. 9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister[a] is still in the darkness. 10 Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. 11 But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.



The Holy Word of G-d calls them "the Law of Moses" so how can you say that is not true? Yeshua Himself called them as such. Do you not believe the Scriptures? Do you argue with G-d?


Luke 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."


Acts 13:39
and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Malachi 4:4
"Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING " God is not concerned about oxen, is He?



Actually, grace, was not the presiding justice under the Law of Moses, judgement was. Yeshua brought us grace by fulfilling the Law of Moses and completing it, freeing us from the judgement of it. Nothing more is required of us pertaining to the Law of Moses since Yeshua completed it. THAT is grace.



I am a Messianic JEW. Are you?
People misuse the term "Messianic" and twist it to mean different things. The term came from Messianic Judaism, that means a Jew found Yeshua as Messiah and is born again. Then they are a Messianic Jew. The FIRST Believers were Messianic Jews - the Apostles, the first church. Others took that term and misapplied it.

What I do regarding Shabbat, dietary laws and Feast days is personal choice and between me and G-d. I will say that I do NOT believe adhering to the Law of Moses is required for ANY born again Believer, but they have the freedom to observe any or all of it that they choose, as it is a blessing. But it certainly not what you Law-keepers claim it to be and not required any longer.

Only God can make a Law, so its Gods law, not Moses Law, since the very 1st command in the Torah was be fruitful and multiply and he told that to Adam and Eve. So why was Jesus teaching from the Law of Moses and even the disciples and Paul after the resurrection they were teaching from the Law of Moses, if it was null as the cross?

Genesis 6:8
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Exodus 33:17
So the Lord said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”

Psalm 45:2
You are fairer than the sons of men; Grace is poured upon Your lips; Therefore God has blessed You forever.

Isaiah 26:10
Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the Lord.

Jeremiah 31:2
Thus says the Lord: “The people who survived the sword Found grace in the wilderness— Israel, when I went to give him rest.”

Look at all that grace in the OT

Look at the same grace in the NT BEFORE Jesus died
John 1:14
[ The Word Becomes Flesh ] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Luke 2:40
And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.


The first believers, followers of the way, before the word Christian hit them after a while, all kept the Sabbath, the dietary laws and the Feast Days if you read the bible in context without cherry picking, so they were still keeping the Torah, outside of the animals sacrifices which were fulfilled.

So im guessing you dont keep the Sabbath, you eat pork and shrimp and keep Xmas and Easter in place of the Feasts then, since you are vague with your answer.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Only God can make a Law, so its Gods law, not Moses Law,

However, as I pointed out with Scripture, it IS called "the Law of Moses" by G-d, in His Word, and so it is truth. G-d's Word says it, so it is. You can choose to argue, but hey, you'll have to take it up with G-d, He said it.

So why was Jesus teaching from the Law of Moses and even the disciples and Paul after the resurrection they were teaching from the Law of Moses, if it was null as the cross?

As I have pointed out from Scripture, Yeshua said He came to fulfill the Law of Moses and the prophets (which He did and then He gave us the New Covenant), but He did not come to destroy either. believe many of you are getting confused with "abolish", "destroy" and "make null and void". You see, the Law of Moses, AND the entire Old Covenant remains to teach us, yet since Yeshua fulfilled its requirements and freed us from them, their requirements as commands are null and void in the lives of Believers. The Law of Moses remains, it just is not required of us any longer, those requirements were made null and void by Yeshua.

Look at all that grace in the OT

LOL! Yes, good job of posting the word grace where it appears. However, the truth is, according to Scripture, the Law of Moses was about sin and judgement and Yeshua ushered in grace.

John 1:14-17
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For G-d has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 10
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Look at the same grace in the NT BEFORE Jesus died
John 1:14

I posted thsi Scripture to show you that YESHUA brought in grace, the Law did not. I'm not sure your clear on just what you're arguing, but I'm saying that the Law of Moses was not based on grace, never was intended to be. Yeshua's birth, ministry, death and resurrection and subsequently His New Covenant are based in grace. That is what I posted and what the Scriptures state.

No where did I state that grace was not in the world before Yeshua. I stated the Law of Moses is not a grace-based system, but the New Covenant is.

The first believers, followers of the way, before the word Christian hit them after a while, all kept the Sabbath, the dietary laws and the Feast Days if you read the bible in context without cherry picking, so they were still keeping the Torah, outside of the animals sacrifices which were fulfilled.

LOL! Actually, you know nothing about me, or what I know, yet you assume I am "cherry picking" because my studied revealed Scriptures that refute your position. Actually, I come from a Torah background as a JEW before I ever met Yeshua and knew nothing about the New Covenant, so your assumptions, which are totally erroneous, only amplify the warning not to assume things in ignorance.

So im guessing you dont keep the Sabbath, you eat pork and shrimp and keep Xmas and Easter in place of the Feasts then, since you are vague with your answer.

hahaha. Again, assuming gets you into trouble. You can "guess" anything you like about me, I really don't care. As I stated before, my observances are between me and G-d, and no one else. Some Law-keepers wave them around with inflated "pride", like the Pharisees, who wanted everyone to know how pious they were by adhering to the Law. And Yeshua rebuked them.

So yeah, when I see people boasting of their adherence to the Law of Moses, it is a red flag.

And, as I stated previously and proved by Scripture, adherence to the Law of Moses is a purely optional (not required), personal choice, not anything to get us brownie points with men or G-d. It is Yeshua's righteous and our faith in HIM that declares us righteous, not what Feasts were observe.

 

[SAAN]

However, as I pointed out with Scripture, it IS called "the Law of Moses" by G-d, in His Word, and so it is truth. G-d's Word says it, so it is. You can choose to argue, but hey, you'll have to take it up with G-d, He said it.



As I have pointed out from Scripture, Yeshua said He came to fulfill the Law of Moses and the prophets (which He did and then He gave us the New Covenant), but He did not come to destroy either. believe many of you are getting confused with "abolish", "destroy" and "make null and void". You see, the Law of Moses, AND the entire Old Covenant remains to teach us, yet since Yeshua fulfilled its requirements and freed us from them, their requirements as commands are null and void in the lives of Believers. The Law of Moses remains, it just is not required of us any longer, those requirements were made null and void by Yeshua.



LOL! Yes, good job of posting the word grace where it appears. However, the truth is, according to Scripture, the Law of Moses was about sin and judgement and Yeshua ushered in grace.

John 1:14-17
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For G-d has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 10
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.



I posted thsi Scripture to show you that YESHUA brought in grace, the Law did not. I'm not sure your clear on just what you're arguing, but I'm saying that the Law of Moses was not based on grace, never was intended to be. Yeshua's birth, ministry, death and resurrection and subsequently His New Covenant are based in grace. That is what I posted and what the Scriptures state.

No where did I state that grace was not in the world before Yeshua. I stated the Law of Moses is not a grace-based system, but the New Covenant is.



LOL! Actually, you know nothing about me, or what I know, yet you assume I am "cherry picking" because my studied revealed Scriptures that refute your position. Actually, I come from a Torah background as a JEW before I ever met Yeshua and knew nothing about the New Covenant, so your assumptions, which are totally erroneous, only amplify the warning not to assume things in ignorance.



hahaha. Again, assuming gets you into trouble. You can "guess" anything you like, I really don't care. As I stated before, my observances are between me and G-d, and no one else. Some Law-keepers wave them around with inflated "pride", like the Pharisees, who wanted everyone to know how pious they were by adhering to the Law. And Yeshua rebuked them.

So yeah, when I see people boasting of their adherence to the Law of Moses, it is a red flag.

And, as I stated previously and proved by Scripture, adherence to the Law of Moses is a purely optional (not required), personal choice, not anything to get us brownie points with men or G-d. It is Yeshua's righteous and our faith in HIM that declares us righteous, not what Feasts were observe.

No one anywhere has stated you get righteousness through observing the law, as you are stating, that only comes through Christ. If you are saved and love God you will keep his commandments because you are saved, not to try to get saved.

 

[FreeAtLast]

No one anywhere has stated you get righteousness through observing the law, as you are stating, that only comes through Christ. If you are saved and love God you will keep his commandments because you are saved, not to try to get saved.

How about responding to the rest of my reply?

And yes, some Sabbath-keepers here DO state, emphatically, I might add, that a person is displeasing to G-d and in sin, and even in danger of Hell, if they do not adhere to the Old Covenant Law of Moses and that they worship on Sunday.

And no, once saved by the grace of Yeshua, we are NOT REQUIRED to adhere to the Old Covenant Law of Moses any longer. That is the freedom we have in Yeshua!

 

[rrobsr]

Everything listed in Galatians 5:22-23 are based on the attributes of God that were revealed in the OT. If you agree that born again Christians should walk in God's ways and that God instruct Moses in how to walk in His ways, then you should therefore agree that born again Christians to walk in accordance with what God instructed to Moses.

Including circumcision, animal sacrifices, priests, temple, tabernacle, and much more? What is the point of the new birth if not freeing us from the law so we can be justified and made righteous?

Christians can live and walk with the love of God indwelling, something the OT folks couldn't do because it wasn't available until Christ rose and we received the gift of holy spirit. Walking in love will go well beyond the law. The law was our schoolmaster until Christ (Gal 3:24-25), but now we are no longer under the law which made nothing perfect anyway (Heb 7:19). Why cling to something that couldn't give us eternal life in a million years?

 

[W2L]

Jesus is the Word. This includes Gods commands and Spirit. Jesus is the spirit. (2 corinthians 3:17)

Jesus is the temple, the veil, the high priest, the sacrifice, and Hes the sabbath rest as well.

Jesus is the way truth and life and the bread from heaven

Jesus is everything.

I must continue in this belief until i'm proven wrong.

 

[rrobsr]

Jesus is the Word. This includes Gods commands and Spirit. Jesus is the spirit. (2 corinthians 3:17)

Jesus is the temple, the veil, the high priest, the sacrifice, and Hes the sabbath rest as well.

Jesus is the way truth and life and the bread from heaven

Jesus is everything.

I must continue in this belief until i'm proven wrong.

All very true. Jesus is everything and he dwells within each born again believer (Col 1:26-27). When God looks at us that is what he sees, not the sinful flesh that we all have. We were saved by grace through the death, and more importantly the resurrection, of Jesus Christ. We were not saved by following the law nor we will be made perfect through the law once we are saved (Gal 3:1-3).

Is not Hebrews 7:19 sufficient to see the law was unable to make you perfect?

Heb 7:19,

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
​

If not, then you can't possibly see God's grace at work in your life. You know that every day you break the very law you try to follow, no matter how hard you try. It must be extremely frustrating. Why not enter into the perfect rest and peace that can only come by accepting Jesus as the perfect sacrifice. Rest in his works, not your own. As a bonus, your walk will be much more like God intended for you to walk. He clearly wants you to look to his grace and forget the law. You'll be much happier and a much better witness. If you try to follow the law you will fail and you will feel like a failure. People will see that and want no part of Jesus!

 

[W2L]

All very true. Jesus is everything and he dwells within each born again believer (Col 1:26-27). When God looks at us that is what he sees, not the sinful flesh that we all have. We were saved by grace through the death, and more importantly the resurrection, of Jesus Christ. We were not saved by following the law nor we will be made perfect through the law once we are saved (Gal 3:1-3).

Is not Hebrews 7:19 sufficient to see the law was unable to make you perfect?

Heb 7:19,

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
​

If not, then you can't possibly see God's grace at work in your life. You know that every day you break the very law you try to follow, no matter how hard you try. It must be extremely frustrating. Why not enter into the perfect rest and peace that can only come by accepting Jesus as the perfect sacrifice. Rest in his works, not your own. As a bonus, your walk will be much more like God intended for you to walk. He clearly wants you to look to his grace and forget the law. You'll be much happier and a much better witness. If you try to follow the law you will fail and you will feel like a failure. People will see that and want no part of Jesus!

Thank you. I dont follow the law of Moses. I follow the Law of Christ.

James 1:12New King James Version (NKJV)
Loving God Under Trials
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

 

[Soyeong]

I see that you have added your own thoughts to scripture. We do not know what Noah ate while on the ark. Maybe a cow or a pig gave birth while floating around. He may have had a delicious meal of veal or a pig roast. All that is speculation as is what you wrote All we have to go by is God's words as quoted by Moses. Noah was allowed to eat anything he wanted, period. No "buts" or "Ifs".
* added since the writer didn't.

As to God only having one plan of salvation I fully agree. The problem kies that you will not agree to the plan taking several different courses for different peoples.

Again, Genesis 6:21 says that Noah was instructed to eat the same food as the animals, which was obviously commanded because eating the other animals would defeat the purpose of bringing them on the ark to save them from extinction, so God was simply lifting that prohibition. In Genesis 6:8-9, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, and this was by no accident, but rather he was training to walk in God ways by grace and was righteous because he obeyed through faith. One plan, same course.

I agree. the problem is we do not agree what constitutes sin. You say it is a sin to not walk under the law as Jesus did. I adamantly do not agree with that belief. If we are not under the law then we are not sinning when we do not observe ritual commands given only to Israel for their way of life.

Do you agree that the Law was given to make us conscious of sin (Romans 3:20), that without the Law Paul would not have even known what sin is (Romans 7:7), that sin is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4), that being sinless meant that Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the Law, and that when Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, that the Law was how they knew what they should be repenting of doing (Matthew 4:17, 23)?

We are all under God's Law whether we like it or not, otherwise God would have no grounds by which to judge anyone. For example if Sodom and Gomorrah had no obligation to live by God's righteous standard, then God would have had no just grounds by which to judge them for being wicked. The same goes with the Flood and with end times. In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as one where sin had dominion over us, which does not at all fit his description of God's holy, righteous, and good Law, which he delighted in obeying, but rather it perfectly fits his description of the law of sin that hindered him from doing the good that he wanted to do. It wouldn't make any sense to interpret Romans 6:14 as referring to us not being under God's Law and then say in the next verse that not being under the law doesn't mean that we are permitted to do what God's Law reveals to be sin. If we are not under God's Law, then we are free to do what He has revealed to be sin. Furthermore all the surrounding verses of Romans 6:12-19 support obedience to God's Law, where we are not to present ourselves as instruments of sin, but as instruments of righteousness, that we have been set free from sin to become slaves of righteousness, to no longer present ourselves as instruments of impurity and Lawlessness leading to more Lawlessness, but as slaves of righteousness leading to sanctification. It makes absolutely no sense to interpret this as saying that we are no longer under God's instructions given in His Law for how to do what is righteous, so we are now to become slaves of following those instructions.

I hope you are not referring to works of the law because if you are you are denying all that Paul wrote concerning the subject. You admitted we are not under the law and still insist we must keep parts of the law that are never definable by scripture or you.

I agree we we are not under the Law, but I think Paul was clearly referring to us not being under the law of sin, rather than being free from following the holy, righteous, and good instructions of our God, which he delighted in obeying. It really is kind of crazy that we have people who want to be followers of God while arguing that we should not follow what He has commanded. In Romans 3:27, Paul made a distinction between a law of faith and a law of works. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith was one of the weightier matters of God's Law and submitting to God's will is straightforwardly about having faith in Him to guide us how to rightly live, whereas man-made works of law are not of faith, so our faith upholds God's Law by leading us to obey it.

I didn't write that what He said indicated His death. How did you derive at that? I wrote that the He came did ALL that He came to do, fulfilled all the law and uttered the words "it is finished" indicating the law was to an end, Satan was defeated. Mankind does not have to worry about the ministry that brought death or any of the other 603 laws that governed Israel. We are under a new and better government.

After Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, he immediately proceeded to do something six times that fits one of the listed definitions for the term that just so happens to be the one definition that is specifically in regard to God's Law, so we strong reason to prefer that interpretation, especially because it is the way that the word is used in other verses and in other Jewish writings. However, you are associating what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 with what he was referring to on the cross when he said it is finished when there are no grounds to make that association. There is nothing that that Jesus said in Matthew 5 to indicate that his words were in regard to his death on the cross and there was nothing that Jesus said about his death to indicate that through it he would do away with God's Law, so there was no reason for anyone who heard his words on the cross to think that he was referring to what he said in Matthew 5:17. In Titus 2:14, it explains what Jesus accomplished on the cross, which is the exact opposite of what you have interpreted his words to mean.

If you take this verse over here, mix it around, and match with this other verse over there, then you can create a whole theology that runs counter to everything Jesus taught by word and by example all in the name of following him. Jesus set an example of how to walk in obedience to the Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), to walk in the same groove he made (1 John 3:6), and to be imitators of him (1 Corinthians 11:1), yet you teach the opposite, that we should reject his example of obedience to the Law. Jesus summarized the Law as being God's instructions for how to love Him and our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so it's like you're saying that Jesus loved God and our neighbor so that we don't have to, but rather he obeyed the Law in part so that we would have an example to follow.

The OT is up front that God's Law is a ministry of life and a blessing for obedience and a ministry of death and a curse for disobedience, so choose life (Deuteronomy 30:15-20)! The fact that the Law bring is a ministry of death for disobedience is hardly a good reason for you to prefer to disobey it. We have been freed from the curse of living in disobedience to the Law so that we can be free to enjoy the blessing of living in obedience to it.

 

[christianforumsuser]

Thank you. I dont follow the law of Moses. I follow the Law of Christ.

James 1:12New King James Version (NKJV)
Loving God Under Trials
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

What is that?

 

[Soyeong]

Thank you. I dont follow the law of Moses. I follow the Law of Christ.

James 1:12New King James Version (NKJV)
Loving God Under Trials
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Jesus was sinless, so he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law by word and by example, and I do not see any reason to think that the Law of Christ is something other than what he taught by word and by example.

Jesus is the Word. This includes Gods commands and Spirit. Jesus is the spirit. (2 corinthians 3:17)

Jesus is the temple, the veil, the high priest, the sacrifice, and Hes the sabbath rest as well.

Jesus is the way truth and life and the bread from heaven

Jesus is everything.

I must continue in this belief until i'm proven wrong.

The Law is God's Word and Jesus is God's Word made flesh.

 

[W2L]

Jesus was sinless, so he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law by word and by example, and I do not see any reason to think that the Law of Christ is something other than what he taught by word and by example.

Sure, and the apostles do a good job of teaching the Lords commands, as He commanded them. Sabbath rest is found in Christ, by resting in Him. Its not about resting on a certain day. Hebrews 4 teaches us this.

 

[christianforumsuser]

Didn't they accuse Him and His disciples of breaking laws?
So what is this...aren't those carnal men boasting in the Law failing to not sin, being hateful, lawless