Should Christians Choose Between the Lesser of Two Evil's in the 2016 Election ?

donlor

Member
Jul 21, 2016
23
9
75
nyc
✟7,688.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I can't vote for Trump because I'll be voting for Hillary. I don't need your forgiveness.
Wow, such a thoughtful reply - I am impressed! It took me a while to consider all that you said. However, I do not think you made quite a thorough enough case for why you will vote for hillary. It took me but minutes to write my seven reasons for why I will vote donald. Surely you can do at least that much. Can’t you?
 
Upvote 0

donlor

Member
Jul 21, 2016
23
9
75
nyc
✟7,688.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Wow, such a thoughtful reply - I am impressed! It took me a while to consider all that you said. However, I do not think you made quite a thorough enough case for why you will vote for hillary. It took me but minutes to write my seven reasons for why I will vote donald. Surely you can do at least that much. Can’t you?
 
Upvote 0

SepiaAndDust

There's a FISH in the percolator
May 6, 2012
4,380
1,325
57
Mid-America
✟26,546.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Wow, such a thoughtful reply - I am impressed! It took me a while to consider all that you said. However, I do not think you made quite a thorough enough case for why you will vote for hillary. It took me but minutes to write my seven reasons for why I will vote donald. Surely you can do at least that much. Can’t you?

Not here. That would be off-topic.

Might wanna work on your quote feature proficiency.
 
Upvote 0

donlor

Member
Jul 21, 2016
23
9
75
nyc
✟7,688.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not here. That would be off-topic.

Might wanna work on your quote feature proficiency.
I am at a total loss at what you mean by “Not here. That would be off-topic.”? I have read all the posts in this thread. There are many with reasons both for & against donald & hillary. So, how would your doing this (lay out your reasons to vote for hillary) be off-topic?.
 
Upvote 0

SepiaAndDust

There's a FISH in the percolator
May 6, 2012
4,380
1,325
57
Mid-America
✟26,546.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I am at a total loss at what you mean by “Not here. That would be off-topic.”? I have read all the posts in this thread. There are many with reasons both for & against donald & hillary. So, how would your doing this (lay out your reasons to vote for hillary) be off-topic?.

This thread is about "Should Christians Choose Between the Lesser of Two Evils in the 2016 Election?" It's not about hyping one candidate over another. Any such post would be off-topic.
 
Upvote 0

SepiaAndDust

There's a FISH in the percolator
May 6, 2012
4,380
1,325
57
Mid-America
✟26,546.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Your reply is such a joke. Unfortunately, it is not funny. But, it does lend credence to what I believe - that those who support hillary totally lack a sound case as to why any person of average intelligence would vote for her. Prove me wrong!

This is my last word on the matter.
 
Upvote 0

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Site Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,843
795
✟521,163.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am greatly disturbed and at odds as to how to resolve this issue. This election in November has been characterized by American voter's as a choice between "two evils". Should Christians be voting in such an election ? Wouldn't we be voting for "Evil" in either circumstance ?...

I've heard plenty of CF members express their conviction to vote for one or the other of the candidates. I did the same a few weeks ago, but now as the election draws nearer, my conscience is saying NO. I seriously don't believe I can walk into an election booth and pull a lever in support of someone who represents something that is patently "evil".

So for the first time in my adult life, I have decided I WILL NOT CAST ANY VOTE.

What do you think ?!

I think you are wrong. You are not voting for a priest or for anyone with priestly duties...no, you are voting for duties of this world. We are to pray for leaders world wide according to Scripture so that men of faith may live in peace. This voting allows you to cast a ballot for such peace or for policies which lead toward peace in the world and for as much godliness as one can garner for this country in terms of laws that are solid and allow a Christian to conduct himself well while living here.
I will vote and vote for Trump without any problems with conscience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nChrist
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

CGL1023

citizen of heaven
Jul 8, 2011
1,340
267
Roswell NM
✟75,781.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I am greatly disturbed and at odds as to how to resolve this issue. This election in November has been characterized by American voter's as a choice between "two evils". Should Christians be voting in such an election ? Wouldn't we be voting for "Evil" in either circumstance ?...

I've heard plenty of CF members express their conviction to vote for one or the other of the candidates. I did the same a few weeks ago, but now as the election draws nearer, my conscience is saying NO. I seriously don't believe I can walk into an election booth and pull a lever in support of someone who represents something that is patently "evil".

So for the first time in my adult life, I have decided I WILL NOT CAST ANY VOTE.

What do you think ?!

That action would amount to a vote for Hillary Clinton. You know that in this imperfect world, there will be no such thing a perfect candidate. The decision to not vote makes it easier for the favored candidate to win. I would say it is ok not to vote if the Lord told you not to vote but from what you have written, that does not seem to be the case. God has a candidate He would like to see elected but He can't vote and doesn't want to rig the election or do any thing that violate our free will in anything we do.
The best thing you can do is start talking to the Lord to find out how He would like you to vote in November.
 
Upvote 0

SpiritPsalmist

Heavy lean toward Messianic
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2002
21,665
1,466
70
Southeast Kansas
✟393,824.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
And many millions of believers have been outright murdered in the last 50 years or so.

Does anyone know how you voted ever ? Did anyone expect it to make a difference ?
If it made a difference, why has wickedness increased every year ?
(God NEVER said vote for an evil man, in a wicked system, that doesn't even COUNT the votes (they admitted this year again, the one put in office is decided BEFORE the voting even happens, and no matter who votes for who)... )

Scripture tells us that wickedness will increase. I don't vote in order to stop wickedness, I vote because I live in a country that says I can. I'm taking advantage of what is available to me in a country that God has put me in. Whether it makes a difference in the outcome of the election or not I don't know, but at least I can say "I did my part". I did not just sit lazily by wringing my hands and say "woe is me/my country". If you don't want to vote that is your choice but I choose to vote because I can.

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
— Romans 13:1

Jesus answered [speaking to Pilate], “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.”
— John 19:11

By me kings reign…
— Proverbs 8:15

…he removes kings, and sets up kings…
— Daniel 2:21

Then God removed Saul and made David their king…
— Acts 13:22

No one … can exalt themselves. It is God who judges: He brings one down, he exalts another.
— Psalms 75:6-7

…the Most High has power over human kingdoms. He gives them to whomever he wishes.
— Daniel 4:17

The king’s heart is like a stream of water directed by the LORD; he guides it wherever he pleases.
— Proverbs 21:1

Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority…
— 1 Peter 2:13

Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves… For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
— Romans 13:2-5

 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
U

US Code is codified law of course, but regardless of how it's organized, the point in focus is who it applies to.
That is why the question goes to definition of citizen, which is you're right, not the 17th, but the 14th amendment - uses sleight of hand semantics to create a new class of citizen.
"Important points. Sovereign Americans are above the governments they delegated management powers to. Governments are artificial persons, legal fictions. Governments, as artificial persons, can own property and incur debts on their own, separate from the sovereign people. The personal fortunes of the sovereign people are not to be used to discharge the government's debts. Governments have complete power over their OWN property and subjects. All jurisdiction implies superiority of power. All subjects UNDER the jurisdictional power of a government, are objects of taxation. As the Supreme Court stated above, a free man is subject to human laws only because he binds himself. You, as one of the joint owners of this country, have agreed to abide by certain laws, that you have agreed to. These laws are designated in the Constitution. Remember these concepts. They are critical to the understanding of freedom from taxation.

The Supreme Court of Colorado has ruled:
Colorado Anti-Discrimination Commission v. Case 380 P.2d 34 (1962) Natural rights - inherent rights and liberties are not the creatures of constitutional provisions either at the national or state level. The inherent human freedoms with which mankind is endowed are "antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe."

You become subject to the human laws because you bind yourself to them as an artificial person. You waive your sovereign status, to become a subject. How do you do that? By contracting with the government and accepting benefits.The only way the government will contract with you, is if you waive your inalienable rights and agree to be UNDER their jurisdiction.

Before the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868, Americans were called Citizens (with a capitlal "C") of the united States of America. (American Citizen, or American, for short) If you were born in America, you were born a sovereign with inalienable rights. It was a common understanding among the people. Up until then, slavery was still accepted in America. Slaves were not Citizens, state or national, but were merely considered the personal 'property' of the slave holders. The 13th Amendment was ratified in 1865, just 3 years before the 14th. The 13th amendment abolished slavery. But that created a new problem. The newly freed slaves were not citizens of any state or country, because they were just property, and property did not have citizenship. To solve the problem, the 14th amendment was passed. This amendment created a new class of citizenship. This new class was legally called: 'United States citizen', (with a small "c"). NOT 'United States of America Citizen', but just 'United States citizen'. Notice that the U.S. citizen is spelled with a lower case 'c'. This is to show a lower class of citizenship. This class of citizen (U.S. citizen) is a privilege granted by the federal government, and not a sovereign inalienable right.

From Black's Law Dictionary 6th Edition:

Fourteenth Amendment. The Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, ratified in 1868, creates or at least recognizes for the first time a citizenship of the United States, as distinct from that of the states;

The Civil War was fought from 1861-1865. The significance of this will be seen later.

Let's see just what the 14th Amendment really does say.

Constitution of the United States of America
14th Amendment (1868). Section 1. All persons
born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any States deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Notice the wording of this amendment carefully. If they were talking about Citizens of the 50 states, then it would read "and subject to the jurisdiction(s) thereof". Jurisdictions would be plural if it applied to more than one entity. But since it applies only to the United States government, singular, is also shows the jurisdiction to be singular. Jurisdiction, not jurisdictions.

Several other things to notice here. This section 1 of the amendment has two parts.

The first part has to do with the citizenship of 'persons', subjects.

The second part has to do with the states being required to protect the privileges and immunities of the United States citizen. We will look at the first part first."

http://www.usa-the-republic.com/revenue/true_history/Chap6.html

More conspiracy theory.
 
Upvote 0

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Conspiracy fact.
Except for the 3rd term.
The UCC is maritime/martial law.
It just hasn't put troops on the streets yet.
No, the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) is not martial law. It is a uniform code promulgated for adoption in all 50 states. As of this point it has been adopted in 49 states. It has no provisions for putting "troops on the streets."

More conspiracy theory.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Reams of hooey.
Lincoln ended government by consent.
He never rescinded his executive order putting us under martial law.

"Many historians have called this old conventional wisdom into question, arguing that Lincoln was not really motivated by commitment to end slavery. The proof, they claim, is his famous letter to Horace Greeley in which he wrote that “my paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery, If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”

Many of Lincoln’s critics, especially African-Americans, go so far as to claim that he was no friend of blacks and did not want to risk the political fallout that would surely result from emancipation, but was eventually forced by circumstances to do so. In the words of Julius Lester, “Blacks have no reason to feel grateful to Abraham Lincoln. How come it took him two whole years to free the slaves? His pen was sitting on his desk the entire time.”

Many also have questioned the real significance of the Emancipation Proclamation, arguing that it was merely a piece of propaganda and that it actually freed no slaves. As Richard Hofstadter wrote, “had the political strategy of the moment called for a momentous human document of the stature of the Declaration of Independence, Lincoln could have risen to the occasion.” Instead, he produced a document with “all the moral grandeur of a bill of lading.” In addition, the document he issued only freed slaves where the federal government had no power. It did not apply to slaves in the loyal slave states or in those parts of the Confederacy under Union control. Indeed, Lincoln did not free the slaves; they freed themselves."

http://ashbrook.org/publications/oped-owens-04-guelzo/

It's a puppet show for the gullible who won't or can't realize the country was dissolved in the '33 bankruptcy.
Educate yourself:
http://annavonreitz.com

What? "[T]he country was dissolved in the '33 bankruptcy"???? I don't think so.

This is getting very off-topic. I suggest that you start a new thread if you want to discuss this.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What? "[T]he country was dissolved in the '33 bankruptcy"???? I don't think so.

This is getting very off-topic. I suggest that you start a new thread if you want to discuss this.
You need to rethink.
It is on topic in how it relates to voting.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No, the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) is not martial law. It is a uniform code promulgated for adoption in all 50 states. As of this point it has been adopted in 49 states. It has no provisions for putting "troops on the streets."

More conspiracy theory.
Yes it is martial law. It is the provision for putting troops on the streets.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Archivist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 5, 2004
17,332
6,425
Morgantown, West Virginia, USA
✟571,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
You need to rethink.
It is on topic in how it relates to voting.
But it is not about voting for the lesser of two evils, which is what the thread is about.
 
Upvote 0