Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

PloverWing

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I mean, Easter is the main show for Christians... And... I suppose the real question is... HOW should Christians celebrate Christmas...
To what extent, if at all, should they join in with the pagan revelries, and with the worship of various plants and trees?

In a normal year, my church gathers on Christmas Eve, near midnight, for a festive Eucharist, with singing and candles and incense. This, of course, was not a normal year; we did our best approximation via Zoom.

Decorative trees are fun but entirely optional.
 
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Sketcher

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I mean, Easter is the main show for Christians... And... I suppose the real question is... HOW should Christians celebrate Christmas...
To what extent, if at all, should they join in with the pagan revelries, and with the worship of various plants and trees?
I have never worshiped a plant or tree for Christmas. I have put up and decorated Christmas trees plenty of times, but it is not an object of worship or religious devotion. It is a seasonal decoration. I also do not know of any "pagan revelries" that are specific to Christmas. There are some neo-pagans who celebrate the winter solstice, but I am not interested enough in those celebrations to know what they do.

How should a Christian celebrate Christmas?

- Remember and reflect on the Annunciation and the Virgin Birth of Christ.
- Celebrate this with your church and with your family.
- Give gifts to one another, as an exercise of showing love and an exercise against selfishness.
- It's perfectly fine to decorate, and enjoy food and drink for this celebration.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I mean, Easter is the main show for Christians... And... I suppose the real question is... HOW should Christians celebrate Christmas...
To what extent, if at all, should they join in with the pagan revelries, and with the worship of various plants and trees?

What pagan revelries or worship of plants and trees?

The Feast of the Holy Nativity of the Lord Jesus, better known as Christmas or Christ's Mass, i.e. "the Feast of Christ" has been part of the Christian liturgical calendar since antiquity.

Since at least as early as the early 3rd century Christians have been discussing things such as on what calendar day was Jesus' death? What day was He born? Etc. From pretty early on we see a pretty common consensus among Christians that Jesus had been crucified on a March 25th. Christians then speculated that if Christ had died on a March 25th, then maybe He was also born, or perhaps He was conceived on March 25th. The rationale for this was that since Jesus, being perfect, would have lived a perfect number of years--thus dying on the same day He was either conceived or born.

At the time Christians had already been celebrating the Epiphany, the second oldest Christian liturgical season, the oldest being the Paschal (Easter) Season. The Epiphany, from the Greek word meaning "manifestation" was a kind of general celebration of Christ's manifestation of Himself--in some places the emphasis was on His baptism in the Jordan river by John the Baptist, on other places it was associated with His Incarnation/birth. Epiphany begins on the Feast of Holy Epiphany, January 6th. In the Armenian Church, even to this day, Christmas is celebrated on January 6th (where the Nativity and Epiphany are co-celebrated as one Feast).

December 25th became associated with Christ's Nativity by a simple calculation of nine months from March 25th. That is, those who reckoned Christ's conception on March 25th simply added nine months to get December 25th.

Church services dedicated to Christ's Nativity occurring on December 25th had to have already become quite common, at least in some church jurisdictions, by the mid-4th century as we have a written record from the year 354 AD in which December 25th is recorded on a calendar as the Feast of Christ's Nativity.

By the 6th century the celebration of Christ's Nativity on December 25th had become so widespread, that it was made official in most church jurisdictions. Though, as noted already, the Armenian Church continues to celebrate Christmas on January 6th, rather than December 25th.

Pagan connections with Christmas are, at best, weak and spurious conjecture. It's more of a popular myth than anything taken serious in any academic setting.

As for modern, western ways in which Christmas is celebrated, that is the sort of external cultural motifs; those things are really more a pastiche of accumulated cultural customs. Some having explicitly Christian origins, and others largely as cultural winter miscellany. Some of those fluffy cultural artifacts probably did have some origins among pagans who converted to Christianity, but there simply isn't anything innately "pagan" about them. An end of the harvest celebration with eating, drinking, fire, song, dance is something we find in a lot of cultures, and which absolutely were things pagan people did--but that doesn't mean that the American civil holiday of Thanksgiving (as an example) is full of "pagan revelry". Because there's nothing wrong with eating, drinking, fire, song, dance, and communities enjoying life together in harmless ways. By the same token, there's nothing harmful about the cute little tradition of kissing under the mistletoe. Nobody worships mistletoe, and it's not some intrinsic part of Christmas. It's just cultural fluff, and it's fine.

It's okay to be a Christian to also have fun.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Tellyontellyon

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What pagan revelries or worship of plants and trees?
It may have passed you by, but the way a lot of people, Christian and otherwise, celebrate Christmas is to get drunk, feast, kiss under the mistletoe, bring a tree into the house and decorate it, light candles. There may be a Christmas log brought into the house. There are parties and other ways of celebrating Saturnalia and the winter solstice that have been given a faint Christian gloss ...
... You must have seen it?
When I was little we used to send notes up the Chimney to Father Christmas, who these days is a sort of demi-god complete with flying animals and magic pixies! The connection with the patron saint of children and prostitutes is lost on most people... You don't know what I'm talking about?

The thing is the 'academic study' is nearly always by believers.. and to dismiss the pagan roots is to ignore the depth of those roots.. there are many who practice paganism still, and it is growing exponentially after years of repression.. whether that was dismissive academic repression or good old fashioned slaughter.
 
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ViaCrucis

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It may have passed you by, but the way a lot of people, Christian and otherwise, celebrate Christmas is to get drunk, feast, kiss under the mistletoe, bring a tree into the house and decorate it, light candles. There may be a Christmas log brought into the house. There are parties and other ways of celebrating Saturnalia and the winter solstice that have been given a faint Christian gloss ...
... You must have seen it?
When I was little we used to send notes up the Chimney to Father Christmas, who these days is a sort of demi-god complete with flying animals and magic pixies! The connection with the patron saint of children and prostitutes is lost on most people... You don't know what I'm talking about?

Oh I'm quite aware. Which is why I mentioned "cultural fluff" in my previous post. I addressed this already.

The thing is the 'academic study' is nearly always by believers.. and to dismiss the pagan roots is to ignore the depth of those roots.. there are many who practice paganism still, and it is growing exponentially after years of repression.. whether that was dismissive academic repression or good old fashioned slaughter.

I'm talking about objective historical study and analysis. The "Christmas is pagan" narrative simply does not have a basis in historical evidence.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Tellyontellyon

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I'm talking about objective historical study and analysis. The "Christmas is pagan" narrative simply does not have a basis in historical evidence.
Paganism is not cultural fluff and it never was.... But I'm not suggesting Christmas is Pagan!

The problem is you think I'm talking about the Christian Christmas... I'm talking about what makes up the majority of what most people are actually doing at Christmas regardless of what they believe. And what they are actually doing is more aligned with paganism, even if not consciously understood.

Eg. Tying decorations to trees does not come from Christianity... but is an ancient tradition that has serious roots... It's not the same as wearing Deeley Boppers. Saint Nicholas seems to have morphed into a winter version of the Green Man.

My question is actually about the 'cultural fluff' as you call it.. it's not a debate about Christians adopting pagan practices per se.

A lot of the 'fluff' is unconsciously pagan (conscious for some!).. Should Christians support it? (The not so fluffy fluff I mean)
 
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ViaCrucis

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Paganism is not cultural fluff and it never was.... But I'm not suggesting Christmas is Pagan!

I wasn't calling Paganism cultural fluff. I'm calling things like kissing under the mistletoe cultural fluff. Bits of culture that exist which are fundamentally superfluous to the celebration being discussed.

Mistletoe, boughs of holly, red-nosed reindeer, etc aren't Christmas. They are bits of cultural fluff that have accrued and developed.

The Christmas tree has its origins in Christian practices from the late middle ages in the 15th and 16th centuries. The precursor to the Christmas tree were probably the paradise trees set up on Christmas Eve in Germany in the 1400's. Evergreen trees were cut down and brought into homes and decorated with apples and wafers that looked like the Eucharistic host. This is because December 24th has for centuries been the annual Feast Day of Adam and Eve.

Paradise Plays and other popular Mystery Plays were not always smiled upon by ecclesiastical authorities in the middle ages, and church frowned on such plays. But popular customs don't just disappear. The first recorded "Christmas tree" as it could be so-called appeared in the courtyard of Strasbourg Cathedral in 1539. Lutherans in Germany, more-or-less popularized home Christmas trees by adapting the already common Paradise Tree custom on December 24th.

German Lutherans then brought this tradition with them when they came to new places as immigrants, such as to the United States and Canada in the 19th century. And by cultural osmosis, the tradition slowly permeated its way into the traditions of more and more families.

That's not Paganism. And that's not really Christmas either, it's cultural fluff. I'm not saying "fluff" in a demeaning way. It's just not an essential aspect of what the Christian Feast of Christmas is about, it's a cultural thing.

The problem is you think I'm talking about the Christian Christmas... I'm talking about what makes up the majority of what most people are actually doing at Christmas regardless of what they believe. And what they are actually doing is more aligned with paganism, even if not consciously understood.

And I simply disagree with this. Whatever pagan significance that at one point may have been attached to, say, using holly as decoration in the winter has long vanished from the popular consciousness. And associating it with Paganism today is a rather big stretch. It's simply become a cultural artifact.

Eg. Tying decorations to trees does not come from Christianity... but is an ancient tradition that has serious roots... It's not the same as wearing Deeley Boppers. Saint Nicholas seems to have morphed into a winter version of the Green Man.

And my point is that even if such tenuous connections exist, they are fundamentally far too weak to establish anything in the modern period as "Pagan". It's a bit like trying to argue that dice games are Pagan because the use of dice probably originated as bone rolling for divination purposes. But context, and the disconnect from then and now is so vast and different that to argue in that direction is basically absurd.

Which really only has me repeating what I've been saying already.

My question is actually about the 'cultural fluff' as you call it.. it's not a debate about Christians adopting pagan practices per se.

A lot of the 'fluff' is unconsciously pagan (conscious for some!).. Should Christians support it? (The not so fluffy fluff I mean)

I can't think of a single cultural Christmas artifact in the general western European, or at least broadly Anglo cultural holiday lexicon that should be regarded as problematic--with or without possible pagan origins or associations in the past.

And that's kind of been my point here--as well as trying to correct common misconceptions.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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