SHOULD CHRISTIANS CELBRATE HALLOWEEN?

[ViaCrucis]

Sorry Brothers, but I don't buy it. Kids getting candy sure sounds like an ok thing, but like in the same way that "oh, ouiji boards aren't witchcraft, it's a game by milton bradley..." it is a seed whch leads to more wrong thinking and a wrong path.

I googled it to be sure I wasn't missing something, and sure enough, the first thing I clicked on gave the true origins.

"Halloween’s origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1.

This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31 they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth.

In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.

To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities. During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other’s fortunes.

When the celebration was over, they re-lit their hearth fires, which they had extinguished earlier that evening, from the sacred bonfire to help protect them during the coming winter..."

Ghosts coming back? Sacrifices to Celtic gods? Druids? Protection from Ghosts?...Nope, not this time.

But it's for the children, so it's ok....Uhh, no.



Source: History of Halloween - Halloween - HISTORY.com

The article is wrong.

All Saints is celebrated on November 1st because Pope Gregory III dedicated an oratory to all the saints on November 1st in the 8th century. Pope Gregory IV, over a century later in honor of the oratory requested Louis the Pious make it official throughout the Frankish realm--but it wasn't until the 11th century that November 1st became the official date for All Saints throughout the Western Church. In the centuries prior All Saints had been celebrated at other dates, the most common since late antiquity was May 13th.

The Irish hadn't been practicing paganism in centuries when this happened. St. Patrick's mission to Ireland was in the 5th century, Patrick wasn't the first to preach to the Irish, but he was the most prominent, and following Patrick's mission the Irish themselves largely produced missionaries which continued, to the point that the Irish themselves sent missionaries back to the island of Britain, specifically among the Picts and Scots in the north. By the end of the 6th century Celtic paganism was basically gone in the British isles.

Then there's the small problem about trying to say anything about Samhain. There's effectively no information available. Virtually everything we have comes from late medieval Christian legends in Ireland centuries removed. Samhain was a period of feasting and celebration, marked by lighting bonfires and drinking alcohol in celebration of the autumn harvest. The later legends speak of a "thinning" during this time of the year between this world and the fairy realm, but I think it's probably safe to say that legends about fairies aren't the most reliable.

Connecting Samhain to All Saints or Halloween is a popular thing to do, but it's pure conjecture--there's no solid evidence to support the theory. It's made very difficult on the basis that Samhain was practiced by the Irish Celts, while the move of All Saints to November 1st was a move prompted by the Bishop of Rome among the Franks. Thinking that this was done to supplant Samhain seems thoroughly untenable since the Franks never practiced Celtic Paganism, prior to their conversion under Clovis they practiced Germanic paganism; the motive to move All Saints to November 1st has an established precedent already in the oratory of Pope Gregory III, and it was a move that began in Rome--not the Irish; and it was the Frankish king who adopted it in his realm comprised of Christian Franks, not Celts.

All Hallows Eve
The Christianization of a Pagan Holiday Myth - Saint Sophia
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6210
Pope Gregory III - Wikipedia
Pope Gregory IV - Wikipedia
All Saints' Day | Definition, History, & Facts
Samhain Past: History, Myth, & Mystery

The fact of the matter is that there's really no reason to think of any connection at all, and the theory of a connection is rooted in conjecture and speculation, not historical evidence; and the vast majority of the claims which are made out there are simply pure poppycock which is told and retold and told again.

A popular misconception is still a misconception, even if it's popular. Consider how often people--even educated people--still will speak of Christopher Columbus setting out to prove that the earth was round because everyone in Europe back then was an idiot who believed the earth was flat; all because one quack from the 19th century made something up and it proved very popular in spite of being objectively and obviously wrong. A wrong idea is difficult enough to overturn, but a firmly established wrong idea is even more difficult.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Divide]

Just out of curiosity, do you celebrate Christmas? After all, it also has began roots.

Not any more. Kids are grown, the wife jumped ship, and Dec 25th prolly isn't His birthday anyway...because Judea is pretty much impassable in December for the snow. (So the wise men couldn't have rode camels to Bethlehem then) I read somewhere that Jesus was likely born in September.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Halloween is a "christian" holiday only in western countries. It is not practised among christians in other parts of the world. Where is halloween celebrated in the Bible?

In the East All Saints is a moveable feast, the Sunday of All Saints is always the Sunday after Pentecost Sunday.

The Bible doesn't mention a lot of things, for example, the Bible never mentions the Bible.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Divide]

The article is wrong.

All Saints is celebrated on November 1st because Pope Gregory III dedicated an oratory to all the saints on November 1st in the 8th century. Pope Gregory IV, over a century later in honor of the oratory requested Louis the Pious make it official throughout the Frankish realm--but it wasn't until the 11th century that November 1st became the official date for All Saints throughout the Western Church. In the centuries prior All Saints had been celebrated at other dates, the most common since late antiquity was May 13th.

The Irish hadn't been practicing paganism in centuries when this happened. St. Patrick's mission to Ireland was in the 5th century, Patrick wasn't the first to preach to the Irish, but he was the most prominent, and following Patrick's mission the Irish themselves largely produced missionaries which continued, to the point that the Irish themselves sent missionaries back to the island of Britain, specifically among the Picts and Scots in the north. By the end of the 6th century Celtic paganism was basically gone in the British isles.

Then there's the small problem about trying to say anything about Samhain. There's effectively no information available. Virtually everything we have comes from late medieval Christian legends in Ireland centuries removed. Samhain was a period of feasting and celebration, marked by lighting bonfires and drinking alcohol in celebration of the autumn harvest. The later legends speak of a "thinning" during this time of the year between this world and the fairy realm, but I think it's probably safe to say that legends about fairies aren't the most reliable.

Connecting Samhain to All Saints or Halloween is a popular thing to do, but it's pure conjecture--there's no solid evidence to support the theory. It's made very difficult on the basis that Samhain was practiced by the Irish Celts, while the move of All Saints to November 1st was a move prompted by the Bishop of Rome among the Franks. Thinking that this was done to supplant Samhain seems thoroughly untenable since the Franks never practiced Celtic Paganism, prior to their conversion under Clovis they practiced Germanic paganism; the motive to move All Saints to November 1st has an established precedent already in the oratory of Pope Gregory III, and it was a move that began in Rome--not the Irish; and it was the Frankish king who adopted it in his realm comprised of Christian Franks, not Celts.

All Hallows Eve
The Christianization of a Pagan Holiday Myth - Saint Sophia
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6210
Pope Gregory III - Wikipedia
Pope Gregory IV - Wikipedia
All Saints' Day | Definition, History, & Facts
Samhain Past: History, Myth, & Mystery

The fact of the matter is that there's really no reason to think of any connection at all, and the theory of a connection is rooted in conjecture and speculation, not historical evidence; and the vast majority of the claims which are made out there are simply pure poppycock which is told and retold and told again.

A popular misconception is still a misconception, even if it's popular. Consider how often people--even educated people--still will speak of Christopher Columbus setting out to prove that the earth was round because everyone in Europe back then was an idiot who believed the earth was flat; all because one quack from the 19th century made something up and it proved very popular in spite of being objectively and obviously wrong. A wrong idea is difficult enough to overturn, but a firmly established wrong idea is even more difficult.

-CryptoLutheran

Uhhh, let it be so according to your faith?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Not any more. Kids are grown, the wife jumped ship, and Dec 25th prolly isn't His birthday anyway...because Judea is pretty much impassable in December for the snow. (So the wise men couldn't have rode camels to Bethlehem then) I read somewhere that Jesus was likely born in September.

Even into modern times shepherds overwinter their flocks in the plains around Bethlehem. But we don't celebrate December 25th as the Feast of the Lord's Nativity because it's His birthday. Christmas isn't Jesus' birthday, Christmas is the Feast of Christ's Nativity, it is the liturgical celebration of His birth. So even if He was born in April or June or November it's not really relevant here. But the basic reason that Christmas 25th is the date we celebrate Christ's nativity (except for the Armenian Church, which celebrates it on January 6th as part of Theophany) is because it is nine months after March 25th. Early Christian leaders were of the opinion that Christ died on a March 25th, and so they reasoned that He was either conceived or born on March 25th (it was only fitting, they reasoned, that the Son of God have a perfect life, dying on the day He was born or conceived). Some, therefore, celebrated Christ's Nativity on March 25th, but others instead counted nine months, thus December 25th. The date was standardized in the 5th century within the churches within the Roman Empire, and was accepted by most churches in general (the Armenian Church being the exception), and consequently March 25th was adopted as the Feast of the Annunciation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Uhhh, let it be so according to your faith?

According to the available historical information.

Which do you take issue with? That Pope Gregory III dedicated an oratory in Rome to the Virgin Mary and all the saints? Or that Pope Gregory IV petitioned Louis the Pious of the Carolingian Empire to adopt November 1st as the celebration of All Saints? That the Irish were converted under the missionary work of Patrick and the Irish missionary-monks? That Samhain was an Irish harvest festival? That the only writings we have about Samhain come from Christian legends centuries after the conversion of the Irish?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Archivist]

Not any more. Kids are grown, the wife jumped ship, and Dec 25th prolly isn't His birthday anyway...because Judea is pretty much impassable in December for the snow. (So the wise men couldn't have rode camels to Bethlehem then) I read somewhere that Jesus was likely born in September.

Yes, Decembee 25 probably isnt when Christ was actually born, but that doesn’t matter. It is the day that most Christians celebrate His birth. Yes It falls in conjunction with a pegan feast but they is irrelevant because we aren’t celebration that feast just as children are are not celebrating an ancient pegan Feast when they collect candy at Halloween.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Candy (but only candy acquired on Oct 31) is the equivalent of Ouiji boards. They are the gateway to satanism.

How many people have you actually met in your life who were subverted into Satanism by eating candy on 10/31?

 

[Hammster]

Even into modern times shepherds overwinter their flocks in the plains around Bethlehem. But we don't celebrate December 25th as the Feast of the Lord's Nativity because it's His birthday. Christmas isn't Jesus' birthday, Christmas is the Feast of Christ's Nativity, it is the liturgical celebration of His birth. So even if He was born in April or June or November it's not really relevant here. But the basic reason that Christmas 25th is the date we celebrate Christ's nativity (except for the Armenian Church, which celebrates it on January 6th as part of Theophany) is because it is nine months after March 25th. Early Christian leaders were of the opinion that Christ died on a March 25th, and so they reasoned that He was either conceived or born on March 25th (it was only fitting, they reasoned, that the Son of God have a perfect life, dying on the day He was born or conceived). Some, therefore, celebrated Christ's Nativity on March 25th, but others instead counted nine months, thus December 25th. The date was standardized in the 5th century within the churches within the Roman Empire, and was accepted by most churches in general (the Armenian Church being the exception), and consequently March 25th was adopted as the Feast of the Annunciation.

-CryptoLutheran

I did not know that.

 

[Hammster]

How many people have you actually met in your life who were subverted into Satanism by eating candy on 10/31?

Carry the 1.....

Zero.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes, Decembee 25 probably isnt when Christ was actually born, but that doesn’t matter. It is the day that most Christians celebrate His birth. Yes It falls in conjunction with a pegan feast but they is irrelevant because we aren’t celebration that feast just as children are are not celebrating an ancient pegan Feast when they collect candy at Halloween.

The Dies Natalis Solis Invicti or Nativity Day of the Unconquered Sun was celebrated on December 25th, but the Cult of Sol Invictus didn't exist until 274 under Emperor Aurelian. Julius Africanus had used the March 25th reckoning to argue Christ was born on December 25th well before this; Africanus died in 240, thirty-four years before Aurelian established the imperial solar cult; though sun worship had become popular first under Elagabalus who had been himself a priest of the Syrian sun god Elagabalus (from which he took his name).

More interesting is that the Philocalian Calendar of 354 is the first recorded mention of the Dies Natalis,

"The Philocalian calendar of AD 354 gives a festival of "Natalis Invicti" on 25 December. There is limited evidence that this festival was celebrated before the mid-4th century.[42][43] Whether this date was intended to celebrate solstice is doubtful; one scholar writes that "the cult of the sun in pagan Rome ironically did not celebrate the winter solstice nor any of the other quarter-tense days, as one might expect."[44]"." - Sol Invictus - Wikipedia

The numbered sources given on the Wiki article are as follows:

42. Wallraff 2001: 174–177. Hoey (1939: 480) writes: "An inscription of unique interest from the reign of Licinius embodies the official prescription for the annual celebration by his army of a festival of Sol Invictus on December 19". The inscription (Dessau, Inscriptiones Latinae Selectae 8940) actually prescribes an annual offering to Sol on November 18 (die XIV Kal(endis) Decemb(ribus), i.e., on the fourteenth day before the Kalends of December).

43. Text at [6] Parts 6 and 12 respectively. (links added)

44. Michael Alan Anderson, Symbols of Saints (ProQuest 2008 ISBN 978-0-54956551-2), pp. 45-46

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Archivist]

For those who have said that Christians shouldn’t celebrate Halloween because it occurs on what was (and remains) a pegan holiday, it is probably safe to bet that pretty much every day was once a religious holiday celebrated by some ancient religion or perhaps is a holiday for some modern non-Christian faith. Should Christians therefore not celebrate any holidays?

 

[longwait]

That is because All Hallows Eve and All Saints day are celebrated by the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Communion, the Lutheran Church and some other Protestant Churches. The Eastern Christian Churches celebrate the Sunday of All Saints in the Spring.

Halloween is not celebrated in the Bible. Neither is Christmas or Easter.

That's what I meant. Halloween is not in the Bible so why should christians celebrate it. I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter. I don't buy any easter eggs or celebrate it that way. I just remember
Christ's resurrection and go to church on Good Friday. Afterall Christ's crucifixion and ressurection are in the Bible. Halloween is not. Christmas no one knows for sure when exactly Christ was born. So I stopped celebrating it with the world.

 

[Archivist]

That's what I meant. Halloween is not in the Bible so why should christians celebrate it. I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter. I don't buy any easter eggs or celebrate it that way. I just remember
Christ's resurrection and go to church on Good Friday. Afterall Christ's crucifixion and ressurection are in the Bible. Halloween is not. Christmas no one knows for sure when exactly Christ was born. So I stopped celebrating it with the world.

At least you are mostly consistent. However, the fact that you have chosen to not Celebrate Christian holidays doesn’t provide a reason for saying that other Christians for celebrating such holidays.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That's what I meant. Halloween is not in the Bible so why should christians celebrate it. I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter. I don't buy any easter eggs or celebrate it that way. I just remember
Christ's resurrection and go to church on Good Friday. Afterall Christ's crucifixion and ressurection are in the Bible. Halloween is not. Christmas no one knows for sure when exactly Christ was born. So I stopped celebrating it with the world.

This sort of methodology makes no sense to me. The Bible never mentions the Bible either, but presumably you still use the Bible--one will not find anywhere in the contents of Scripture a list of what books are canonical Scripture; the Canon evolved and developed in the centuries following the writing of the books themselves.

And the subject matter of Halloween, for what its worth, very much is in the Bible.

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us," - Hebrews 12:1

The great cloud of witnesses is precisely what we are remembering and celebrating on the Feast of All Saints. Halloween is simply the Eve of All Saints. That's what Halloween literally means, [All]Hallow's Eve[ening], or Hallowe'en.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[2PhiloVoid]

With Halloween quickly approaching I was wondering if Christians should celebrate it?
Do you know its origin?
Does it glorify darkness as far as what you see in media and television?
Does it break the first commandment?, " Thou shalt not have strange gods before me".
When people say it is just make believe, does this mean that Satan does not have creative entertainment? Is Halloween the imaginative entertainment of the jezebel spirit?
Is it a pagan celebration of darkness?
Are we called to be of the light?​

I think that any of the holidays we now have are no more what we make them to be. These special days are "relative" times of festivity, and if we're going to down Halloween, we can down most of the others, too, for similar reasons. However, to down them all in this way seems kind of extreme to me, maybe even tending toward false piety.

Besides, Satan may think he owns a few hills here and there, but that doesn't mean he really, truly owns any of the 365 days of the year. No, I'm kind of under the impression that each day is God's, regardless.

But, I could be wrong.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[raschau]

Christians should feel free to celebrate Halloween, or any other secular holiday.

They should also feel free to celebrate Reformation Day.

 

[Archivist]

Christians should feel free to celebrate Halloween, or any other secular holiday.

They should also feel free to celebrate Reformation Day.

And we have a very notable Reformation Sunday tomorrow!

 

[Tetra]

Of course, Halloween is awesome!

 

[Tetra]

Had a fantastic Halloween haul this year!! The only problem is, I feel sick from eating too much once the kids hit the sack. Don't lie, you do it too.