Should christians be poor, hungry, sad and hated?

[Katmando]

Can someone put this verse into perspective for me.

Luke 6
17He went down with them and stood on a level place. A large crowd of his disciples was there and a great number of people from all over Judea, from Jerusalem, and from the coast of Tyre and Sidon, 18who had come to hear him and to be healed of their diseases. Those troubled by evil[1] spirits were cured, 19and the people all tried to touch him, because power was coming from him and healing them all.
20Looking at his disciples, he said:
"Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
21Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you will laugh.
22Blessed are you when men hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
23"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
24"But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.

 

[d0c markus]

its talking about humility and being happy with what you have. If your not happy with god alone, your not going to be happy with any material possession including a wife or husband..

the bible doesnt say its bad, but is a blessing if it doesnt take place of god. im to lazy to give u scriptural refrences.. but no doubt someone will

 

[Carico]

The phrase that really convicts me is when Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, unless you sell everything and give to the poor, you cannot be my disciples." I struggle with that a lot. I think the Beattitudes that were quoted in the first post are simply truisms. If we are not poor, for example, that does not mean we are not blessed. But it's the degree of what we are called to do. It depends on what kind of soil the seed falls on, eocky, thorny, or good soil. Jesus is doing a huge thing with me and it's very difficult. I'm constantly talking to Him, and wanting to be in the world but not of the world. What he wants for me is alwyas first in my mind. It's what I think about most of each day. As far as being hated, never by believers by quite often by the world. What do others think about this?

 

[d0c markus]

when Jesus said sell everything and give to the poor it was a matter of faith, the man if you will note he didnt give it up because he loved his money more than he wanted salvation. Its got nothing to do with being poor, it about following christ 150% and not placing anything as a barrier to your relationship.

 

[Katmando]

The phrase that really convicts me is when Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, unless you sell everything and give to the poor, you cannot be my disciples."

And there are more ...

Matthew 13:44
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Mark 10:21
Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me."

Luke 12:33
Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys.

I could probably go on....

I have yet to meet a christian to sell everything and give to the poor. It seems the Bible is pretty clear about this. So if it is the right thing to do why is no one doing this?

 

[d0c markus]

Will it do you alot of good to sell everything you have and give to the poor if you have a family of four? Christ calls us to take care of our family, not to put the family before him but to care for them. Tithe yes, go poor yourself, to what end is that benifiting you?



I would further argue, that if we are to go poor it would be a cascading effect and thus we would all be in the gutter, then we could not help anybody. We would become a boil to society. perhaps the reason you dont see many christians doing this is because its about humility. Having money does not mean your not a true follower of christ.

 

[d0c markus]

in the beatitudes matthew 5:1 its says blessed is he who is poor in spirit. Whats that mean, is that humility or does christ want you to be depressed and have miniscule faith? Being humble is a huge part of faith.

 

[Katmando]

when Jesus said sell everything and give to the poor it was a matter of faith, the man if you will note he didnt give it up because he loved his money more than he wanted salvation. Its got nothing to do with being poor, it about following christ 150% and not placing anything as a barrier to your relationship.

So are you saying we need to do this only if God asks us to do this?

Salvation is more important to me than anything on this earth so should I give it all up now?

 

[Katmando]

Will it do you alot of good to sell everything you have and give to the poor if you have a family of four? Christ calls us to take care of our family, not to put the family before him but to care for them. Tithe yes, go poor yourself, to what end is that benifiting you?

Well I do think God knows better than me. Just because I do not understad why he ask us to do this, does not mean that I should not do it.

I would further argue, that if we are to go poor it would be a cascading effect and thus we would all be in the gutter, then we could not help anybody. We would become a boil to society. perhaps the reason you dont see many christians doing this is because its about humility. Having money does not mean your not a true follower of christ.

What is that we need to survive? And God say that he will make sure we have what we need.

 

[d0c markus]

So are you saying we need to do this only if God asks us to do this?

Salvation is more important to me than anything on this earth so should I give it all up now?

No, Your not getting it. Jesus asked this rich man to do this to make a point. To put christ before money before all, to truley follow god means not being controlled by your possesisions. I can see how you are drawing your conclusion. This man loved his money more than christ. The verses that curse the rich above is because they are "comfortable" IE they could give 2 craps about Jesus and his cause they got money and they are kings in themselves. Jesus tells us not to focus on them.

 

[d0c markus]

1Tim 6:9 -10

But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.

10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

1Ti 6:17-18

Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy.

18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,


where are these rich called to give it up? They are called to not let it run thier lives, then it is a sin!

 

[Katmando]

No, Your not getting it. Jesus asked this rich man to do this to make a point. To put christ before money before all, to truley follow god means not being controlled by your possesisions. I can see how you are drawing your conclusion. This man loved his money more than christ. The verses that curse the rich above is because they are "comfortable" IE they could give 2 craps about Jesus and his cause they got money and they are kings in themselves. Jesus tells us not to focus on them.

In Luke6 jesus is not talking to a particular man he is talking to a crown of people.

I am truly trying to understand this a not trying to be difficult. Thank you for your patience. <><

 

[d0c markus]

i hear ya and no prob. I stand firmly on humility. If your poor what a great relief it is to find the riches of god, its said the hardest people to preach too are the rich, they are smug, have it all, but in reality they have nothing. The poor are blessed because they appreciate true gold.

and a rich person whose heart is properly conformed to christ, they can do alot of good with thier money! They can also live a humble life.

 

[d0c markus]

Well I do think God knows better than me. Just because I do not understad why he ask us to do this, does not mean that I should not do it.



What is that we need to survive? And God say that he will make sure we have what we need.

yes i firmly agree.

MT 6:25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

MT 6:28 "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we wear?' 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


Money is a nesscessity to live, can not christ bless us with a comfortable and successful life? I know doctors who are missionaries, they are rich yet thier money they use to support thier ministry. being rich can be a blessing, not always a curse if your heart is in the right place.


what are your thoughts on 1Ti 6:17-18

 

[Katmando]

Money is a nesscessity to live, can not christ bless us with a comfortable and successful life? I know doctors who are missionaries, they are rich yet thier money they use to support thier ministry. being rich can be a blessing, not always a curse if your heart is in the right place.

Everything I have read says money is a curse and not a blessing.

what are your thoughts on 1Ti 6:17-18

Ahh! this sheds some light on what you are saying. I would like to read further on this.

In your opinion is it better to be rich or poor? Or should we just be happy no matter and non is better than the other?


Thank you <><

 

[Carico]

It isn't the rich man's parable I'm questiong. It is Christ's assertion that to be his disciples, we must sell everything we have and give to the poor. The post about feeding a family of 4 is no exception. The whole point of Jesus's command is the faith that we have faith that God will provide for our needs. If we first seek His kingdom and his righteousness, everything will be given unto us. I know this is ture. When i first got saved, I had $8.57 to my name. I was pregnant and couldn't get a job. When i read that passage, i instanly KNEW that he would provide for me. It was a fact. Since then, I have received hundreds of thousands of dollars in inheritance. I didn't even know I had relatives with that kind of money! I have NEVER gone hungry. But here's the rub. We cannot just go out and sell everything we have, it must be a response from our hearts not our wills. Otherwise we are back into obeying laws like the Pharisees did. Jesus said that the man who bought the field did it out of joy, rather than obedience. He was ready to accept the consequences. Not all of us are in that place yet, nor may all of us get there. Now that i have money, I am contantly convicted, but I also want to be discerning. God gives everything to us according to our needs. If I'm not ready to sell everything i have, it would be complete folly for me to do so.

 

[d0c markus]

Everything I have read says money is a curse and not a blessing.



Ahh! this sheds some light on what you are saying. I would like to read further on this.


Thank you <><

1Tim 6:9 -10

But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.

10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

By "root of all sorts of evil" indicates that money is not sinfull in itself but if not watched can lead you into sin.

And no problem..

 

[Katmando]

If I'm not ready to sell everything i have, it would be complete folly for me to do so.

Do you feel that this should be a goal of ours? Should we be striving for this?

 

[d0c markus]

It isn't the rich man's parable I'm questiong. It is Christ's assertion that to be his disciples, we must sell everything we have and give to the poor. The post about feeding a family of 4 is no exception. The whole point of Jesus's command is the faith that we have faith that God will provide for our needs. If we first seek His kingdom and his righteousness, everything will be given unto us. I know this is ture. When i first got saved, I had $8.57 to my name. I was pregnant and couldn't get a job. When i read that passage, i instanly KNEW that he would provide for me. It was a fact. Since then, I have received hundreds of thousands of dollars in inheritance. I didn't even know I had relatives with that kind of money! I have NEVER gone hungry. But here's the rub. We cannot just go out and sell everything we have, it must be a response from our hearts not our wills. Otherwise we are back into obeying laws like the Pharisees did. Jesus said that the man who bought the field did it out of joy, rather than obedience. He was ready to accept the consequences. Not all of us are in that place yet, nor may all of us get there. Now that i have money, I am contantly convicted, but I also want to be discerning. God gives everything to us according to our needs. If I'm not ready to sell everything i have, it would be complete folly for me to do so.

No doubt Christ rewarded you for your faith. Im not contending its wrong to give to the poor, i am contending that to give it all away is not what he meant. Im glad you have a discerning heart, and you are truley humble, you realize that money is not your source of happiness therefore will never control your life nor lead you into sin. Thats precisly what christ is talking about.

 

[d0c markus]

Do you feel that this should be a goal of ours? Should we be striving for this?

No, but you should strive for that attitude