Should Christian Anarchists attempt to hold a house church meeting?

Norman70

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Being interested in Christian Anarchy, but I am not prepared to call myself one since attaching a label can lead to institutionalization, I know that the home church movement is advocated by this approach to Christianity and the Bible. Even Jesus is sometimes considered to be an anarchist!
To help avoid eristic exchanges, which I am sure would not occur anyway anywhere on Christian Forums, I feel I need to point out that the the word anarchy should never be used in its pejorative sense, that meaning the absence of law and order, or chaos. Anarchism is a political ideology, on a par with Marxism in the 19th century, and continues to be studied at an academic level in the discipline of political science. There are many varieties of anarchism, my preferred one is referred to as epistemological anarchism, as advocated by Paul Feyerabend and is certainly non-violent. Leo Tolstoy is often said to have been a Christian Anarchist, and his writings were very much appreciated by Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jnr., for instance. If anyone wishes to discuss Christian Anarchism, there is also a thread running in the Christians only forum "Discussion and Debate", sub-forum "General Politics".
I am placing this post here on the advice of the moderators, as I was thinking of posting it in the "House Church & Cell Groups" forum. I am very interested in the threads in that forum, and will post there without mentioning my interest in any particular faith or theology. Because of the pejorative use of the word anarchy, when I talk in RL to other Christians about our Christian Faith I rarely mention Christian Anarchy, or my interest in it.
There are many very pertinent Scriptures which support the theology of Christian Anarchism, and I do refer to them in discussion with other Christians. However, I am not a proselytizer, and my wife and myself have found that when we invite people into our house, visiting us as part of their own Church's out-reach activities, they invariably push their own doctrines, and when they find out we would not join their Church and pay tithes, they do not come again. A Pentecostal minister admitted he runs his churches as a business, and he himself with his wife enjoy Cruise Ship vacations all over the world, every year. I am not saying they completely neglect the poor and needy, but there is no equality. Institutional churches are solely into the God business, and they are motivated solely by the devil.
But this is the world we live in. Jesus says we should be in this world but not part of it. My wife and myself try to abandon all aspirations to material goods and wealth, we pray to God to help the world avoid falling into civil disobedience and war, but the forces of evil are very strong and too many people think that our present society is OK. Of course there is much good work being done, especially by volunteers and first responders, but none of this changes things, in fact a lot of it is corrupt or only encourages the status quo.
I could write so much more! I guess the moderators were correct in telling me to post this in this forum, but I would not have indulged in this rant in the "House Church & Cell Groups" forum. I look forward to responses here.
 

Sabertooth

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"Christian Anarchy" sounds like an oxymoron to me.

Christian means "Jesus is Lord."
Anarchy means "having no ruler."
 
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Sabertooth

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Norman70

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Oh dear, we have some posters already who are not prepared to even look at the theology. There is plenty on the Internet discussing whether or not Christian Anarchism is an oxymoron. Christian Anarchists accept no human authority, but they completely accept the authority of God through Jesus.
The early meetings of Christians as described in Acts 4:32-37 were, I believe, totally anarchistic. I even suggested in a recent SDA Sabbath School, encouraged to discuss this by their own Quarterly, that their pastors should give their salaries to the common Christian pool, just as Barnabus did! It was treated as a joke, and I was told that it would not work! Possibly it could be done voluntarily, but that was unlikely to happen.
Of course it will not work, because we are all in sin and and we succumb to the temptations of the devil.
I notice in these Sabbath School meetings they are always organised like a mini-sermon, the leader talking most of the time and the rest of the group having little to say. This is totally contrary to how I was trained as a teacher in 1966, and also contrary to their own directives in their own Quarterly. However, most members prefer to say nothing, so where or how do we invite all believers to take up an opportunity to join in? A post in the "House Church & Cell Groups" forum described how his five year old son drew a picture of all the congregation asleep in a large bed, the bed being pushed by the pastor.
 
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Tolworth John

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Well you've seen a selection of replies, most making fun of your title.

I suspect if you sought to find Christians sympathetic to your beliefs you would attract just as much missplaced amusement.

If you are aware of a minister reunning a church as a business for his own benefit why not rock his boat.
Does his church understand and aprove of his practise?
 
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Halbhh

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Being interested in Christian Anarchy, but I am not prepared to call myself one since attaching a label can lead to institutionalization, I know that the home church movement is advocated by this approach to Christianity and the Bible. Even Jesus is sometimes considered to be an anarchist!
To help avoid eristic exchanges, which I am sure would not occur anyway anywhere on Christian Forums, I feel I need to point out that the the word anarchy should never be used in its pejorative sense, that meaning the absence of law and order, or chaos. Anarchism is a political ideology, on a par with Marxism in the 19th century, and continues to be studied at an academic level in the discipline of political science. There are many varieties of anarchism, my preferred one is referred to as epistemological anarchism, as advocated by Paul Feyerabend and is certainly non-violent. Leo Tolstoy is often said to have been a Christian Anarchist, and his writings were very much appreciated by Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jnr., for instance. If anyone wishes to discuss Christian Anarchism, there is also a thread running in the Christians only forum "Discussion and Debate", sub-forum "General Politics".
I am placing this post here on the advice of the moderators, as I was thinking of posting it in the "House Church & Cell Groups" forum. I am very interested in the threads in that forum, and will post there without mentioning my interest in any particular faith or theology. Because of the pejorative use of the word anarchy, when I talk in RL to other Christians about our Christian Faith I rarely mention Christian Anarchy, or my interest in it.
There are many very pertinent Scriptures which support the theology of Christian Anarchism, and I do refer to them in discussion with other Christians. However, I am not a proselytizer, and my wife and myself have found that when we invite people into our house, visiting us as part of their own Church's out-reach activities, they invariably push their own doctrines, and when they find out we would not join their Church and pay tithes, they do not come again. A Pentecostal minister admitted he runs his churches as a business, and he himself with his wife enjoy Cruise Ship vacations all over the world, every year. I am not saying they completely neglect the poor and needy, but there is no equality. Institutional churches are solely into the God business, and they are motivated solely by the devil.
But this is the world we live in. Jesus says we should be in this world but not part of it. My wife and myself try to abandon all aspirations to material goods and wealth, we pray to God to help the world avoid falling into civil disobedience and war, but the forces of evil are very strong and too many people think that our present society is OK. Of course there is much good work being done, especially by volunteers and first responders, but none of this changes things, in fact a lot of it is corrupt or only encourages the status quo.
I could write so much more! I guess the moderators were correct in telling me to post this in this forum, but I would not have indulged in this rant in the "House Church & Cell Groups" forum. I look forward to responses here.

The cost of the labeling (no matter the label, but especially for this one also) exceeds the value of the label, after we get past the one thing, or single word, like "believer" or "Christian". When we add another word, we are already losing ground, inside, in addition to outwardly.

So not only is this one modifying adjective label a problem, but so are all others too.

All, including "conservative" "Calvinist", but also all the rest like "Lutheran", "Baptist", and even "Catholic" (even though it was suppose to originally mean the very good thing of universal, or all-encompassing). Even for "Catholic" already the modifier is losing ground, getting away from the best name.

I know it's an effort, but we should try to discuss and talk without all the labels, as much as we can.

It's....different. Maybe instead of saying 'it's more work' (....maybe it's not more work!)...I should just say "it's different".
 
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Norman70

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We have a quip around here, "Anarchist Unite!" :doh:
I guess you are referring to individualist anarchism, Sabertooth, propounded by Max Stirner in his book "The Ego and Its Own". That is not my sort of anarchism. I do have a certain attraction to individualism, but to proclaim it as a personal philosophy is unattractive.
I read the Bible, and i cannot help but think that Jesus never wanted his church to become institutionalized. The universal church of Christ was well described in the SDA Quarterly to which I have already referred, and an opening sentence in that Quarterly frankly says that as Adventists we are not the universal church of Christ. To me the universal church of Christ is an anarchistic ideology, unachievable with the devil in control of this world, We can only wait for the Second Coming.
In the meantime, however, since I also believe we cannot have faith without works, we must do all we can to spread the words of the Gospel and show that institutional and established churches are the work of the devil.
 
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Norman70

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@Tolworth John. I feel that all established Churches are run as a business, otherwise they would not survive in this devil-controlled, materialist, consumer-oriented, and corrupt world.
You say that we should rock the minister's boat, but how can we do that when his congregation are spiritually asleep, and happily pay their tithes because they enjoy his preaching?
 
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com7fy8

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"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Ok, so first we in Jesus are called to be ruled by God's own peace in our hearts. God's peace is God's own harmony of almighty power of God Himself and His own love in us. So, we grow in this and become corrected into this, howsoever God pleases. This is Biblical theocracy, I would say, not anarchy.

But, also, Hebrews 13:17 says to be obedient to the ones who have the rule over us. And I find that this means obeying leaders who meet the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3:1-10. And we see in Acts how the church in dealing with an issue reached unanimous agreement . . . in dealing with whether the Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses.

So, God's way is in His peace with unanimous agreement. And in the first chapter of First Corinthians Paul says, to even those in Corinth, how God expects us to speak the same thing and be of the same mind. So, this is expected by God and possible with God our Heavenly Father.

So, in order to obey God in membership with one another, it is impossible to be without influence of other Christians. By the way, we also have >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

So, God wants us to mutually submit to one another . . . how God guides us to effect and submit to each other.

So, I would say that individualistic anarchy is not scriptural . . . in relating as family with other genuinely Christian people.

Also, independence can be an idol, which has deeply ruined people from being able to love and share and mutually submit as family.

But what about anarchy which means we do not let secular people rule us?

Our Apostle Paul took advantage of being ruled by certain rulers; he would go along with their authority in order to get their attention and then bring God's result. And in Genesis 37-50 we can see how Joseph took advantage of the evil ways that people used to control Joseph. And Jesus, of course, more or less submitted to how evil people supposed they were ruling and controlling Jesus, when in truth God used the passion of Christ for our salvation.

So, @Norman70, is this relevant to your inquiry, please?
 
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com7fy8

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Ones might claim that they never are ruled by this world's people; and they spend a lot of time pointing at how other people are wrong, in order to excuse themselves from submitting to those people. But this can mean their attention is being ruled by the people they make a project of criticizing.
 
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redleghunter

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Oh dear, we have some posters already who are not prepared to even look at the theology.
My apologies if I contributed to the disorderly proceedings here.
 
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Norman70

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@com7fy8. Many thanks for your interesting posts. I am in full agreement with you on the dismissal of individualist anarchism. It is not my cup of tea, and I am not a well-read Bible person therefore can easily accept it is not Scriptural.
However God did not want His people to have a human king, telling Samuel where that would lead, and they would be rejecting Him as their King.
Tolstoy describes the problem of human governments in his aptly entitled book "The Kingdom of God is Within You", and supports his views in his essay on anarchy by saying violent revolution is not what Jesus advocated in the Sermon on the Mount, but a moral revolution within more and more individuals who would then no longer demand the protection of earthly governments.
Nor did Jesus reject the problem of evil. He simply said to turn the other cheek.
 
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Sabertooth

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I read the Bible, and i cannot help but think that Jesus never wanted his church to become institutionalized.
I have problems with rejecting ALL institutionalism within/upon the Church, but I won't hijack your thread with my objections.
 
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com7fy8

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God did not want His people to have a human king, telling Samuel where that would lead, and they would be rejecting Him as their King.
yes

But God does use secular authority people. Romans 13. But we need how Jesus rules us to relate with ones in secular power.

a moral revolution within more and more individuals who would then no longer demand the protection of earthly governments.
I have understood that it is first the church's job to take care of people. And I am finding this can work the best by means of individuals personally helping ones in need, while sharing personally.

But this needs to be done the way Jesus rules. God is arranging events and provision and when and where and how He has us reaching and sharing with people.
 
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Tolworth John

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@Tolworth John. I feel that all established Churches are run as a business, otherwise they would not survive in this devil-controlled, materialist, consumer-oriented, and corrupt world.
You say that we should rock the minister's boat, but how can we do that when his congregation are spiritually asleep, and happily pay their tithes because they enjoy his preaching?

Depends what you mean by a buisness?
Each church has to raise thefunds to buy or rent premises, pay running costs, fuel insurance, ministry pay etc. It is a question ofhow effcient the elders are at dealing with this.
The money given is given to God for his work.

So as a church member one is entitled to ask what happens with any surplus between the church expencis and church giving.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Christian Anarchists accept no human authority, but they completely accept the authority of God through Jesus.
With this statement, you just proved it is anti-Scripture I think, since if they do as you say they do, they reject Scripture directly.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I am not a well-read Bible person therefore can easily accept it is not Scriptural.
However God did not want His people to have a human king
Seek Yahweh's Kingdom, and turn to Him in prayer asking Him for His meaning,
since He still required the subjects to obey His anointed King David.
There is much Scripture that anarchy(as you described it) is directly contrary to, without possibility of being in Christ Jesus Ekklesia ,
so reading all Scripture is certainly required, it seems, to let go of false teachings and learn what is truth.
Reading Scripture is not sufficient in itself, as Yahweh's Grace and Revelation from Him is required also.
 
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