Should a virgin marry a non virgin?

[Elderone]

Ask God for guidance, He will let you know what to do.

Prayer is the Christian's all-purpose-tool.

 

[Sketcher]

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins." - Exodus 22:16-17

"If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you." - Deuteronomy 22:13-21

Enter forgiveness

"As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." - Psalm 103:12

However, when people have sex, they have become one flesh. Forgiven or not, this is the consequence of sin. God may not count our sins againt us anymore once forgiven, but that does not undo the sin that was committed. Because of that, I couldn't marry a non-virgin unless certain conditions were met, because those are consequences I don't want to have to deal with. And this is my right, to pick and choose my mate they way I will. If anyone is going to judge me for that, I will let God judge you. I do not judge non-virgins when they marry.

 

[waterbear]

Cheating is a sin against someone else. It is considered adultery in the bible,a and your quite right we are required to forgive them, but not to stay with them. It is one of the few instances divorce is acceptable.

Fornication isn't the same. Fornciation is a sin against yourself and a sin againt God. It is not, in any way shape or form, a sin against a possible future partner.

A non-virgin is not required to apologise their future partner, because the sin has nothing to do with them. As such, who are you to keep count? To judge them? If they have repented sincerely, and God has seen fit to forgive them, you are not to hold judgement on them. It is not your place.

1st - Let's assume fornication is not sin. It's perfectly valid for something to be considered wrong and not be sin, that just means it's something inappropriate for you, but not something outlined in the Bible as inappropriate. For example, rap music is wrong to me - I don't enjoy listening to it. However, rap is not a sin.

2nd - Actions in this world have worldly consequences, which are associated with their wrongness, not their sin. Sin is between the individual and God. Wrong is between individuals, individuals and ideas, etc. Tangible examples of this include picking up an STD while engaging in fornication, killing somone, self-mutilation, etc. These actions also happen to be sin, however their forgiveness from God does not remove their secular consequences - the STD is still there, the person is still dead, and your body is still mutiliated. Reality keeps a perfect record of everything you've done, right and wrong. As I see it, there are also intangible consequences to everything we do - in the case of a non-virgin, the relationship will never be able to have the privacy a relationship with a virgin can have. As other's have pointed out, a relationship with a non-virgin can have benefits, experience for example. However, if I don't value the experience and highly value the privacy, then I've stated a preference or a requirement.

3rd - The wrongness (not sin) of something can be traced back to what is important to the individual who has decided something is wrong. Within Biblical constraints, an individual is free to assign rightness and wrongness as he/she sees fit. Incidently, it's often argued that it isn't necessary that an individual assign rightness and wrongness per the Bible, so long as the individual still avoids the sinful actions. Rightness and wrongness, as I hinted to in the second paragraph, are assigned per personal whim, they represent tradeoffs over which preferences act.

4th - An individual can assign marriage as something which should be life-long. This, to the individual, may be the right marriage. In this case, fornication becomes equivalent to adultry as being equivalently wrong (not sinful, wrong!).

To reiterate:

- A record will be maintained in this reality (though not with one's relationship with God). As such, I think individuals should marry each other per everything in that record, regardless of how horrible it is. And the horribleness of it will be driven by what each individual sees as right and wrong.

- Forgiveness is good will (wish someone the best), but should still incorporate keeping a record such that someone who periodically beats you, beats your children, or cheats on you. It can be argued that this record shouldn't be kept forever, but that becomes arbitrary as to when it should be willfully (since objectively it's forever) disgarded. For simplicity, I keep records for this entire life and the wrongness of an action is time and situation independent. I do this because if the wrongness is only temporary, it's not worth my concern. If I did this for everything wrong, I would have no discriminator by which to pick my close friends or a spouse (since no factor would be worth my concern).

 

[Cordelia]

lady of god, I'm not sure what you meen by decent person. I think in most cases someone that does fear God will be a virgin. Marriage is not ultimately about alot of things, but I think some things are hard to compromise what I expect from a possible future wife.
I'm not talking about someone that lost virginity to rape or anything. She could very well be the one, or she could still have the tendancy to sleep around and bring me down too.

mina, I'm not at the point that I love her. And if I did I think it would still be a problem.

christiankate, why isn't marrying a virgin practical? Because there hard to come by or something? I've always thought that God would want me to marry a really moral/virgin girl. However, I understand that you can repent and be moral/kinda pure after they've had sex. If I know for sure someone is brought into my life by God then I'd be fine with it. How can I tell?

Carri20, the past isn't controlling me. It could very well control the girl I'm interested in though. I think I will investigate. If I was going to hold anything over her head, I just wouldn't date her. I know we have all sinned, but this sin bothers me the most.

Hey Virginity isn't the same thing as purity. Purity is much, much more than what you've refrained from physically doing with other people. I don't know anything about the girl you mention, but I don't think you should view her simply as a non-virgin, or this sin as just a physical thing. If you've ever struggled with purity at all (and I mean, purity as a state of mind, too) try and understand what she might have gone through and support her as she commits to purity now. God bless.

 

[jasperbound]

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins." - Exodus 22:16-17

"If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you." - Deuteronomy 22:13-21

Enter forgiveness

"As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." - Psalm 103:12

However, when people have sex, they have become one flesh. Forgiven or not, this is the consequence of sin. God may not count our sins againt us anymore once forgiven, but that does not undo the sin that was committed. Because of that, I couldn't marry a non-virgin unless certain conditions were met, because those are consequences I don't want to have to deal with. And this is my right, to pick and choose my mate they way I will. If anyone is going to judge me for that, I will let God judge you. I do not judge non-virgins when they marry.

Does that count non-virgins who, through no fault of their own, lost their virginity (i.e. Deuteronomy 22:28-29)?

 

[jasperbound]

I'd marry a non-virgin. Chastity's great, but the lack of it wouldn't repel me from a woman I loved.

 

[Carri20]

I'd marry a non-virgin. Chastity's great, but the lack of it wouldn't repel me from a woman I loved.

See that, boys? That right there is a man.

 

[Sketcher]

Does that count non-virgins who, through no fault of their own, lost their virginity (i.e. Deuteronomy 22:28-29)?

The blame is not on them. However, there are different issues there that I would not want to deal with unless God did some major work.

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

I've always thought that God would want me to marry a really moral/virgin girl.

It might just be you. Go for it -- she sounds great!

 

[Carri20]

I've always thought that God would want me to marry a really moral/virgin girl.

Funny how DangerDave assumes "really moral" and "virgin" usually go together...when in fact they usually don't.

 

[DangerDave]

Carri20, excellent point. This was raised in a Christian home, she knew better. I'm not sure what you meen by my judgement not being all grins and giggles. I do know the "judge not or your sinning ass will be judged" verse though. I'm not trying to judge, maybe I am, but its not my intention. I haven't made up my mind. I repect non virgins, I'm just not sure if I'm going to date one. I do see her for the girl she is now. If I thought she was still how she was before I wouldn't even consider dating her.

chritiankate, I'm not sure if this is the one for me. I do think that she has been put into my life for some reason. We talked for hours, her knowledge of the Bible is just insane. She's certainly a strong Christian now, her upbringing really shows. Her dad is the author of a couple Christian books even.

waterbear, since theres no scripture about this, I think your right. I'm not sure if her being a non virgin is going to be a problem for me. I'm thinking now that everyone makes mistakes, some just worse then others. Still if she did it like a ridiculous ammount of times I wouldn't consider dating her. I know your examples are supposed to meen something I'm just not sure what.

london boy, I know since we all have sinned we are all bad. But compared to a non virgin I do consider myself more sexually pure. I always thought that if I saved myself God would hook my up with someone who has done the same, maybe I thought wrong. I definetely can't restrain myself from loving someone just because I found out that she has had sex before. Whether I can love her or not is not an issue for me.

Marissa, I don't think she requires to give me an apology. I agree with what you say. I don't think of myself as keeping count, I'm just making sure I'm not going to date a prostitute or someone with some std's. If a girl tells me she's a virgin, I think, wow, she a hardcore Christian. Which is what I'm looking for. If there not she could still be a hardcore Christian, but it still raises alot of yellow flags. I will not date someone unless I have judged/analysized their character and have determined that they could be a suitable wife for me, I think this is what dating is all about. Will this person be right for me, will this person cheat on me, will this person make a good mother, etc.

lady of god, okay, so someone who is walking with God, is what you meen by a decent person. For the record I think she is very decent now too. No, I have never lied. Whoops, theres another one. Okay, I've lied, in the past maybe. I would never think of using her past to hurt her. She's been through more than enough pain already. I agree, even though I may marry a virgin, she could still very well be someone with alot of dark things in her past.

twistedsketch, I'm not sure what the Bible meens by becoming one flesh. Is it some kind of spiritual connection thing? What conditions do you have if you're going to marrying a non virgin? I think we all have the right to pick our future mate too. But if God is like "maybe you should pick this one" I most likely will pick her. I figure no matter what the situation, as long as I'm on Gods path I'll be alright. But sometimes its hard to know what God wants me to do.

waterbear, I have no idea what you meen by privacy. I'm not concerned with experience. My future wife will get more than enough with me. I'm certainly worried about possible std's, I don't know if she has any, but if she did, I don't care how much I like or love her, I would not date her anymore. I don't want any diseases. I don't understand your 3rd and 4th paragraph. Can you reword those?

Cordelia, great point. I was thinking about that alot myself. I'm not sure if I think virgininty is the same as purity or not. For the record, I don't mind dating someone who isn't mentally pure. I just mind dating someone who isn't a virgin. I think theres purity of the mind and a purity of the body. The purity of the body is definetely what bothers me. Maybe because I have definetely lost the purity of my mind a long time ago.

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback. I have decided I will date this person as long as she doesn't have any std's. Basically I like her too much to not date or at least consider dating her. I guess when you love or maybe just really like someone, your ideals don't really matter that much. Again, thanks for all the help.

 

[Radagast]

One more thing.. Whatever you do, please don't hold the fact that she's a nonvirgin over her head. I myself am a nonvirgin, and believe me it's not a cool thing to do. That would be like a thief holding a lie over your head. We've all sinned.

 

[Marissa]

1st - Let's assume fornication is not sin.

Okie....

It's perfectly valid for something to be considered wrong and not be sin, that just means it's something inappropriate for you, but not something outlined in the Bible as inappropriate. For example, rap music is wrong to me - I don't enjoy listening to it. However, rap is not a sin.

No, rap is not a sin. Nor it is "wrong" simply because you don't like it. Something being "wrong" requires a moral judgement against it. "I don't like it" isn't a moral judgement.

I don't like abstract paintings, but that doesn't make someone who paints them wrong to do so. Just foolish to try and sell them to me.

I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of this paragraph. Fornication is a sin. That is why it is wrong. All sins are wrong.

2nd - Actions in this world have worldly consequences, which are associated with their wrongness, not their sin.

No. Actions have consequences in this world, regardless of whether they're wrong or right. Whether a consequence is negative or positive isn't necessarily related to whether it is wrong or right. Some actions have consequence which are irrelevant and other consequences that aren't even noticeable. Again, not necessarily related to the actions rightness or wrongness.

If I choose to preach on the street I get negative responses. That doesn't make it wrong. If I have a piece of my mothers chocolate without asking that is wrong, but will rarely come with a consequence. If I have an emotional day and get easily upset by someone and they are upset by my being upset, that is a negative consequence, but I'm not wrong to be emotional (just female).

Sin is between the individual and God. Wrong is between individuals, individuals and ideas, etc.

Sin also involves others. If I choose to beat someone over the head I have sinned against them, as well as against God. That is why I am required to ask forgiveness from both.

Tangible examples of this include picking up an STD while engaging in fornication, killing somone, self-mutilation, etc. These actions also happen to be sin, however their forgiveness from God does not remove their secular consequences - the STD is still there, the person is still dead, and your body is still mutiliated.

The dead body is why it is a sin.
The mutilated body is why it can be argued it is a sin.
The STD is (I believe) one reason behind why fornication is a sin.

I do not understand how you can consider the consequences separate to the sin. The consequences are not "secular" consequences. They are consequences of sin.

As I see it, there are also intangible consequences to everything we do - in the case of a non-virgin, the relationship will never be able to have the privacy a relationship with a virgin can have. As other's have pointed out, a relationship with a non-virgin can have benefits, experience for example. However, if I don't value the experience and highly value the privacy, then I've stated a preference or a requirement.

Which has nothing to do with fornication being adultery.

I don't imagine the reason most people in this thread would marry a non-virgin is because of experience. Nor do I think that is the reason virgins who said they would marry non-virgins would do so.

I have never consented to sex with a man. Yet, I would marry a non-virgin. Not because of his experience, but because I accept people make mistakes and I am not to hold judgment over them. Especially when they have repented of their sin and the sin was not against me.

3rd - The wrongness (not sin) of something can be traced back to what is important to the individual who has decided something is wrong. Within Biblical constraints, an individual is free to assign rightness and wrongness as he/she sees fit.

Because God is not fit to determine "right and wrong" properly?

I do not understand why you believe you (or I) are more qualified to judge whether something is right or wrong than God.

But then, I don't understand how you distinguish between wrong and sin either.

Incidently, it's often argued that it isn't necessary that an individual assign rightness and wrongness per the Bible, so long as the individual still avoids the sinful actions. Rightness and wrongness, as I hinted to in the second paragraph, are assigned per personal whim, they represent tradeoffs over which preferences act.

That it because it is not defining "right and wrong" that matters. It's whether or not one sins. Ofcourse, if you define "right and wrong" contary to the bible, there is a very good chance of sinning. Especially given those who do assign it according to the bible sin.

4th - An individual can assign marriage as something which should be life-long. This, to the individual, may be the right marriage. In this case, fornication becomes equivalent to adultry as being equivalently wrong (not sinful, wrong!).

So, not only do you get to define right and wrong, you get to define marriage and adultery and fornication.

Right.

You make no sense what so ever. Fornication is described in the bible. Adultery is explained in the bible. Marriage is determined by the bible. You can not change their meanings on a whim.

 

[the_man]

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins." - Exodus 22:16-17

"If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you." - Deuteronomy 22:13-21

Enter forgiveness

"As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." - Psalm 103:12

However, when people have sex, they have become one flesh. Forgiven or not, this is the consequence of sin. God may not count our sins againt us anymore once forgiven, but that does not undo the sin that was committed. Because of that, I couldn't marry a non-virgin unless certain conditions were met, because those are consequences I don't want to have to deal with. And this is my right, to pick and choose my mate they way I will. If anyone is going to judge me for that, I will let God judge you. I do not judge non-virgins when they marry.

I don't understand how you get to that sentence that I highlighted from the passages you have presented. But while you do explain that to me, I'd like to point out the first passage. It says 'if a man sleeps with a woman he is not married to, THEN he must marry her' instead of 'if a man sleeps with a woman he is not married to he is now married to her'. Sex does not make the one flesh (or marriage), a covenant relationship does.

The major issue of having sex out of wedlock (from the passage) is the disgrace it brings to the families.

 

[the_man]

You make no sense what so ever. Fornication is described in the bible. Adultery is explained in the bible. Marriage is determined by the bible. You can not change their meanings on a whim.

But he likes to. Therefore I suggest you pick your battles with him.

 

[the_man]

I'm no where near that point, but I only date for possible marriage hookups. I'm a virgin and the person I'm considering dating isn't. She has been a Christian all her life she had a really bad year and had sex with a couple guys. She's changed now and has the Jesus action all over the place. I am very condident she is true and is back on track with Jesus. I think that God put her in my life for a purpose, I just don't know what that purpose is. She really can help and has helped me with my walk with God.

Anyways, should I just date someone who isn't a virgin. Or should I hold out to find someone that is? Is it really all that important? I know it is for me. If someone as horny as me has held out all this time, I really expect to marry a chick that has also kept pure. It seems impossible to find a chick that hasn't had sex before. Should I compromise this marry a virgin thing?

Oh yeah. This is not the same girl I posted about earlier. What do you guys think? Any help would be sweet. Thanks.

Dave, marry who you want. None of us can tell you who to marry, that should really be between you and God.

I only have a few problems with a virgin that says they will never marry a non-virgin. The first problem is that virginity is a technical state, one could have performed all sorts of sexual acts known to man but technically could still be a virgin. The second problem is that chastity is a higher calling that virginity. As you have seen from the first problem, a virgin can be far from chaste. But also a non virgin could be chaste. Chastity is independant than virginity and should be the more important issue.

 

[Sketcher]

I don't understand how you get to that sentence that I highlighted from the passages you have presented. But while you do explain that to me, I'd like to point out the first passage. It says 'if a man sleeps with a woman he is not married to, THEN he must marry her' instead of 'if a man sleeps with a woman he is not married to he is now married to her'. Sex does not make the one flesh (or marriage), a covenant relationship does.

I should have added this verse, I'm sorry: "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one." - Mark 10:7-8

I know that doesn't mean they are married, but that they must marry. If they are one, they must make it official. If you've got one of those sins on your record and marry someone else, yes that is sin. Forgiveness takes it off your official record, but you are still one, so that makes the situation a bit hazy for me.

twistedsketch, I'm not sure what the Bible meens by becoming one flesh. Is it some kind of spiritual connection thing? What conditions do you have if you're going to marrying a non virgin? I think we all have the right to pick our future mate too. But if God is like "maybe you should pick this one" I most likely will pick her. I figure no matter what the situation, as long as I'm on Gods path I'll be alright. But sometimes its hard to know what God wants me to do.

Spiritual/emotional/physical bond. I've never done it so I can't really explain it, let alone do the concept justice. The conditions I have for mate is if she's not a virgin, her former partners had better be dead, and making sure of that is an ugly business. Besides, as chivalrous as it may be, tracking down the exes to shoot them in the head so I can have my lady is kinda illegal and kinda murder. So it's much more useful for me to only date virgins. Besides, even if an ex did die, it would also depend on the girl. If she's a young widow who was pure before marraige, during marraige, and after her husband died, sure she's be an option. She hasn't perverted the concept of sex in her mind by doing some of the things that drunk coeds are known for. If there were a woman who was repentant of that stuff and the other guys were dead, she'd need some form of rehab in addition to repentance - so she'll treat sex in a holy, respectful way.

As for "God's will" - I need solid Biblical evidence before I am going to be convinced something is God's will or not. I've fooled myself with head games before, thinking what I badly wanted was God's will and it wasn't. You can bet Satan had fun with that. Since he can also pose as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) I don't give creedance to anything and everything that claims to be God's will very easily.

 

[the_man]

I should have added this verse, I'm sorry: "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one." - Mark 10:7-8

Contrary to popular belief, that passage isn't talking about sex. It is talking about relationships. You leave the relationship you had with your father and mother to be united with your wife to become a new relationship.

I know that doesn't mean they are married, but that they must marry. If they are one, they must make it official. If you've got one of those sins on your record and marry someone else, yes that is sin. Forgiveness takes it off your official record, but you are still one, so that makes the situation a bit hazy for me.

I'm glad you know it doesn't mean they are married; that's a start. But you are making two sins out of one. The only sin is the fornication. Not marrying that person is not a sin. In the passage in your previous post, the parents can decide not give their daughter to the man that had sex with her, are they causing either of them to sin? No, they are not. The sin has already occured, if she is pregnant, they would be more apt to make the man marry her so that someone takes care of her or they might make him marry her because their daughter no longer has the virginity status which is most sought after. But he not marrying her or she not marrying him is not a sin.

 

[Sketcher]

Contrary to popular belief, that passage isn't talking about sex. It is talking about relationships. You leave the relationship you had with your father and mother to be united with your wife to become a new relationship.

The two are inseperable.

"Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'" - 1 Cor 6:16

Even a fling with a prostitute - no relationship here - counts.

I'm glad you know it doesn't mean they are married; that's a start. But you are making two sins out of one. The only sin is the fornication. Not marrying that person is not a sin. In the passage in your previous post, the parents can decide not give their daughter to the man that had sex with her, are they causing either of them to sin? No, they are not. The sin has already occured, if she is pregnant, they would be more apt to make the man marry her so that someone takes care of her or they might make him marry her because their daughter no longer has the virginity status which is most sought after. But he not marrying her or she not marrying him is not a sin.

The sin has occured, and the father is the young lady's way out of it. Unless Dad forbade the marraige, the guy she was with is the guy she has to marry.

 

[Carri20]

I have decided I will date this person as long as she doesn't have any std's. Basically I like her too much to not date or at least consider dating her. I guess when you love or maybe just really like someone, your ideals don't really matter that much.

Wow, I'm shocked...but in a good way. Good for you.