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Should a christian ever say to someone that they are not elect?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by dms1972, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

    Simply that. Is it ever right to say to a non-christian that they are not elect? I don't mean by that someone saying "I am not sure" or "I don't know if you are elect...", but just to say without qualification "you're not elect".

    Related question can anyone know another is not elect? Obviously if they answer to that is no then it can never be right to say to another "your not elect".
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  2. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding Supporter

    Eastern Orthodox
    Absolutely not.
    Absolutely not.
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  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    We do not know who all the elect are. We can know if we and others are if we believe in Christ and live overcoming lifestyles.
  4. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Member

    You can say you think they aren't or have no proof of being elect/saved yet, then you can point out that they can repent.

    I think you can know if another is not saved, by the words they say and their actions, with some it's hard though. But whether they're elect or not, I'd say you have to be careful, because that's like saying they can't repent (which should be the goal, to make them repent, I would think).
  5. IntriKate

    IntriKate Member

    I doubt Jesus would want anyone to elevate themselves and assume they know what he knows.
  6. KateforChrist

    KateforChrist Koalas are NOT bears

    In response to the OP:

    NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!
  7. Not David

    Not David Der Ewige Katechumene

    United States
    What if they say the same thing to you?
  8. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    What do you suppose some number of Christians were thinking about Saul before Jesus appeared to him? :)
  9. danbuter

    danbuter Member Supporter

    United States
    If you believe that only a few people actually go to heaven, odds are you're not one of them. There have been millions of "better" Christians than you or I, and if only the best get in, we're in trouble. This is why I complete reject the whole predestination argument.
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  10. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

    I have had this said to me, some years ago. Undoubtedly I was very antagonistic toward the christians I was with at the time, which was partly because of anxiety and depression and frustrations in finding help for my problems. I hope I have not ever said it to anyone, surely if I ever did it was when a child before I knew what I was talking about.
  11. Heavenhome

    Heavenhome Well-Known Member Supporter

    Definitely no to both.
    We are not God
    who is the ONLY one who knows.
  12. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

    Good day,

    Well it is fools endeavor to prove a negative.

    But, the positive objective reality of those who are the Elect of God.

    They do repent as they have been granted the gift of repentance, and they do believe as they have been granted Faith. They have been adopted as Sons by God and these gifts have a very defined purpose by God in their lives so we see the effects of the gifts in their lives.

    God alone is the primary and effective cause of both the Elects believing and repenting. His purposes can not fail.

    In Him,

  13. WebersHome

    WebersHome Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    "If anyone love not The Lord, let him be accursed." (1Cor 16:22)

    One's love of The Lord is exemplified by loyalty.

    John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

    John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

    John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

    Does a Muslim have to be a terrorist to be accursed? No; they only have to be a loyal follower of Muhammad ibn `Abdullāh instead of a loyal follower of Jesus Christ; same goes for Atheists, Nonreligious, Baha'i, Buddhists, Chinese Universalists, Confucianists, Jains, Kabbalah mystics, Shintoists, Spiritists, Taoists, Zoroastrians, Jews, Sikhs, and Hindus-- they're all accursed and there is nothing to be gained in arguing about it.

    How many people am I talking about? Well, as of mid 2014, worldwide there were:

    550,000 Scientologists
    1,500,000 Mormons
    8,200,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
    7,794,000 Baha'i
    515,951,000 Buddhists
    451,292,000 Chinese Folk Religionists
    8,424,000 Confucianists
    974,597,000 Hindus
    5,567,000 Jains
    14,142,000 Jews
    1,673,590 Muslims
    2,819,000 Shintoists
    24,918,000 Sikhs
    14,183,000 Spiritists
    8,660,000 Taoists
    196,000 Zoroastrians
    828,594,000 Nonreligious
    692,111,000 Agnostics
    136,483,000 Atheists.

    The grand total of just those categories alone is 5,369,071,000

    If those figures are in the ball park, and if classical Christianity is the reality; then a minimum of at least 75% of the earth's 2014 population of 7.2 billion people didn't love The Lord; ergo: they were accursed right then-- no delay and no waiting period --because the grammatical tense of 1Cor 16:22 is present tense rather than future.

    NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are Christians, yes, but not in the classical sense.

    Joseph Smith's movement is a spin-off; in other words: there's some classical Christianity in Mormonism, but comprises only a portion of Mormonism. The rest of it is extreme, to say the least.

    Neither do Jehovah's Witnesses qualify as Christians in the classical sense. Charles Taze Russell's movement is a spin-off too. There's some classical Christianity in the Watchtower Society's doctrines, but comprises only a portion of Russell's doctrines; and his slant on it is very peculiar.