"She who is in Babylon..." 1 Peter 5:13

What city is "Babylon" mentioned in 1 Peter 5:13?

  • 1st century Rome

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LittleLambofJesus

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There appears to be a lot of controversy concerning whether or not Peter was ever in Rome.
Excluding early church "tradition", the only Biblical reference I could find is this controversial verse in 1Peter.

[You can check various translations and commentaries on "biblehub"]

1 Peter 5:13 She who is in Babylon, chosen together with you, sends you her greetings, and so does my son Mark.

1Pe 5:13
She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.

Here are just a few snips from some commentators on it, but as this thread progresses, I am hoping we can further solve what City this "Mystery Babylon is symbolizing. Thanks to all those who post their views on this [and please vote in my poll].

Verse 13. - The Church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; literally, the co-elect in Babylon ἡ ἐν Βαβυλῶνι συνεκλεκτή. The word "Church" is given in no manuscripts with the remarkable exception of the Sinaitic; the rest have simply "the co-elect." We ask - What word is to be supplied, "Church" or "sister"? Some think that St, Peter's wife (comp. Matthew 8:14; 1 Corinthians 9:5) is intended, or some other well-known Christian woman (comp. 2 John 1). In favor of this view is the following salutation from Marcus. It is more natural to join together the names of two persons than to couple a Church with an individual. Also it scorns exceedingly improbable that such a word as "Church" should be omitted (a word, we may remark, which occurs nowhere in St. Peter's Epistles), and the ellipse left to be filled up by the readers. On the other hand, it is said to be unlikely that a humble Galilaean woman should be described as "the co-elect in Babylon." This argument would have considerable weight if the apostle were writing from large and well-known Church, like that at Rome; but it is quite possible that "the co-elect" might be the only Christian woman, or the one best known among a very small number in Babylon.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
The church that is at Babylon,.... The Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Arabic versions, supply the word "church", as we do. Some, by "Babylon", understand Rome, which is so called, in a figurative sense, in the book of the Revelations: this is an ancient opinion; so Papias understood it, as (e) Eusebius relates; but that Peter was at Rome, when he wrote this epistle, cannot be proved, nor any reason be given why the proper name of the place should be concealed, and a figurative one expressed. It is best therefore to understand it literally, of Babylon in Assyria, the metropolis of the dispersion of the Jews, and the centre of it, to whom the apostle wrote; and where, as the minister of the circumcision, he may be thought to reside, here being a number of persons converted and formed into a Gospel church state, whereby was fulfilled the prophecy in Psalm 87:4 perhaps this church might consist chiefly of Jews, which might be the reason of the apostle's being here,.................
 

Citizen of the Kingdom

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C0-chosen as a Greek word and its definite article are feminine. Chosen to what 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9; 2 John (complete book) ; Romans 16:13; Romans 8:33; Ephesians 1:4

It's unlikely that it means anything about Rome since at that time they were both identified as each. It wasn't until later that John tagged the name to Rome.
 
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rockytopva

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It appears there were two missionary teams....

Luke and Paul
Mark and Peter

I am wondering if Peter did make it to Rome as the Oriental Orthodox church was started by Saint Mark the Evangelist, Peter's companion on up to his martyrdom. Apparently the Gospel of Mark was written by notes that Mark had taken in listening to Peter's sermons.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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C0-chosen as a Greek word and its definite article are feminine. Chosen to what 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9; 2 John (complete book) ; Romans 16:13; Romans 8:33; Ephesians 1:4

It's unlikely that it means anything about Rome since at that time they were both identified as each. It wasn't until later that John tagged the name to Rome.
I have heard some Christians believe that Rome is that great City in Revelation or the Vatican, perhaps because of the Roman currency denarius is mentioned?
However, it could be symbolizing the siege of 1st century Jerusalem by the Romans, which caused scarcity of food/famine or high prices;

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

....... The choenix appears to have been the food allotted to one man for a day; while the denarius was the pay of a soldier or of a common labourer for one day (Matthew 20:2, "He agreed with the labourers for a penny a day,"............. The choenix was the eighth part of the modius, and a denarius would usually purchase a modius of wheat.
The price given, therefore, denotes great scarcity, though not an entire absence of food, since a man's wages would barely suffice to obtain him food..............

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.........

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal..........
"Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but for yourselves and fur your children ;
for, behold! the days are coming in which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts that never gave suck."
Luke xxiii. 29.

Rev 9:6
And in those days men will seek death and will not find it;
they will long to die, and death flees from them.


Reve 18:8
by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine;
and in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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I have heard some Christians believe that Rome is that great City in Revelation or the Vatican, perhaps because of the Roman currency denarius is mentioned?
However, it could be symbolizing the siege of 1st century Jerusalem by the Romans, which caused scarcity of food/famine or high prices;

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

....... The choenix appears to have been the food allotted to one man for a day; while the denarius was the pay of a soldier or of a common labourer for one day (Matthew 20:2, "He agreed with the labourers for a penny a day,"............. The choenix was the eighth part of the modius, and a denarius would usually purchase a modius of wheat.
The price given, therefore, denotes great scarcity, though not an entire absence of food, since a man's wages would barely suffice to obtain him food..............

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.........

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal..........
"Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but for yourselves and fur your children ;
for, behold! the days are coming in which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts that never gave suck."
Luke xxiii. 29.

Rev 9:6
And in those days men will seek death and will not find it;
they will long to die, and death flees from them.


Reve 18:8
by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine;
and in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
1 Peter is traditionally thought to have been written from his time spent as bishop of Rome but could just as well be taken at face value than anagorically. Babylon meaning Babylon.
The “elect resident aliens” in the first verse were included as Roman provinces of Asia Minor. They were “exiles of the Dispersion”, “maligned”, “reviled”and were urged to “live in reverent fear during the time of your exile" and to defend one’s faith “with gentleness and reverence”

Peter simply calls himself an apostle, not bishop of Rome or Antioch. A “fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed” Most likely it was written during the Neronean Persecution (Nero AD 62-64) which would be later into his old age and before the collapse of Jerusalem. Especially seen in the light of Peter seeking a conciliatory state of addressing the situation which would have seemed impossible at a later date. 1 Peter 2:13-17

I can't see what denirios would have to do with any of it ttytt.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Can someone explain the use of "denarius" in Rev 6:6?
Does that not mean that 1st century Rome is somehow involved in Revelation, perhaps against that great City "Babylon/Jerusalem" ? Thanks

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

The 1st destruction of Jerusalem appears very similar to the destruction of Jerusalem by the King of Babylon:

Ezra 5:12
“But because our fathers provoked the God of heaven to wrath, He gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, the Chaldean, who destroyed this temple and carried the people away to Babylon.

Ezek 17:12
“Say now to the rebellious house: ‘Do you not know what these things mean?'
Tell them, ‘Indeed the king of Babylon went to Jerusalem and took its king and princes, and led them with him to Babylon.

What I particular fascinating is how the Roman General, Titus, actually mentioned God having aided his taken of the City [remembering that God allowed the Babylonian army to take Jerusalem in the OT]

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.......

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the City and its fortifications and while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

After this he commanded that the City should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory. There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection. Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged.........................................

 
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LittleLambofJesus

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1 Peter is traditionally thought to have been written from his time spent as bishop of Rome but could just as well be taken at face value than anagorically. Babylon meaning Babylon.
The “elect resident aliens” in the first verse were included as Roman provinces of Asia Minor. They were “exiles of the Dispersion”, “maligned”, “reviled”and were urged to “live in reverent fear during the time of your exile" and to defend one’s faith “with gentleness and reverence”

Peter simply calls himself an apostle, not bishop of Rome or Antioch. A “fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed”
Most likely it was written during the Neronean Persecution (Nero AD 62-64) which would be later into his old age and before the collapse of Jerusalem.
Especially seen in the light of Peter seeking a conciliatory state of addressing the situation which would have seemed impossible at a later date. 1 Peter 2:13-17

I can't see what denirios would have to do with any of it ttytt.
Interesting.
Thank you for that insightful and informative post.
According to Peter in this verse, he was to shortly die after writing this epistle. When do historical records have him dying?

2 peter 1:14
Having known that speedily is the putting off/apoqesiV <595> of the booth/skhnw-matoV <4638> of me,
according as also the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, makes evident to me.
 
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