Share ideas for evangelizing

[TheOldWays]

I'd like to try to read thorugh the Quran so I at least know, first-hand, what
it says, but the few passages I've read just come across like it's the Old
Testament all over again.

-

it has a real OT vibe for sure. then again, when I was a Christian I liked the OT alot, so that might have something to do with it.

 

[cloudyday2]

I remember when I first read an English translation of the Quran, I felt an overwhelming peace that God was talking directly to me through it. It was really intense. I became a Muslim shortly thereafter. I am not a Muslim anymore but I can attest to the power of holy books. The Bible itself, while enjoying my time reading it, just didn't have the same 'punch' the Quran did. Perhaps because I have been reading the Bible for many years while the Quran was a new experience.

That's interesting. To be honest, I think it is the style of writing. The gospel of John has a lot phrases of the form "A is B ... and B is A ...". The words sound wise regardless of the idea behind the words. The quotes I've seen from the Quran seem a bit like that. I've heard it is in a poetic style.

 

[dlamberth]

That's interesting. To be honest, I think it is the style of writing. The gospel of John has a lot phrases of the form "A is B ... and B is A ...". The words sound wise regardless of the idea behind the words. The quotes I've seen from the Quran seem a bit like that. I've heard it is in a poetic style.

My understanding is that the Arabic version of the Quran sings when recited. Arabic is a spiritual language. The English version, because it's English (which isn't a spiritual language) is pretty dry by comparison.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I remember when I first read an English translation of the Quran, I felt an overwhelming peace that God was talking directly to me through it.

It's funny how literature and poetry touch different people in contrary ways. While I can abstractly acknowledge the artistic craftsmanship of the Quran, I do not feel moved or inspired by it at all. (I feel the same way about opera, for example. It's high art, it takes considerable skill, it's profound - but it's just not for me.)

The Quran's flowery language, its elliptic style, its endless repetition of the same phrases generates annoyance rather than inspiration in me. I love some forms of poetry and poetic language, but this "holy" text constantly prompts me to want to shout: "Get to the point already!!!"

Thus, even without the crass legalism, the systemic sexism, and the micro-management inherent to Islam, it's never been even remotely tempting to me.
I guess I just don't "tick" like Arabs, nor do I wish to.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

My understanding is that the Arabic version of the Quran sings when recited. Arabic is a spiritual language. The English version, because it's English (which isn't a spiritual language) is pretty dry by comparison.

Interestingly enough, I gain the most inspiration from English. Wordsworth's and Blake's poetry have given me more than the Quran ever could, for example.
I do not think there is such a thing as "spiritual languages" or "aspiritual languages". Individual dispositions apply. I, for one, have little patience for overbearing abundance (which is why I have got little affinity for Indian culture, but love the subdued simplicity of Japan), feeling that it transgresses into kitsch-territory: style without substance. Empty ornamentation.

 

[cloudyday2]

Interestingly enough, I gain the most inspiration from English. Wordsworth's and Blake's poetry have given me more than the Quran ever could, for example.
I do not think there is such a thing as "spiritual languages" or "aspiritual languages". Individual dispositions apply. I, for one, have little patience for overbearing abundance (which is why I have got little affinity for Indian culture, but love the subdued simplicity of Japan), feeling that it transgresses into kitsch-territory: style without substance. Empty ornamentation.

My understanding is that the Dhammapada is deliberately written in a very bland style so that the ideas are most important. It seemed to be a very uninspiring read for me, but Buddhists think it is an important text.

 

[cloudyday2]

I became a Muslim shortly thereafter.

I've been meaning to ask you this. You said that you were a Christian when you joined CF, and I don't think CF existed earlier than 2000 or so? In the last 17 years you left Christianity and seemed to have become deeply involved in a wide variety of different religions - Islam, occultism, Buddhism, etc. That's really impressive to me. It's taken me almost 10 years to only partially extricate myself from my Christian indoctrination. You covered a lot of territory in a short time. LOL

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

My deconversion was an organic process, not a deep rift or breach. Yet it certainly did not take me a decade. It was more like growing up: Christianity simply became too small for me.

 

[TheOldWays]

It's funny how literature and poetry touch different people in contrary ways. While I can abstractly acknowledge the artistic craftsmanship of the Quran, I do not feel moved or inspired by it at all. (I feel the same way about opera, for example. It's high art, it takes considerable skill, it's profound - but it's just not for me.)

The Quran's flowery language, its elliptic style, its endless repetition of the same phrases generates annoyance rather than inspiration in me. I love some forms of poetry and poetic language, but this "holy" text constantly prompts me to want to shout: "Get to the point already!!!"

Thus, even without the crass legalism, the systemic sexism, and the micro-management inherent to Islam, it's never been even remotely tempting to me.
I guess I just don't "tick" like Arabs, nor do I wish to.

For sure. I agree with you now. The book does little for me currently, as do most religious texts. I think I was looking for something at the time and the Quran provided that. Plus I love whiskey and Islam is pretty to the point on alcohol consumption.

 

[cloudyday2]

My deconversion was an organic process, not a deep rift or breach. Yet it certainly did not take me a decade. It was more like growing up: Christianity simply became too small for me.

LOL 10 years probably is an outlier. I'm still not done either. Actually it's even more than 10 years, because I initially lost faith in my early 20s which was 30 years ago. But I haven't been very focused on the issue until the last 10 years.

 

[TheOldWays]

I've been meaning to ask you this. You said that you were a Christian when you joined CF, and I don't think CF existed earlier than 2000 or so? In the last 17 years you left Christianity and seemed to have become deeply involved in a wide variety of different religions - Islam, occultism, Buddhism, etc. That's really impressive to me. It's taken me almost 10 years to only partially extricate myself from my Christian indoctrination. You covered a lot of territory in a short time. LOL

After I left Christianity there was probably a void I had to fill. So I tried every religion I could find to replace it. Nothing really stuck, but it was a good learning experience. Eventually I started learning about energy pendulums and egregores. Basically power structures that exist by attracting adherents to them and feeding off their energy. In return for you giving them your energy, they give you those typical feelings and simulations you get when you belong to something like a church or political party, etc. (sense of purpose, belonging, self identification, etc). So now I just try and avoid pendulums and egregores (hard to do in a world made up of them) in hopes of further self discovery.

 

[Zoness]

Interestingly enough, I gain the most inspiration from English. Wordsworth's and Blake's poetry have given me more than the Quran ever could, for example.
I do not think there is such a thing as "spiritual languages" or "aspiritual languages". Individual dispositions apply. I, for one, have little patience for overbearing abundance (which is why I have got little affinity for Indian culture, but love the subdued simplicity of Japan), feeling that it transgresses into kitsch-territory: style without substance. Empty ornamentation.

Bolding mine just because I want to touch on it. I can appreciate Indian spirituality and literature for what it is and I work very closely with a lot of Indians on a daily basis so I know a lot about it.

However I relate on a whole other level with the Japanese approach to spiritual matters. It's hard to describe but from the animistic symbolism so the matter-of-fact approach to religion or lack of in daily life is something that I've always felt at home with. Not that I'd necessarily fit into Japanese culture as it has many unwritten and tight social rules but I've always found their approach to their own religious very inspiring and frankly similar to my own.

You're right, flowy language doesn't do it for me. To be sure reading the Quran was an interesting experience but it's hard to detach it from it's historical baggage.

 

[ananda]

My understanding is that the Dhammapada is deliberately written in a very bland style so that the ideas are most important. It seemed to be a very uninspiring read for me, but Buddhists think it is an important text.

The Dhammapada isn't very poetical, but I don't find that it was written for that purpose. It seems that its main function is to serve as a summary of the salient points of early Buddhist teachings, with verses intended to function as concise reminders for those already & largely acquainted with the bulk of those teachings.

As such, I used to recommend the Dhammapada for those desiring an introduction to early Buddhism, but no longer.

 

[dlamberth]

Interestingly enough, I gain the most inspiration from English. Wordsworth's and Blake's poetry have given me more than the Quran ever could, for example.
I do not think there is such a thing as "spiritual languages" or "aspiritual languages". Individual dispositions apply. I, for one, have little patience for overbearing abundance (which is why I have got little affinity for Indian culture, but love the subdued simplicity of Japan), feeling that it transgresses into kitsch-territory: style without substance. Empty ornamentation.

It takes a wordsmith to draw the same images in English that a single word in more spiritual languages bring to light. Languages reflect the way a culture views life around them. So for instance, the word "tree" is a noun. We tend to look at the tree as an object, a thing. If we instead "experienced" the tree as a verb, the landscape changes, the language starts to get spiritual. When we go deeper and for instance start to experience the vibrational aspect of the word and let it carry us where it will, the word gets even more spiritual. There's not much vibration in the word "tree". It's the same with the word "god". They are more of an object with not much vibration with in it, especially when chanted. The word "Allah" is a verb. As a verb it brings a different image. And when chanted it sings. It carries you. It's much more vibrant and alive than the word god. Many Arab words are like that. The same with American Indian words, which reflects how they view life when they talk about trees and animals being relatives.

 

[Rajni]

The Quran's flowery language, its elliptic style, its endless repetition of the same phrases generates annoyance rather than inspiration in me. I love some forms of poetry and poetic language, but this "holy" text constantly prompts me to want to shout: "Get to the point already!!!"

Speaking of repetition, I recall when I attempted to read the Book of
Mormon, that I couldn't get past the constant repeating of the phrase "And
it came to pass". I'm thinking, "Yes, yes, it came to pass, I get it already!"

-

 

[Zoness]

Speaking of repetition, I recall when I attempted to read the Book of
Mormon, that I couldn't get past the constant repeating of the phrase "And
it came to pass". I'm thinking, "Yes, yes, it came to pass, I get it already!"

-

A lot of that stemmed from the Book of Mormon's attempt at sounding more like the King James Bible to make it sound more ancient and authoritative. But even in the 19th century, using 17th century grammatical effects made no sense to the readers.

 

[cloudyday2]

Speaking of repetition, I recall when I attempted to read the Book of
Mormon, that I couldn't get past the constant repeating of the phrase "And
it came to pass". I'm thinking, "Yes, yes, it came to pass, I get it already!"

-

I've never read the Book of Mormon. I've heard some say that the text is very compelling, but Mark Twain seems to have shared your opinion of the writing style:

"And it came to pass" was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet.

MT on the Mormons

 

[Rajni]

I've never read the Book of Mormon. I've heard some say that the text is very compelling, but Mark Twain seems to have shared your opinion of the writing style:

MT on the Mormons

I just finished reading that commentary. Twain's phraseology is hilarious.

-

 

[GUANO]

After I left Christianity there was probably a void I had to fill. So I tried every religion I could find to replace it. Nothing really stuck, but it was a good learning experience. Eventually I started learning about energy pendulums and egregores. Basically power structures that exist by attracting adherents to them and feeding off their energy. In return for you giving them your energy, they give you those typical feelings and simulations you get when you belong to something like a church or political party, etc. (sense of purpose, belonging, self identification, etc). So now I just try and avoid pendulums and egregores (hard to do in a world made up of them) in hopes of further self discovery.

Using terms like 'egregore', you've obviously you've delved into the occult, hermeticism, western mysticism, and the like—or at the least read books that were heavily influenced by such—as well as Buddhism and Hinduism. That is what actually sent me back to the scriptures after superstition was scraped away by a new understanding of spiritual beings (a loaded term) and how they operate and influence the individual and collective psyche.

For me, the thing that sets Biblical scripture apart from the rest is a real and living spirit of prophecy that is unmatched and completely awe-inspiring. And most of it seems to be related to the history and eventual destruction of egregores and other psychic creations and influences.

 

[TheOldWays]

Using terms like 'egregore', you've obviously you've delved into the occult, hermeticism, western mysticism, and the like—or at the least read books that were heavily influenced by such—as well as Buddhism and Hinduism. That is what actually sent me back to the scriptures after superstition was scraped away by a new understanding of spiritual beings (a loaded term) and how they operate and influence the individual and collective psyche.

I did dabble in the occult for a while, explored Hindu thought and was actually a practising Buddhist for a few years. To be sure after a few runs in some occult practices I did flee back to the scriptures. Probably three or four times at least, but I always left again, seeing it a bit more clearly each time. Some will cling to the scriptures after their 'scare' and never leave them again, which is just fine. Others will take the experience for what it is, a moment of learning, and venture out again, armed with new knowledge and understanding.

In terms of the 'spiritual beings' and how they operate, my exploration has lead me to be more agnostic now towards that idea, as I see them as how I would view the weather or the passage of time. Not beings of independent thought and personality, but extremely powerful forces that are created like a storm by the collective thoughts of a group of individuals, who slowly give over their individuality to it. What else I discovered is their effect on a person is directly related to the energy you give the said force.

For me, the thing that sets Biblical scripture apart from the rest is a real and living spirit of prophecy that is unmatched and completely awe-inspiring. And most of it seems to be related to the history and eventual destruction of egregores and other psychic creations and influences.

Prophecy never really did grab me as it grabs others. Just the type of personality I am I suppose. The destruction of egregores would certainly free humanity, but it would have to be a massive shift in human consciousness that would bring that about.