Shame

[Colleen1]

Thank you Colleen for your encouragement.

But to see God as a loving God, a loving Father, it is a struggle at times.

I hope this helps you better understand John.

Moriah Ruth

You're very welcome. Yes, it can be a struggle. For me it amounts to, 'do I trust God?'. Trust is a big thing for me. When I sit down and look over my life and compare what following has positively done in my life as compared to what has happened when I've given up on that, I come to the conclusion that I'm better with God in my life. ...And though I don't always understand why he has / does allow bad things in my life, I have gone through enough to know that there is a plan and that I can trust him. At times it's much easier said than done though.

 

[Colleen1]

I've had a real struggle with shame, so much so it very nearly killed me, driving me to thoughts of ending my life. It was definately something the enemy was using to try to destroy me - He is the thief that comes to steal, kill and destroy and I listened to his lies. Lies I was worthless, hopeless, and a complete defect and all sorts of bad stuff. He also told me God had rejected me, hated me and wanted me to do it as well. It was hell and I felt like I was going to go under sometimes and was being ripped apart, but God is faithful, as his word says that he won't let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. 1 Cor 10:13. Shame drove me to do some silly and desperate things though - a number of half hearted attempts at ending my life, which were more a call for help than anything I think. In the end it only made me feel even more shame and hatred toward myself. I was trapped in a sort of vicious cycle that I just couldn't seem to break out of. Shame drove me to thinking I needed to punish myself, hate myself and yes even kill myself, but at the same time, I had a deep sense that killing yourself was wrong, as a christian. I had shame to that I was even having those thoughts as well, and of the place I was in so around and around it went. Anyway I am still here after several years of this struggle. I do believe I am getting stronger and more grounded in what is truth, but do still have a long way to go as well and a lot to still grasp. Part of the struggle has been coming to terms with a situation that was abusive in nature, though quite subtle, but of which I found devastating on top of other difficult experiences from my childhood I think. I also had shame from mental health issues, and many of my own wrong choices in life, which caused these problems. I guess it all just seemed to heap up on top of each other. Well hope I haven't gone on to much. Will leave it there. I want to return and have a better look at all the previous posts, which I have really only skimmed over. Lots of good comments, verses and media to look at. Thanks

You're very welcome and welcome to fellowship here. It's good to be validating to one another as christians. I think it's important. Yeah, I've had my junk and experiences too and it can drag us down or we can look for clarity in things and choose to decide we are valuable...which we truly are. God thinks so; despite our mess He loves us. Though, it can be hard to see how experiencing bad things can be justified in any way. I see it in terms of eternity and that there is more beyond my current struggle. Joseph is a good example of this. He basically said ...you meant it for evil but God meant it for good. His story speaks to this issue and has helped me. I'm in no way trying to justify wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite other peoples evil God can work things so that we 'come out on top', whether it be sooner or later....we come out as conquorers and get through the muck and mire to the other side.

 

[Colleen1]

Sorry I butted in after your post Moriah Ruth. I think we must have been typing at the same time. I can relate to your struggle with seeing God as loving, as a Father.

We're all here to fellowship and that's a good thing.

 

[lilewe]

Thanks Colleen, for your reply. Yeah I thought you would have been through difficult stuff yourself posting in this area. Joseph is one of my favorite bible characters. Im sure he wondered what on earth God was doing and why all these bad things were happening when he was sold into slavery and ended up in jail again later. Though maybe he had a stronger faith and trust in God. Something which I feel has not been strong in me at all. Although maybe trials of various kinds do have the effect of strenghthening our faith and trust when we do eventually come through the otherside still holding on even by a few threads to that little faith we do have. Im sure theres a verse in the bible somewhere about that. Just can't think of it just now. It is very much my hope and prayer that God would bring all what I have experienced for some good, both in my relationship with him and better able to serve others to. He does promise to, so yeah, we just have to believe and trust him even if we can't see any good in it in the present. Thanks again.

 

[Colleen1]

Thanks Colleen, for your reply. Yeah I thought you would have been through difficult stuff yourself posting in this area. Joseph is one of my favorite bible characters. Im sure he wondered what on earth God was doing and why all these bad things were happening when he was sold into slavery and ended up in jail again later. Though maybe he had a stronger faith and trust in God. Something which I feel has not been strong in me at all. Although maybe trials of various kinds do have the effect of strenghthening our faith and trust when we do eventually come through the otherside still holding on even by a few threads to that little faith we do have. Im sure theres a verse in the bible somewhere about that. Just can't think of it just now. It is very much my hope and prayer that God would bring all what I have experienced for some good, both in my relationship with him and better able to serve others to. He does promise to, so yeah, we just have to believe and trust him even if we can't see any good in it in the present. Thanks again.

You're very welcome. I think faith, healing, forgiveness, all of these tough things are a process. I don't think anyone can just get to the other end of the mire with one simple jump. I need to keep reminding myself of this as well. I think God is already using you and your life. I'm glad you've posted here in this thread. We aren't alone.

 

[Johnnz]

Hi,

Childhood lays foundations into our lives. They can become so dominant that they become a virtual prism through which we interpret all of life. Our memories and associated concepts are all we have to work with.

I have found that two important factors in change are:

a) Other models. Some significant person who shows us real differences - maybe a father with children you can observe and learn from for example.

b) Undoing wrong concepts about God. This will involve more than just noting some biblical verses; they may not 'register' because of our filtering mechanisms. Constant exposure to really healthy teaching can help reduce filtering. This helps when we also have a model and close friend working in tandem.

One message your father will have implanted is "not good enough". Place that onto God and life becomes unbearable, a Divine taskmaster, with endless, unattainable demands. It's exhausting trying so hard to get into his favour when the slightest perceived 'defect' dooms you, and even in doing well the inner voice still says "Not enough. Try harder".

You need help to discover these wonderful words:
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." NIV

Or as the message paraphrases that verse:
Matt 11:28-30 "Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me — watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. 30 Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."
(from THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson. All rights reserved.)

John
NZ

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Hi John NZ,

Thank you for the encouragement.

"Childhood lays foundations into our lives. They can become so dominant that they become a virtual prism through which we interpret all of life. Our memories and associated concepts are all we have to work with."

I can certainly relate to this. When one has been traumatized so badly it does something to you mentally and emotionally. Also when one knows only one way and is told there is no other way, they lose hope. It is hard for those who has been traumatized in some way to change the mindset of what they see and believe. Unless God comes in and restores the mindset. Also if there is a loving and understanding person they can help, however this is far and few between. The person has a hard time accepting because of what was done to them.

"Undoing wrong concepts about God."

This can be hard to do for most people who have been abused. It doesn't happen over night.

"One message your father will have implanted is "not good enough". Place that onto God and life becomes unbearable, a Divine taskmaster, with endless, unattainable demands. It's exhausting trying so hard to get into his favour when the slightest perceived 'defect' dooms you, and even in doing well the inner voice still says "Not enough. Try harder".

This is so true. And this is what I struggle with the most.

 

[Johnnz]

"One message your father will have implanted is "not good enough". Place that onto God and life becomes unbearable, a Divine taskmaster, with endless, unattainable demands. It's exhausting trying so hard to get into his favour when the slightest perceived 'defect' dooms you, and even in doing well the inner voice still says "Not enough. Try harder".

This is so true. And this is what I struggle with the most.

Some bullet points to consider.

Your security with God has nothing to do with:
How much you pray
How often you fast
How much bible reading you do
How 'dedicated' you are to serving Him
How much faith you have

Thankfully

John
NZ

 

[Colleen1]

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Yesterday I had the chance to read over the postings on the issue on shame. There is a lot of good information from everyone. I can relate to the name calling, being yelled at and not knowing what to say or do when someone gets angry with you.

It seems that when someone yells at us, we relate it to the past and the fear rises within us, to the point we want to cower in a corner somewhere. When someone starts yelling or fighting I start to go in panic mode. It is like I want to run to where it is safe. Also when someone gets angry with me I take it personally and I feel that I had caused the problem. Which when this happens we start to feel the unwanted shame.

I am starting to realize how crippling unwanted and negative shame is. It does keep us in bondage and it keeps us from seeing who we are in Christ. Also it keeps us from growing and doing the calling that God has placed on our lives.

I am looking for freedom from this unwanted shame as I know all of you are also.

Looking forward to more responses. Blessings to all.

Moriah Ruth

 

[Colleen1]

Yesterday I had the chance to read over the postings on the issue on shame. There is a lot of good information from everyone. I can relate to the name calling, being yelled at and not knowing what to say or do when someone gets angry with you.

It seems that when someone yells at us, we relate it to the past and the fear rises within us, to the point we want to cower in a corner somewhere. When someone starts yelling or fighting I start to go in panic mode. It is like I want to run to where it is safe. Also when someone gets angry with me I take it personally and I feel that I had caused the problem. Which when this happens we start to feel the unwanted shame.

I am starting to realize how crippling unwanted and negative shame is. It does keep us in bondage and it keeps us from seeing who we are in Christ. Also it keeps us from growing and doing the calling that God has placed on our lives.

I am looking for freedom from this unwanted shame as I know all of you are also.

Looking forward to more responses. Blessings to all.

Moriah Ruth

Yes, so very true on all counts. There is hope but every now and then it creeps back into my life. It gets easier the more I know myself and the patterns I need to look for. Many times I have to make the choice to deal with it well and once I get use to making those choices more and more ...I think the healing comes better. Glad you joined us. God bless.

 

[Forge3]

Our conscience only smites us to re-direct us to right relationship with the Lord.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Hi Colleen,

"Yes, so very true on all counts. There is hope but every now and then it creeps back into my life. It gets easier the more I know myself and the patterns I need to look for. Many times I have to make the choice to deal with it well and once I get use to making those choices more and more ...I think the healing comes better. Glad you joined us. God bless. "

This is the trick, is knowing when the false shame is going to rear it's ugly head and how and when to deal with it. Sometimes the shame comes at a time when we have no strength left in us to deal with it. Other times it can overwhelm us. Sometimes we need someone to help us to get past the false guilt. When no one is around to help it can be difficult. Sometimes it is hard to look to God during these times. But if we keep reading His word we will be encouraged to keep going, even down a lonely road.

Many blessings to you.

Moriah Ruth

 

[Colleen1]

Our conscience only smites us to re-direct us to right relationship with the Lord.

As explained in the fist post, God drawing us to himself because he desires us to correct what we need to because He desires relationship with us....is different than unnecessary shame that only keeps us away from God and healthy living. Two separate things.

 

[Colleen1]

Hi Colleen,
This is the trick, is knowing when the false shame is going to rear it's ugly head and how and when to deal with it. Sometimes the shame comes at a time when we have no strength left in us to deal with it. Other times it can overwhelm us. Sometimes we need someone to help us to get past the false guilt. When no one is around to help it can be difficult. Sometimes it is hard to look to God during these times. But if we keep reading His word we will be encouraged to keep going, even down a lonely road.

Many blessings to you.

Moriah Ruth

Yes, it is good to know what triggers this feeling within us. For example, different things that happen or certain things that people say can prompt feelings of unnecessary shame within us and we can begin to question whether God is trustworthy or wants us near Him. It is good to have good support when we are vulnerable and trying to heal. It is unfortunate that not everyone understands or is able to be validating. Still we try to do our best to heal and move on. There is hope and healing does come. Some times we need to find the specific things that help each of us move on and come to terms with things.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Yes, I agree with this totally Colleen.

 

[Colleen1]

Yes, I agree with this totally Colleen.

God bless.

 

[Colleen1]

Miley Cyrus - The Climb - Official Music Video (HQ) - YouTube

 

[Colleen1]

God be with us as we grieve.
Jann Arden - Hanging By A Thread - YouTube​

 

[Colleen1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwm1HpkaIDQ