Sexual Harassment is Out of Control

[bèlla]

You are truly wise.

I have walked away from fights, knowing that I would beat the other guy senseless if I engaged him.

Thank you for the compliment. And you’re correct too.

 

[zephcom]

I don't think that's the issue at the churches in question. Most clergy in mainline Protetant denominations are extremely professional, emotionally mature individuals who go through a very rigorous process of discernment and calling. The problem is that the laity are sometimes far below where the clergy are at in terms of emotional and spiritual maturity. These churches tend to be so open you get some who go there for the social prestige more than a serious commitment to the church's vision, and who have their share of immaturity and maladjustment.

One could assume then that the church would be prepared to handle people of 'immaturity and maladjustment'.

 

[bèlla]

The problem is that the laity are sometimes far below where the clergy are at in terms of emotional and spiritual maturity. These churches tend to be so open you get some who go there for the social prestige more than a serious commitment to the church's vision, and who have their share of immaturity and maladjustment.

I am speaking from the perspective of the individual in the seat. We all must demonstrate wisdom and self-control. Even when we find ourselves in environments which don’t have the safeguards being discussed.

Places of worship will always attract a mixed audience. And as you’ve noted, that creates additional challenges they must confront.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think one of the problems is that the author is conflating a bunch of different issues. Male pastors in church can be gaslighted and bullied by church members or the church council just as much as women. And many are much more liberal (and better educated) than their parishoners, and face resistance to change just as much as a woman pastor. So no pastor in these types of churches has an easy job, and sometimes in the name of feminist agnst, it's easy to lose sight of that.

 

[zephcom]

Zephcom, I am sorry that you apparently have experienced sexual harassment. NO ONE should have to endure that. I dare say that sexual harassment has been taken out of context here, though. From reading the OP and comments I see a prevailing assumption coming through; women are the victims of sexual harassment/abuse. Men are and have been sexually harassed, too. I suppose that since the sexual identity role changes going on in our culture, specifically Hollywood emulating women ruling over and dominating men and men being made to appear as irresponsible, fearsome, and incapable duds, men are now experiencing an exponential increase of sexual harassment; "affirmative action" or tit-for-tat, so-to-speak, from the many women in an authoritative position to impose sexual harassment/abuse today. I do not mean to diminish the wrongfulness of sexual harassment of women but IMO there is an unspoken practice of men being the recipients, also. Unfortunately MEN, having been NATURALLY designed with a bigger and stronger body in order to protect and provide, it is perceived as shameful for a man to admit that a woman took advantage of him in a sexual manner, even if it is limited to verbal, so the majority of women perpetrating this offense (# of cases) go unreported. It is a FACT that a woman can even rape a man. Some ignorantly think that it is not possible but it is, I assure you. It is not a matter of strength, but rather the threat imposed and just like a female giving up and letting it happen to survive, so also can a male.

You are the shepherd of your flock. That means that you are in charge of it: to protect it and discipline (train) it; "rod and staff." You are not above or excluded from your flock. You are also a member of your church. You should be protected just as any other member from abuse. I suspect that you may not have much, if any, established rules of conduct or a church disciplinary process established. Few do today. It is "unpopular." It is VERY Biblical, though. If you &/or your board will not establish AND ENFORCE rules of conduct or such you can only expect many abuses going on in the church, UNCHECKED. If I were a pastor in today's American or most other cultures, I would not counsel any one or be alone with any one without a witness (and best if a secure, incorruptible recording format); no exceptions. If not possible, then I would find another way to serve the Lord. I believe that satan is removing so many from the pulpit and elsewhere in the church with false accusations which attract a guilty pronouncement before which any due just process is even contemplated.

I appreciate the comments, but in this particular OP the sexual harassment was focused on women who, as pastors, are already in a position of authority. It does appear that for some people, women with authority can be targets for harassment as well as women who have no authority.

Further it appears they are receiving no support from the church leaders who, presumably, hold the power of hiring and firing over the pastor.

Of course that does not diminish the issue of sexual harassment of men. Men as victims just was not the subject of the OP.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

One could assume then that the church would be prepared to handle people of 'immaturity and maladjustment'.

God has ordained his ministry with that authority. Sadly many 'for-hire' ministers are at the mercy of those who write the check.

 

[FireDragon76]

I appreciate the comments, but in this particular OP the sexual harassment was focused on women who, as pastors, are already in a position of authority. It does appear that for some people, women with authority can be targets for harassment as well as women who have no authority.

In a mainline Protestant church in the US, a pastor's authority is much more limited than in most non-denom and independent churches. Typically generous donors and the church council have alot of power, and this can result in abuse of clergy. @Paidiske has talked about this in the past, in an Australian Anglican context which is similar.

 

[Monksailor]

As said earlier by another, a leader must be able to handle an elevated amount of rejection and abuse and be able to handle and accept it as just par for the course, esp. a leader representing the Lord. Our Lord Jesus gave us a process to follow to deal with "difficult" individuals in Matthew 18:15-17. Have you communicated in a very clear, direct and specific manner that this person's behavior is unacceptable to you AND that it MUST stop? Remember, you are the leader here. In sexual harassment training seminars which we annually had at one of my places of employment, the victims of sexual harassment were encouraged to do just this. Many times that is all it takes to stop the behavior; just like standing up to a bully. They also taught that ignoring or turning away or diverting attention (AVOIDANCE) many times, however unintended, informs the perpetrator's sick mind that you like their attention and are just being coy and welcomes more, later. As said earlier by another, this is not a sexual affront, it is a bully or dominance one. If you want to stop it and nip it in the bud before it gets all kinds of people involved and time and resources spent it is best to confront the person in a direct manner and kindly but FIRMLY inform them that their behavior is UNWELCOME and that it MUST STOP NOW. Make sure that you are in the vicinity of help or have it on you if need be, just in case, but our fears make things seem so much more dangerous than they really are at times. Remember, the Lord IS right there and as long as you are accurately reflecting Him and His Ways He will be with you and enable you to do whatever you need to do.

 

[Monksailor]

I just noticed that you are a "Deist." Does that mean that you just believe in a god but not the specific Tri-une God of Scripture? What relevance and authority does your church attribute to the Holy Scriptures, God's Word? Do you believe that it is God-Breathed/God-Inspired and inerrant and applicable today? I only ask as I thought you to be a practicing Christian and have offered suggestions from God's Holy Word but if you do not render it as I, I fear that my time here may have been wasted.

 

[FireDragon76]

I just noticed that you are a "Deist." Does that mean that you just believe in a god but not the specific Tri-une God of Scripture? What relevance and authority does your church attribute to the Holy Scriptures, God's Word? Do you believe that it is God-Breathed/God-Inspired and inerrant and applicable today? I only ask as I thought you to be a practicing Christian and have offered suggestions from God's Holy Word but if you do not render it as I, I fear that my time here may have been wasted.

Deists are a kind of theistic freethinker, they typically do not belong to organized religions.

 

[Acts2:38]

Does the Bible not have a process already detailed for dealing with 'Christians' who are not behaving in a Christian manner? I seem to remember that it involves talking to the offender, then talking to the church leaders who would confront the offender and finally, asking the offender to move on.

Yes, it does have that process. Though, a church that has women pastors probably wouldn't seek out those processes seeing that they already ignore the fact that scripture has no women pastors, and that every instance of leadership in the church setting has a man, not a women. Though many times it shows them as "helpers", I don't recall one ounce of scripture of them leading congregations or in leadership rolls over Christians.

So that being said, it would be no surprise to me that they wouldn't follow any process to stop misconduct of Christians, since they don't follow other processes.

My apologies for derailing a little, but I thought I should mention that fact, and that it shouldn't be any surprise.

 

[Monksailor]

OH, I gave you that verse area of which you were thinking: Matthew 18:15-17, I believe. I think you said that it is not your or lay's responsibility to know. If (and it is) the 1st step is one-on-one with no one else involved, isn't logical and totally reasonable that EVERY PERSON in the church should be taught and familiar with this process of settling disputes our Lord Himself gave to us to exercise?

 

[Monksailor]

Deists are a kind of theistic freethinker, they typically do not belong to organized religions.

Oh, OK. Zephcom, I would suggest that you do whatever floats your boat.

 

[zephcom]

Oh, OK. Zephcom, I would suggest that you do whatever floats your boat.

I don't need your suggestion to do whatever floats my boat.

 

[bhsmte]

I dont think it is worse than it was decades ago (it may even occur less). The major difference is, victims are actually coming forward now.

 

[bekkilyn]

United Methodists have a committee called the (Staff)Pastor Parish Relations Committee, which is supposed to act as a mediator between the Pastor and the church body, so I could bring up the issue with them. If they did not effectively address the issue, I would then notify my District Supervisor. I would probably first try to address the issue directly with the person I believed to be harassing me though.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

It seems that women are not even safe from sexual harassment when they are pastors in churches.

When Your Sexual Harassers Sit in Your Pews

The article points out that many churches now have policies and procedures to protect the congregation from the pastor but nothing seems to be in place to protect the pastor from the congregation. Does the church leadership, as a group, have any moral or ethical responsibility toward the pastor they hired?

There is a reason Paul wanted to keep women away from the pulpit. The flesh is weak and men have a particular weakness that crosses all lines. Even the angels could not be trusted.
Blessings

 

[bekkilyn]

There is a reason Paul wanted to keep women away from the pulpit. The flesh is weak and men have a particular weakness that crosses all lines. Even the angels could not be trusted.
Blessings

This makes no sense. If men and angels are particularly unable to control themselves sexually so that they are naturally inclined to sexually molest people, then wouldn't that just mean that women would be even *more* qualified for the pulpit?

 

[ViaCrucis]

One could assume then that the church would be prepared to handle people of 'immaturity and maladjustment'.

The Church isn't a country club of saints, but a hospital full of sinners. On some level we're all immature and maladjusted. That's why we need to hear the word and receive the Sacraments, to be fed and nourished with Christ, i.e., the reason for Christian worship.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Pommer]

This makes no sense. If men and angels are particularly unable to control themselves sexually so that they are naturally inclined to sexually molest people, then wouldn't that just mean that women would be even *more* qualified for the pulpit?

Of course, back when women ruled the religious roost, they had set up systems that favored “fertility-worship”; one “worshiped” Aphrodite by having sex with one of the goddess’ “disciples”.