Sex outside of wedlock

[Apex]

Whoever does not hate his family, cannot follow Christ.

I guess loving your wife like Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25) sometimes means divorcing her. Makes perfect sense!

 

[Kenny'sID]

BTW: A common law marriage is one in which the couple, usually a man and woman, lives together for a period of time and holds themselves out to friends, family and the community as "being married," but never go through a formal ceremony or get a marriage license.

How do you mean hold themselves out? I saw the same definition top of Google...not sure I get what that means...lie?

Either way I see different states have different criteria, but ether way, if it's not really married as I thought it was, it's not married so...and I'm still not sure it isn't, but I evidently had the wrong idea of it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Lol so now if the Bible doesn't show our favourite doctrine we're just gonna make it up ( where have I seen that before?) On who's authority?
So if I am "wedded" (that is lead in a mumbo jumbo quasi religious ceremony) by the local lesbian, pagan celebrant or a Buddhist monk, this is respected as marriage. And yet if I simply make a covenant between my wife and I to be committed and faithful to one another this is not. How so? The major covenants in the Bible were entered between 1 man and his God, Abraham didn't have a piece of paper to wave around. Why not 1 man and his woman before God?

I didn't make anything up.

On this subject we are beyond marriage or a piece of paper to prove marriage. You know as well as I do what God thinks of Homosexuality. You're grabbing at straws anywhere you can find them in making that simply about marriage, but grab as you will, none of them will hold you up biblicaly.

I suggest we leave it at that, as I can almost assure you, you will eventually get upset with my replies, if you haven't already.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

You mean your religious institution makes it clear.

The Church IS Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27).

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

I guess loving your wife like Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25) sometimels means divorcing her. Makes perfect sense!

Loving your wife means not committing adultery.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Scriptures can be interpreted in myiad fashion, hence the countless sects. Christ makes it clear that having multiple sexual partners is adultery. If you can't accept that, there is nothing more to be said.

Scripture makes it clear that God hates divorce. If you can't accept that, there is nothing more to be said.

Hmmmm. Shall we judge between our stances by deciding who is the most holy?

 

[Anguspure]

I didn't make anything up.

On this subject we are beyond marriage or a piece of paper to prove marriage. You know as well as I do what God thinks of Homosexuality. You're grabbing at straws anywhere you can find them in making that simply about marriage, but grab as you will, none of them will hold you up biblicaly.

I suggest we leave it at that, as I can almost assure you, you will eventually get upset with my replies, if you haven't already.

Not upset. This is the first time I've ever investigated this position in this forum.
What I find a little strange is the extra Biblical insistence of what marriage constitutes. The Bible is very clear on the subject and for us to add all sorts of other mumbo jumbo like bits of paper, governmental interference and unnecessary religious ceremonies as compulsory is pseudo Biblical religion and IMO does not reflect the will of God.
Do you consider that people in say the Congo who marry without any of this garbage (except perhaps a ceremony and a party) are married?

 

[Anguspure]

I didn't make anything up.

On this subject we are beyond marriage or a piece of paper to prove marriage. You know as well as I do what God thinks of Homosexuality. You're grabbing at straws anywhere you can find them in making that simply about marriage, but grab as you will, none of them will hold you up biblicaly.

I suggest we leave it at that, as I can almost assure you, you will eventually get upset with my replies, if you haven't already.

I am sorry but I am sticking to the OP. My conversation has nothing to do with Homosexuality.

 

[Anguspure]

How do you mean hold themselves out? I saw the same definition top of Google...not sure I get what that means...lie?

Either way I see different states have different criteria, but ether way, if it's not really married as I thought it was, it's not married so...and I'm still not sure it isn't, but I evidently had the wrong idea of it.

That is where I got the definition. I chose an American one to avoid confusion. Never mind.
To hold oneself out is to describe oneself publically. If I say to someone "This is my wife Jenny.", and haven't performed all of the mumbo jumbo normally associated with weddings and the like then we are holding ourselves out as being married. In my country 2 people who have been living together for more than 2 years are regarded as if they were married in most legal respects.

 

[Apex]

Loving your wife means not committing adultery.

Was Jacob committing adultery on Leah when he had sex with Rachel?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Was Jacob committing adultery on Leah when he had sex with Rachel?

Well, Leah was his first wife, so maybe it was the other way around?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Not upset. This is the first time I've ever investigated this position in this forum.
What I find a little strange is the extra Biblical insistence of what marriage constitutes. The Bible is very clear on the subject and for us to add all sorts of other mumbo jumbo like bits of paper, governmental interference and unnecessary religious ceremonies as compulsory is pseudo Biblical religion and IMO does not reflect the will of God.
Do you consider that people in say the Congo who marry without any of this garbage (except perhaps a ceremony and a party) are married?

And what I find not strange at all, is the will of God is reflected in the laws of the land. Look it up, the Bible really does say God has his hands on the laws of the land, and the law is what it is. You find it strange because you don't like it, not because it's strange.

No idea what the law in the Congo is, but just the fact you would try to use that to make an over all point tells me you are a little desperate.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

And what I find not strange at all, is the will of God is reflected in the laws of the land. Look it up, the Bible really does say God has his hands on the laws of the land, and the law is what it is. You find it strange because you don't like it, not because it's strange.

No idea what the law in the Congo is, but just the fact you would try to use that to make an over all point tells me you are a little desperate.

Congo residents are people who form families. Their family formations are not a sin. They are genuine.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I am sorry but I am sticking to the OP. My conversation has nothing to do with Homosexuality.

No need to apologize, unless you wan to apologize to yourself, I mean how would I know that if you had not brought it up and now you say your conversation has nothing to do with it?

Odd reaction.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Congo residents are people who form families. Their family formations are not a sin. They are genuine.

What are their wedding habits? I wonder if there all as back woods as was indicated by another poster.

Actually, from Wikipedia:

Introduction
A marriage certificate is proof that a marriage has been registered by the office of civil registry.

• It indicates that a marriage in DRC is legal and recognized by the state.
• It is given to Congolese nationals who consent to marriage or whose parents consent to the marriage.

Eligibility
Congolese men above 18 years and women or girls above 15 years.


Instructions

• The marriage may be solemnized in accordance with the family formalities required by customs.
• In this case, the registrar shall register the marriage and draw up an act in the record.
• Marriage may also be solemnized by the registrar of civil status according to the formalities prescribed.
• In this case, the officer of civil status immediately draws a marriage.
• In the month following the wedding celebration with family, spouses and possibly their agents must appear before the registrar of civil status of the place of celebration in order to see the wedding and ensure publicity and recording.
• Witnesses must be adults or emancipated and able. They are taken from the paternal or maternal line of each spouse.

Required Information

• Name / profession/residence of both parents to the spouses,
• Name / profession/residence residence of both spouses;
• Name of marital witness
• Address
• Contacts
• Date/ place of birth of both spouses.
• Prior spouse marital status;
• Choice of matrimonial regime adopted by the spouses

Procedure

• The intending spouses and their witnesses appear before the registrar of civil status of the place of celebration and take oath
• The state registrar checks whether the legal conditions of marriage have been met.
• Within fifteen days, the officer of civil status informs the public by proclamation made at least twice, or display affixed to the door of the office of the civil status, deed recording the marriage.
• After the fifteen days the officer of civil status ensures registration of marriage by finding the formality of publication.

Required Documents

• Birth certificate for each of the spouses.;
• Identification documents of both spouses.
• Proof of payment of fees for registering marriage

Fees
300 Congolese Francs.

Validity
Marriage certificate is valid till the marriage is legally disolved

Documents to Use

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Was Jacob committing adultery on Leah when he had sex with Rachel?

He wasn't under the covenant we are.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Scripture makes it clear that God hates divorce. If you can't accept that, there is nothing more to be said.

Hmmmm. Shall we judge between our stances by deciding who is the most holy?

God does hate divorce. We show leniency in cases like adultery (which Christ overtly made an exception for) and abuse and things like that. We don't recognize divorce unless it is filed with the Church and falls under a very good reason such as these. Although Catholic annulment does not permit seperation for these reasons, it does permit it for things like not knowing marriage is permanent or your spouse not making as much money as you thought (even if there is no intentional deception), things we would never grant annulment for.

 

[Apex]

He wasn't under the covenant we are.

Just to clarify what you are saying. You believe it was moral for Jacob to have sex with multiple wives at the same time, but not for a Christian? Because we are under different moral obligations? Correct?

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

Just to clarify what you are saying. You believe it was moral for Jacob to have sex with multiple wives at the same time, but not for a Christian? Because we are under different moral obligations? Correct?

No, I don't really think it was moral, but I do think God demanded less of him than us regarding that.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

No, I don't really think it was moral, but I do think God demanded less of him than us regarding that.

So men who are ignorant of God's wishes regarding number of wives and within a culture that sanctions multiple wives are not judged guilty of sin for having multiple wives?