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Sex and the Vatican

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by lunachick, Aug 6, 2003.

  1. Filia Mariae

    Filia Mariae Senior Contributor

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    SIGH....

    Okay, so the document says that in the event that a priest does something so heinous as to make a sexual advance in the Sacrament of Confession, the penitent is to report him immediately. So far, I fail to see the problem.

    The penitent is not bound by the seal of the confessional, the priest is, for the protection of the penitent.

    Sorry, but this is just same-old same-old anti-Catholic nativism. :(

    Do not wonder, brethren, that the world hates you.
    1 John 3:13

    In Christ,
    Carly
     
  2. Michael0701

    Michael0701 Harley Ridin' Believer!!

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    "... trying to desensitize...". Is that sort of like children being de-sensitized to violence and misogyny in the media (hollywood, video games, gangsta rap, etc.)? That just happens to be one of the most ridiculous things I have heard....... lately. What we need is more outrage!! We need more emotion!! We need not all become sheep.
     
  3. kdet

    kdet God lives in us

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    Exactly!
     
  4. Truncate

    Truncate Got Logic?

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    Those things and more happen in real life, all the time. So, people should know about real life, and the "bad" things out there.
     
  5. nyj

    nyj Goodbye, my puppy

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    If you know about it, it's not secret. :)
     
  6. Aaron-Aggie

    Aaron-Aggie Legend

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  7. revolutio

    revolutio Apatheist Extraordinaire

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    I would appreciate if you would try to respect and understand my opinions or atleast not insult them.

    Children are another matter, I am refering to self aware adults. Children are too impressionable as it is. II don't teach children things that are matters of my own opinion.
     
  8. Aaron-Aggie

    Aaron-Aggie Legend

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    The other side of the story:

    http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=24023

     
  9. Aaron-Aggie

    Aaron-Aggie Legend

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  10. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    I found the picture with the ashamed child's silhouette pressed up against the dome of the Vatican to be a bit propagandistic.
     
  11. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

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    Yes, and that "protection" is exactly what protects the penitent priest who has confessed his crime.

    In the rest of society, a counselor is REQUIRED BY LAW to report a crime involving the sexual abuse of minors.
     
  12. kdet

    kdet God lives in us

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    I meant that if your goal is to desensitize people to the very real horrors of CSA then you are in effect harming the children that are victims of CSA
     
  13. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

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    Sorry I took your words the wrong way, Carly.
     
  14. Michael0701

    Michael0701 Harley Ridin' Believer!!

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    In all sincerity, I don't know what you mean by your post.

    Are you trying to say it's ok to entertain children with a video game about stealing cars and picking up hookers because in real life people steal cars and rent hookers? There is a wide grand canyon-like chasm of difference between being exposed to reality and all the evils in it and being bombarded with it over and over again until IT becomes the norm.
     
  15. revolutio

    revolutio Apatheist Extraordinaire

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    If desensitization always = bad then you are right.

    However if people can logically come up with a reason why CSA is wrong and have enough of a brain to act on it, then I think the children are even better off. Though emotionally driven actions are usually stronger they are also dumber. Just because something is the most emotionally stirring at that time, doesn't mean it is the most important. Acting with a head clear and unclouded by rage/piousness/hatred/fear is almost always more beneficial than the alternative.
     
  16. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    And now, as a follow-up, you may want to read this news release from the Catholic League:

    http://www.catholicleague.org/03pre.../030807_cbs.htm


    August 7, 2003

    CBS GUILTY OF UNFAIRLY MALIGNING VATICAN

    On the CBS Evening News of August 6, it was reported that the Vatican issued a document in 1962 that “lays out a church policy that calls for absolute secrecy when it comes to sexual abuse by priests—anyone who speaks out could be thrown out of the church.” Immediately, Larry Drivon, a lawyer who represents those allegedly victimized by priests, charged that the Catholic Church was engaged in “Mafia-style behavior—racketeering.” He added that the Vatican document is “an instruction manual on how to deceive and how to protect pedophiles.

    Catholic League president William Donohue replied as follows:
    “This is an issue fraught with deception all right—but it’s not the Vatican that’s guilty—it’s CBS. By ripping the document out of context, CBS led viewers to believe that the Vatican was engaged in a sexual abuse cover-up as early as 1962. Here’s what it didn’t say in its report.
    “First, the document did not apply to sexual misconduct—it applied only to sexual solicitation. Second, the only venue the document addressed was the confessional. In other words, it was meant to deal only with cases of sexual solicitation by a priest of a penitent in the confessional. Third, because the policy was specifically aimed at protecting the secrecy of the confessional, it called for an ecclesiastical response: civil authorities were not to be notified because it involved a sacrament of the Catholic Church, not a crime of the state. Fourth, if a priest were found guilty, he could be thrown out of the priesthood. Fifth, if the penitent were to tell someone what happened (perhaps another priest), he or she had 30 days to report the incident to the bishop or face excommunication. If anything, this proves how utterly serious the Vatican was about such an offense—it threatened to punish the penitent for not turning in the guilty priest. Sixth, the 1962 document was superseded by the 1983 Code of Canon Law and the norms established in 2001 for dealing with serious crimes involving the sacraments.
    “For CBS to leave all this out shows how hungry it is to malign the Catholic Church. If anyone is acting like the Mafia, it’s CBS.”

    Exactly as I said before---all first reports are inaccurate. But, being CBS, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
     
  17. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

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    Auntie, must I drag up that old thread about the sexual crimes committed by non-Catholic clergy yet again? If you may recall, it goes on for pages. Pages and pages of pedophilia, sexual abuse, coercion, extortion, homosexual behavior, forced prostitution, and rape, none of it committed by Catholic clergy.

    Where is your outrage for that?

    Or is it simply because the Catholic Church is a big fat target, and easier to hit? Or that the media's distortions are easier to believe, making the Catholic Church the only sexual predator in the religious arena?

    How about the sexual abuse committed against innocents by teachers, psychologists, foster parents, and the like? No outrage against them?

    Why all the vitriol for the Catholic Church only? The sexual offenses committed by non-Catholics outnumber Catholic offenses ten-to-one.

    You want to be fair, don't you?
     
  18. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Auntie, I can tell you that as a Catholic and more importantly a Catholic parent these crimes are every bit as horrific to us as they are to you. Actually, probably more so. Your hatred will do us no good at a time like this, but your prayers would help immensely.

    Michelle
     
  19. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

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    Absolutely, they are horrific to ALL Christians! Do you think I don't realize that YOU are a victim too?? The world has a way of classifying ALL Christians under the Catholic umbrella, so the outrage is against ALL Christians. And the world is RIGHT to be upset, God help us all if they weren't upset!! The LEAST we must do is VALIDATE their outrage. To do otherwise implies APPROVAL of the offenses!

    No, Michelle, I have no hate for you, or anyone. And it surprises me that you even think such a thing. But I REFUSE to not be outraged at the harm done, and the fact that much of it could have been stopped YEARS ago.

    And just for the record, I would be EQUALLY as outraged if the Baptist Church had committed the same offenses! Do you think I would "stand by my church" if they had committed such vile acts? God forbid! And if the media was having a field day with the Baptist church, my reaction would be: "Well???? Do we expect the media to keep quiet about it?"

    I SUPPORT and LOVE the Catholic PEOPLE, but I am miffed at those in power, those who KNEW this mess was going on, and didn't lift a finger to stop it. And I am not the only one, there are MANY Catholics who are angry at the Catholic hierarchy.

    If the world hates us, it should be because of CHRIST, and NOT because of the sins of His children!! The early church was hated and despised and martyred, but NOT because the Bishops were committing vile acts!:mad:
     
  20. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Auntie,

    Here is what you said to Carly. From my point of few, she was merely pointing out that it might be wise not to fall for the spin the secular media is putting on this. What I am gathering from your posts, is that you are. Did you read the article that Wolseley posted? Did you read his post?

    The Catholic Church, members and all, does have an attitude of sorrow and outrage committed against innocent children. But what CBS reported was tainted and spun, and you bought right into it. If you want to be outraged about ALL children in this country who are abused and traumatized, do it. Find a way to funnell that outrage into something productive because arguing about it on an internet messageboard is as about as useful as spitting into the wind. AND you did not have to reply to Carly the way that you did.

    And the reason that I said is that your hatred is not what we need, is because YOU SAID--if the world hates you it is because of the crimes committed within your church. And then you added a :mad: --Making me think that you agreed.

    Michelle
     
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